PM Lee: NS for children of PRs will scare them off
October 5th, 2009 | 
Author: From our Correspondent
During a dialogue session between Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and around 200 women from various women’s organisations, participants suggested making NS mandatory for children of PRs to ensure a level playing field for all young people here. (read article here)
But PM Lee rejected this, saying that doing so would scare away potential citizens. He added that each year, several hundred children of new Singaporeans and PRs elect to serve NS.
Mr Lee’s response brought a sharp rebuttal immediately from netizens.
Frederick Wong wrote:
“I am surprised by what PM Lee said. First, if PM Lee is afraid of scaring away PRs, won’t he be afraid of scaring away current citizens? We as Singapore citizen has duties to fulfill, so as PRs.
As mentioned many times, Singapore prosperity, safe environment etc etc doesn’t come naturally, we work very hard to be here today. What happen now, many people from other countries just drop in and enjoy the fruits that we have work so hard for the past decades.
The miserably small tax incentive for NSmen cannot and never will cover the time and sacrify that we have done for our country.
One unfortunate consequence arises from PRs is that they are normally younger and can accept a much lower salary, when it comes to redundancy, older citizens who have contributed their whole life for the growth of Singapore economy are normally not favoured over younger and cheaper PRs/Immigrants. Worst thing is that new immigrants may have the same ang bao when there is surplus from our efficient governement.”
Jay added:
“I’m extremely disappointed with PM Lee’s response. This is liken to a company that pays new employees well above market rate to attact them but doesn’t treat existing employees well . Really short sighted.”
The government’s liberal immigration policies has come under intense fire from an increasing disgruntled and disillusioned citizenry in recent days.
Mr Lee was forced to make a rare concession publicly when he reassured Singaporeans that the inflow of foreigners will “slow down”. However, he was quick to reiterate that the policy will stay as Singapore need foreigners to survive.
His argument cuts no ice with Singapore males who have to sacrifice the two best years of their lives as conscripts in National Service.
Furthermore, they still have to serve thirteen years of reservist which put them at a disadvantage compared to foreigners who have no such obligations.
The relentless influx of foreigners has also led to record high prices for public housing. A recent ERA report revealed that 40 per cent of the HDB flats in the resale market are bought by PRs.
Faced with growing calls from the ground to temper the intake of foreigners, the ruling party may have little choice but to tweak the policy to appease angry citizens. However, with virtually no opposition to challenge them, there is no political pressure on them to do more to protect the rights of locals.
Related articles:
>> ERA: 40 per cent of resale flats buyers are PRs
>> Foreign talent as “clinic assistants”
>> MM Lee defends need for foreign talent
>> Sweta Agarwal proud to be Singapore PR and Indian citizen
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Posted in Editorial
I’m disgusted. We need to kick pap out before we get kicked out by prs. And I have 2 words for lhl: “FUCK YOU!!!” (pardon the expletive but I had to express my disgust and anger over what lhl had said)
I will vote against pap and will tell all my family, friends and enemies to vote against pap next election. If pap is still in power, I will emigrate.
For the sake of all Singapore Citizens and all your future male children who will be disadvantaged by being Singapore Citizens:
VOTE AGAINST PAP. VOTE AGAINST PAP. VOTE AGAINST PAP…
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I have been PR’s for long and all my friends kids are going for NS, we don’t have much choice in the matter like citizens. In fact when applying for PR its clearly stated that the second generation PR has to go for NS. The reason first generation PR’s are not sent is simply because a PR without any support system in a new country cannot sustain himself (and his family) on a the stipend.
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And this, is exactly one of the reasons why, we are ‘quitters’. Technically I’ve just decided I don’t want my kids to do NS. We’re afraid to scare off PRs, but will kindly scare away our own citizens, what great leadership.
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What Singaporeans forget or do not know is that PM is simply carrying out what he describe as his policy to replace migating Singaporeans. He propunded this when he first became PM when it was mentioned to him that many Singaporeans are migrating to Australian and elsewhere. His reponse then was that he could easily replace Singaporeans with people from other nation; in this case China. Despite this policy Singaporeans continue to give a majority vote to the PAP thereby endorsing his policy. Why are Singaporeans complaining now?
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If PM is afraid of scaring away the PR, this shows that NS a big responsibility for a person. In this case, why are single being deprived of getting the benefits of citizen while the new citizen, without serving a single day of NS, can enjoy full benefit of citizen e.g. buying new public house or receive housing grant when buying resale flat. With high HDB resale price, single with above $3000 salary, who do not receive a single cents from government when buying resale flat, are struggling with high housing loan. Single male citizen is placed below new citizen just because of marital status but their contribution to the nation is completely ignored. I am not asking for special privilege but a privilege that should be entitled to the citizen.
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Again and again we are screwed by their policies. If I don’t give my votes to the opposition I will be letting myself down and my next generation.
I will be sad if majority of Singaporeans still give their votes to PAP at the next GE.
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because it has dawned upon them that very soon, the locals will not be the majority. The largest minority might lose it status very soon.
Instead of policies that will encourage people to stay and reproduce, we’ve had policies that have made people sick and tired so that they have to leave for better pastures and policies which curb population growth.
People have come to realise that they have no stake or piece of mind in this country. Talk kena reprimand. Talk aloud kena fine, jail and who knows what.
Now the emergence of the internet and the new media offers a way of resisting propaganda that is driven through by radios, television and newspapers. Finally people can say what they want, without having to apply for permit, without being censured. So now we complain, so now we begin to share our frustrations, annoyances and REGRETS.
Now we begin to proclaim that here in PARADISE, not everything is as it is made out to be in the TV. We are not the full wholesome everyday chinese family you see in Phua Chu Kang or Under One Roof. We are struggling individuals and families who gave the government the benefit of the doubt. This is a government full of individuals who have never been poor or known what it is like to go hungry. How can they show us empathy? They can’t. They won’t. They rather not see it from our perspective.
It is time for a demostration of voting power, make them see it from our point of view. If not, they can go home to their bungalows and district 9 condos.
They have been paid well. Time for new people.
The lot of you who have already migrated to wherever, good luck in what you do. You are now citizens of another country.
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Please Vote Against PAP on Mon, 5th Oct 2009 9:08 am
No need to apologize. The majority of Singaporeans share your frustrations.
I am voting for Change. I don’t expect a leopard to change its spots.
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It was a few years ago a Taiwanese MP defamed Singapore as Nose Snort (BiSai).
I was quite upset about it but was even surprised that not even the Foreign Ministry invited the local Taiwanese representative to lim teh to voice our concerned.
I remember some local MPs says that that Taiwanese got a big mouth and should not make a big deal out of it.
I find that quite disheartening. First doing NS takes up a part of our lives. Now, when some people insult the Singaporean Nation, and our leaders brush it off. Is it that NS worth doing still? I still think so, because we are after all Singaporeans. It is not our fault being Singaporeans. The only fault is our gutless leaders. If your leaders are not willing to stand up for your rights, it is time to get someone who is willing to do so!
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People Should Not Be Afraid of the Government!
Government’s Should Be Afriad of the People!
– V
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Isn’t it mandatory already for children of PRs to go for NS? I was “scared off” Singapore because of NS. And I am no longer an SPR.
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One blunder after another. It seems that our PM is not as bright and intelligent as what his father has make him out to be the best one available. Afterall if he is that capable, he would not need so many Ministers in his PM’s Dept, on top of two nanny Ministers mentoring him.
I thought second generation PRs (the male ones) are already required to serve NS unless they revoke their permanent residence status. There is no need for them to be scared off to begin with. Is our PM not aware of this or is he just sleeping on his job ? Unless of course if they have already waived the requirement for male second generation PRs to serve NS.
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Lets face the facts here. PaPies is NOT KEEN on keeping true blue Sinkaporeans in Sinkapore for one simple and basic reason.
They are much more demanding now than ever and will most like NOT vote for the PaPies unless MAJOR CHANGES are in order.
As such, it is more ‘profitable’ for them to ‘encourage’ true blue Sinkaporeans to leave and get New Citizens to replace them, ensuring them the ‘mandate’ they needed to remain in power.
True Blue Sinkaporeans have been USED and ABUSED, thus no longer of any value to the PaPies. They need new Citizens to repeat the USED and ABUSED process.
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Migration is a global phenomenon and we have to accept it. But to be proactive over it without the consent of its citizens is something that can happen only in Singapore. Thats “Uniquely Singapore”. Our president represents the “voice of the citizen”. Since when has this communication channel ever been exercise?
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I have been vomiting non stop since I read this article.
Although, I feel a bit better now that I put HIS picture in front of me when I vomit.
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Secret on Mon, 5th Oct 2009 10:02 am
The tide is turning against the PAPies. They will be unemployed soon and will probably migrate to Australia after that.
Everyone Singaporean must do their part and vote for Change.
I just can’t imagine another term under the PAPies.
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//ric
I don’t know what is your point.
It is the mindlessness of the immigration of our politicians that we are against.
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Update :
My vomiting stopped… after I put HIS picture in the toilet bowl when I went to the loo just now.
Hope I get diarrhoea soon.
Bring on the Indian Rojak Seller from the Geylang Serai market..
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I grew up from a generation where I was really proud of Singapore. I sang national songs like Stand up for Singapore, Count on me Singapore with gusto and pride.
I did my NS from 1997-1999. I gave it my all, for a miserable $600 as an officer I really thought I was paying back to the country for giving me a secure place. I felt I was protecting people I love, my family and my country.
I made many good friends, several who are 2nd generation PRs, and they too gave it their all for their adopted homelands. We shared the pride, the camaraderie, the pain and the laughter.
Now what is this joke that my PM is saying? That PRs should not do NS?
I just feel that he is setting it up so that in future even 2nd gen PRs don’t have to do NS…. Maybe this article is biased, or his comments are not taken into context, I don’t know. But if one day all blue IC holders do not have to do NS, then I swear I will be angry enough to join the opposition.
My allegiance is to Singapore, not the party running it.
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LHL is really dumb
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//13yearshere
Do you know how many people go awol to work outside to support their families?
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Finally, it has dawned upon us that PAP has showed its true color to betray the nation.
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Basically what LHL is saying is to again confirm what Sinkaporeans have known all along, that is: True Blue Sinkaporeans are NOT preferred over Imported Sinkaporeans.
True Blue Sinkaporeans are TAKEN FOR GRANTED and compelled to do NS because they have NO CHOICE.
Sinkaporeans are NOT as important as Imported Sinkaporeans because gahment is NOT AFRAID of pissing True Blue SInkaporeans off, but IS AFRAID of turning Imported Sinkaporeans away, anyone not agreee with my analysis?
Also, LHL was forced to make a rare concession publicly when he reassured Singaporeans that the inflow of foreigners will “slow down”. However, he was quick to reiterate that the policy will stay as Singapore need foreigners to survive.
This in Hokkien terms if I remembered correctly is akin to LPPL (lan pa pa lan) which equates to: Got Say = No Say?
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First generation PRs don’t have to do NS. Fair enough, but the moment they become citizens (instant citizens) they receive the same benefits as local born and breed Sporeans. Is this fair, We, the local born have paid years of taxes, including income tax, etc, etc and our children have done NS, in short we have contributed our fair share. What have the new citizens contributed to be able to receive the same benefits?. Indeed, we local born are treated more like second class citizens. Looks like, instant citizens are the preferred class of people now. Sporeans should really open their eyes and see what is happening now and don’t vote blindly in the next GE. This is what happened when given the absolute power by the people.
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//FPC
thats exactly what I am saying. the policy is proactive in absorbing foreigners which is a mindless approached and we don’t get to chose.
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To the government, PR is not foreigner and so by converting more foreigner into PR, the intake of foreigner has indeed decreased but the actual figure will be otherwise!!!
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And this will also solve their aging population problem too.
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Folks,
1 Peanut = S$600k
If LHL = 3 Peanuts+
George W. Bush (Former President of America) = 1 Shoe thrown
1 Shoe = 10 Sandals
1 Sandals = 10 Slippers
How much you think our Ministers are worth?
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Came across this post in 3in1kopitiam.com that very much describe the situation:
Pondering PAP’s Immigration Policies with Aesop’s Story
http://forums.delphiforums.com/3in1kopitiam/messages?msg=16632.30
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Once again, the Son has proven to be an idiot and inept politician. He has again let slip of his tongue, similar to the “fix the opposition” incident. Entice and challenge him to a townhall style debate, and he will go on to disgrace himself. I look forward to the day the old man kicks the bucket and the Son has to fend for himself. He will be shred to pieces in no times.
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4 million new citizens out of a potential target for 6.5 million population for Singapore.
SO WHO CARES IF NATIVE SINGAPOREANS VOTE OPPOSITION.
Get the strategy……………….
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Looking all around us
PRs everywhere
Angmos having fun
While we are holding guns.
Have you ever wonder
Why we must serve?
Cause we have no choice
And we lan lan have to serve have to serve
Yah!
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I have heard many stories from people who say that PRs are using Singapore as a stepping stone to countries like US, UK, Europe etc. We have so many foreigners working here as clinic assistants, teachers, receptionists, bus drivers, clerks, doctors, lawyers etc. Now, how do you classifiy regular jobs like clerks, technicians, receptionists as foreign talent?
I was recently hospitalised and a local student nurse there told me that a lot of them are looking at Singapore as a stepping stone to countries like US, etc when I mentioned that I see a lot of foreigners (China, Filipinos, etc) in the hospital working as nurses, diagnostic technicians. Makes you question where the PR loyalty really lies.
I feel that the criteria for PR should be made more stringent. First generation should serve NS. They cannot get the same benefits as locally born Singaporeans who paid their debt since birth to Singapore by working hard, paying income tax throughout their lifetimes. I am a locally born Singaporean – bred, schooled here & extremely proud of my country. When I hear my foreign colleagues making remarks like Singapore no that good, too small, too cramped, too hectic, not much places to have fun in & they want to hold on to their foreign citizenship, or that Singapore is a good place as a middle ground to get where they want to go be it US, UK, Europe etc. I have the urge to tell them to get out of my country. PRship should be hard earned in order to ensure loyalty to the country they chose to reside in, even as a PR. Some of these foreigners behave badly – making noises in the early hours of the morning, loose behaviour, and (no kidding – I know of a quite few instances of this) going after married local men breaking up their marriages in the hope of marrying same guy to secure citizenship here. It sickens me when I hear of this or that happening to friends or colleagues.
NS should be made compulsory for first generation PRs as well. If that will scare them off, then they are not worthy to stay in our country. Weeds out the sincere ones from the insincere ones which will make our country a better crop of people in the long run.
The Government should spend more money training local born Singaporeans to take on the jobs that only these foreigners can supposedly take up. I see government funding going to training for locals & PRs also which makes it unfair to me since a lot of local Singaporeans cannot compete with these foreigners in terms of pay (these PRs will take lower pay anytime), whereas us local Singaporeans have to pay for our HDB flats, our kids, our rising medical costs etc. The minimum wage used to be $6 an hr many years ago. I got a shock when I found out it was only $3 an hour now as there are many filipinos, chinese etc, taking on these jobs at lower pay. My nephew tried to get a part time job after school & couldn’t! How can local Singaporeans compete? Not to mention the fact that when some of these PRs come here, their companies pay for their housing, their children’s school fees, bus transport, etc. Locals here pay for everything themselves.
I think the Government really have to rethink the criteria for PRship & how to further differentiate locals from PRs or new citizens. They say they want to integrate. The problem is this : until I sense real sincerity from new citizens or PRs in coming to my country, I do not consider them as having paid their dues to this country so I am not as accepting of them as my own locally born neighbour where we all went through thick & thin of this country together. I also do not see why PRs or new citizens should get special treatment.
I have colleagues who mention to me – Eeee….., they will never give up their citizenship & just stay on as PR here first. Singapore too crowded, housing too expensive, our Singlish is funny, they don’t really like it here, too hectic, long hours, they cannot do what they want, there’s a fine for this or that, criticizing this or that, food court dirty, singapore habits stupid or they think they are more educated or smarter than us & in meetings or groups speaks in their own language like Tagalog, Hindi etc leaving the local Singaporeans out. Over the weekends, they hang out with their own countrymen. To be fair, that may not be true of all PRs or new citizens here. Let’s just put it this way, I see rudeness. high handedness & refusal to integrate on their part as well as a sense from them that Singaporeams are inferior to them as they landed jobs Singaporeans are considered ‘not good enough’ to take on here. Also when working with them, I do not find them particularly smart (even if they hold a higher degree) or hardworking or practical so much that a Singaporean cannot do their job. Sometimes I find that these foreign managers get to managerial positions or promoted only because they know how to talk (the gift of the gab), not because they know how to work well or do the job well.
Coming back to those critical of my country. Nett, I only have one word to them – don’t like it here? Then get out & don’t ever come back. I don’t welcome you here. All you do is come here & criticise and then leave when something better in another country comes along. Don’t expect special treatment from me. I work with these people of course & give them due respect on the job on a professional level. However, we all have our own personal opinion of them as well as they do us. I am not unmagnaminous, I just get pissed off by insincere PRs or foreigners who come here using us as a stepping stone & expecting special treatment while laying out criticisms or higher than thou attitudes all the time. I actually saw an instance in a HDB food centre where an obvious foreigner holding a laptop bag made a remark about a poor elderly local auntie cleaning the table. He said so slow & stupid, cannot talk English some more. The poor elderly auntie who was in her 70s could only talk Hokkien & understand the work clean in English. I felt like smacking that educated foreigner. He was scum to me & the poor elderly woman the wronged party. I don’t see why he should be in my country harassing the elderly here.
Hey, we locals slog to make Singapore what it is today, get out if you don’t like it. And to add, when Jiawei won the Olympic medal for Singapore, I wasn’t jumping with pride. She was not a local born Singaporean and many of my friends & local colleagues felt the same way. Now, if a local born Singaporean had won, we would have held parties for days to celebrate. Given that my grandparents & my mother was foreign born, they slogged it out here in Singapore for decades & earned their dues for themselves & their descendants who continue the same. Now, that, I am extremely proud of & I openly welcome those with such sincere & honest intentions. But I am not proud of those who stop by & use us as a stepping stone until something better comes along in another country while at the same time not paying their dues to this country. Why should us locals have to pay or fight for them when they are only transients here?
Jobs are hard to come by now not to mention that livelihoods are getting more difficult for the locals here. The Government need to rethink their steps. What jobs can’t local Singaporeans take on with enough training given that Singaporeans are renowned for being extremely hardworking, honest sloggers at work? That’s just the simple opinion of a local here who’s been paying her dues here for 45 years and counting since birth.
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I wont vote for PAP. That is for sure !
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ric –
“Our president represents the “voice of the citizen”. Since when has this communication channel ever been exercise?”
please… you mean that puppet in the istana? all he does is cut ribbons, attend dinner galas and carry babies… he has no bloody power.. and is probably too busy counting his wads of cash in the comforts
yes, new citizens must do NS and ICT! Jet Li is still useful despite his age… so why let him off? Where’s the justice???
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….NS should be made compulsory for first generation PRs as well. If that will scare them off, then they are not worthy to stay in our country…..
THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT – LOGICALLY…but it won’t happen.
Do we need passengers of convenience ONLY while we slog it out hard?? The offset must be in some form of compensation for local sacrifice – LOYALTY.
That is, within 2 to 3 years, if they could NOT decide their loyalty is sharing the risks, lives and fortune for better or worse as Singaporeans, then the GOVERNMENT MUST WITHDRAW THEIR PERMANENT RESIDENCY STATUS,
We cannot as a small difficult to survive nation carry the SOLE BURDEN OF UPLIFTING THE NEEDS, DESIRES AND PREFERENCES OF PASSENGERS OF CONVENIENCE who has no commitment to share our future.
Let them go. IT IS FAIR.
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I a PR of Singapore served as a LTA in your SAF
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The govt takes Singaporeans for granted.
It takes our kindness for weakness.
The GE is the occasion and time to show the party just who is boss;
like in Japan, to quote the most recent example.
Politicians of whatever colour or feather fear only one thing -disgracing themselves at the poll.
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S’pore is a lucky location in the globe. It is born already a crossroad in the globe.PAP always claim the credit is for them.
why Our ancestor choose to come here in the early part.
because S’pore is born with luck. The PAP is lucky is not that they are capable. It A small place where capable person can handle it..Just look at the current situation without Goh keng Swee they already kadan kabor.whatever they invest all are flock. I should said a word very unlucky.Times will witness without the PAP, infuture imgrant will keep comming to this small RED DOT. Don’t need the PaP to import them in.
The PAP has made a grivence mistake by killing this own population “The Policy Stop AT Two”. 1/2 million of the innocent & defencless fetus has been murder.This is what we face todays problem.
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LHL, you are scaring us off. You, are the joke of Singapore.
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2nd Gen PR descendants will not get to keep citizenship or get citizenship if they do not serve NS. Its the case with me so many years ago, its the same now. Only way for me to avoid it back then was to go and study in Malaysia.
As for 1st gen PRs. I think we can give them an option. Serve in the Reserves (which will replace our current NSmen program) and get your application to citizenship fast tracked. We screen applicants already before giving them residency status but to qualify for service in the Reserves another screening will take place. PES C9L2s will not be taken in unless they possess highly desirable skills required in the SAF. It is best that those who have served in the armies of their home nations are not allowed entry to the Reserves. To differentiate, the normal application process will take longer than currently so that residents are encouraged to join the Reserves. (USA uses this system whereby they offer green cards to illegal immigrants who volunteer to join their army. They just need to survive one course of active duty)
What will the Reserve program be like?
In a sense its still Reservist. The difference is in the details. All NSF will automatically become a Reserve service man. For those in the active units, they will have to book time slots to serve their unit in various capacities. Quarterly training camps will be held conducted by trainers. All service man will have to complete a 10 day block and total of 20 days per annum. Annual IPPT will count as 1 day. RT excluded.
Unit assessment for active units will remain the same.
Current PDF formations will have to be fine tuned. NSFs who join PDF formations will have to complete crash courses once notified. Reserve trainers will conduct training more regularly for PDF formations which any NSmen can sign up to. These training sessions will be conducted after hours and on some occasions take up to half a day. NSmen will have to tick off these sessions or have to do a full block of training. So the choice is really up to the individual, block or spread out the fulfillment of their obligation.
Training camps will be have slots open for selection which a poll will take place. As a bonus servicemen who attend camps will clock in bonus days for the work year. Officers and commanders will have to fulfill more days as required of them.
Manning and Mobilization remains the same.
This should turn reservist into a part time job for all NSmen. its not totally own time own target as unit cohesiveness needs to be preserved. As it is now, SAF spends far too much time handling admin and other stuff for Reservist units who come and go from time to time. Turning the NSmen into proper Reserve servicemen will go a long way in transforming our army into a truly 3rd gen army.
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What business do a bunch of women have suggesting some other men do or not do NS? None of those women had to do NS. Why not they suggest themselves first?
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From what I gather thus far as Singaporeans we have a lot of things to say and no where to voice it. Kudos to temasekreview for putting up these and many other concerns.
I propose to take a new stand on things. Instead of just griping let’s collect our thoughts and put them into active discourses between citizenry and government. For all the good it may do (or be ignored) it at least does not paint us as gripers.
I propose we gather our thoughts, compile a list of grievances and corresponding suggestions. We can then allocate letter submissions to NMPs. Send out to local and foreign press to ensure that people know what we’re doing.
We then jsut need to sit back relax and wait for the inevitable – proof of ignorance of the people by the government and no where for the to hide. (Unless of course, a well dressed officer – who had to take a scholarship to better himself and thus tie his fate to the government – arrives at our doorsteps to request our dissident selves to reside as guests at the cells).
What say you?
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“We then jsut need to sit back relax and wait for the inevitable – proof of ignorance of the people by the government and no where for the to hide.”
I think you haven’t been online long enough,or you just didn’t have time to visit all other government portals. The results of your suggestions will be received in 3 standard ways by them.
1. totally ignored
2. A standardised reply will be given, usually according to them it’s for the greater good
3. You don’t even get to actually communicate with them, they’ll just delete your threads, burn your letters and all.
So if you ask, what says me? I say people have been there, done that.
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im utterly sick of PAP and its total disconnection with the people that matters.. people whom vote them into power.. the SINGAPOREANS. im a singaporean born and bred here. my father came from malaysia.. he is singaporean now. NEVER IN MY LIFE i heard he was going to be scared off.. probably my mother worry a bit, my gf then, myself but even as a young man having live a fairly comfortable or a somewhat papmpered life, i still go through it without complaints(ok we did complained, but speaking for myself and lot of my peers, army life is never easy and thats also the “fun” part of it, we suffer we whined we get on with it, its part of life.. i bet anyone will tell u NS is nothing looking back..)
this kind of words coming from an ex-general in our army whom is our leadernow is a disappointment whatever his reasoning and elitist’s i know better view. i had to go for my reservist last year and again this work year. but was i scare off?? hell yes for me and for many of the guys out there.. so im going to run away from singapore?? no..
i am going to make my vote count(if i get the chance that is.. saddest part of our democracy with the walkovers and GRC and disorganised opposition.. sigh.. come on..please put on a good team.. i will give them a chance to scare the men in white till their face whte white)
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He sounded like someone trying to catch birds on tree. He has forgotten his existing stock is fleeing. Cool!
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Daniel on Mon, 5th Oct 2009 5:39 pm
“What business do a bunch of women have suggesting some other men do or not do NS? None of those women had to do NS. Why not they suggest themselves first?”
Even the women are not as myopic and selfish as you. I’m sure the women fully realise how their men and children will be disadvantaged by unfair policies.
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Just wondering..
How safe will we feel if PRs were defending the motherland?
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PM LEE sucks big time. i wasted 2 years of my prime and there he is sucking up to PRs and secretly mocking us male citizens who have served NS and now serve reservist. Total waste of time.
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Hey, didn’t he(or some other senior pappy minister) say that the (second generation) children of PRs will serve NS? Now he makes a completely opposite claim. How much can you trust him?
My guess is: elections are around the corner, the government hopes to lure more foreigners to take the blue/pink IC. This foreigners issue will be made the hot ‘pivot’ topic in the coming GE. Anyone who speaks out against the influx of foreigners will be shamed, ridiculed and demonised.
Another thing about NS: I serve my cycles, take my IPPTs and attend my mobs, but if Singapore really needs to be defended, I will NOT give a rat’s ass – I will desert. Most Singaporean men TOLERATE NS because it’s an annual paid leave sponsored by taxpayers’ money, also you get to cosplay as soldiers and perhaps get to travel. Some guys also like to meet up with old friends/make new friends for networking, or use NS as a convenient excuse to engage in some naughty acts behind the wife’s back.
Patriotism at the expense of my life and limb? No thanks. Find another sucker to be your cannon fodder, thank you very much. Your emotional propaganda of ‘Total Defence’ and National Education fails to stir me. I will not shed blood for Singapore Inc.
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//kknd
All this Total Defense BS you can ignore. But when the crunch comes, I will still do it for my fellow Singaporeans; but not at the expense of these shallow leaders and generals.
You have to differentiate the ruling party and the government. Right now, they are fused together at the hip.
They don’t inspire me. But I do care about other Singaporeans. It is just that you need to change the ruling party, that’s all. They had their chance for more than 40 years. It’s time for others to make their mark and shine.
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Insult to NS
Why should you care about other Singaporean while other Singaporean don’t care for you.
After all, the existence of a Strong Party+Government is the result of the ignorance and complacency of the Singaporean population.
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Does PM Lee, and many other Singaporeans realise, that rights, as provided by the Constitution, and responsibilities, such as NS, is not their’s to give or take away?
A Singaporean is a Singaporean is a Singaporean. One does NS and another doesn’t? What a dumb PM you’ve got. Poor Singapore. If you don’t vote them out, you’ve got yourselves to blame.
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Both insult and PRC are right in different viewpoints. We need to change the leaders and the reason why we are trapped in this unhappy situation is because of “ignorance and complacency of our population.”
We need to wake up from this slumber. Time to change and give new blood the opportunity to “make their mark and shine.”
ABSOLUTELY.
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I think we should abolish NS completely instead of demanding that all PRs whether 1st generation, 2nd generation or whatever.
I completed my reservist cycles last year. NS is becoming more and more a big joke to me when you sit back and reflect on it. Who are we serving really. If the ministers’ pay should be comparable to market rate then why shouldn’t citizens serving NS be paid at market rate also?
PAP, I am really tired of all the bullshits that you are saying.
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Well done LHL. Another classic case of foot in mouth disease! Or is it just pure arrogance bred from pedigree and more than 40yrs of uninterrupted PAP rule?
So now Singaporeans born n bred have to fight ‘Foreign No Talents’ for jobs and we got to fight to protect their pasty white @r$e$ too!?!?!? What MAN is afraid of NS!? I was proud to serve my NS side by side with 2 British boys in 1984 becos their PR fathers recognised that it was the responsible thing for their sons to serve beside n integrate with Singaporeans. And their mothers were no less supportive!
Hence my argument would be that if NS scares them off, then it would be the perfect filter for Singapore. We dont need free loaders!
It’s time for the PM to grow up!
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Sinkaporeans must understand that whatever disputable measures taken now by the PaPies are desperate measures in a desperate time to BUY VOTES!. Election is around the corner and dissenting voices from True Blue Sinkaporeans are rising. More votes will swing towards the Oppositon and this is something the PaPies cannot afford, considering that they actually have only 60% of mandate from the previous elections, on average. A vote swing of another 10% or so will set them way back, something they will deperately want to avoid.
The PaPies is thus ‘importing’ voters who will be loyal to them to perk up the mandate to enable them to remain in power and retain control.
Imagine 1/3 of the population are already ‘Imported’ Citizens loyal to the PaPies and there are plans to increase it by 100,000 each year. Assuming the steady influx is kept, for every 4 years of mandate the PaPies gets, more Sinkaporeans will leave and 1/4 of a MILLION ‘Imported’ Citizens or PaPies Loyalist will be added to their camp.
Multiple that by another 2 to 4 terms and Sinkapore will be literally WHOLLY OWNED by ‘Imported’ Citizens while Sinkaporeans will be a minority in their motherland, with NO VOICE and NO RIGHTS whatsoever to speak of.
Sinkaporeans MUST WAKE UP NOW and vote WHOEVER the Opposition fielded into Parliment NOW without any further delay or the term Lesser Mortals will be an understatement, come 2 terms later if the PaPies remains unchecked and unaccountable.
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The problem is they know that singaporeans cannot do anything! They can treat singaporeans as third class, give their jobs to foreigners, make N.S compulsory while, at the same time kow tow to foreigners. Yet sinkaporeans will only make some ‘fire cracker’ noise and at the next elections, quietly vote for PAP. No one will respect singaporeans, not even foreigners, and when I say foreigners, I mean P.R. as well, until they learn to stand up for themselves and show that during elections. Sillyporeans, when we serve N.S. what are we training for? 2 years of the best times of our lives, 18 to 20 years old, stolen for what? What are we trained for? To be sheepdogs? And worst of all is the continuing reservist training….If they make N.S. voluntary, at least we can live with it!
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They should make N.S and reservist voluntary for all- citizens, P.R and foreigners. Then we are all on the same level playing field. Singaporeans will not feel so much resentment and anger.
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singaporeans think about it, think of the sacrifices made for the defence of singapore in the name of NS. men whom sweat and endure the training. men whom lost their lives even doing so. families, wives, girlfriends, children, love ones too with their concern, support, being away etc. companies and employees who put in the hard work to accomondate the reservist, MOB, IPPT, RT. career opportunities lost and put on hold, precious time for love ones deprived, travel plans, occasions, relationships, marriages, injuries, BS treatment n many more r prices we paid one way or another for everyone involved in the name of NS FOR SINGAPORE had been made in vain. save the propaganda and forget it all lah. this talk made a fool of singaporeans and what we sacrificed. we believe(or maybe didnt) all the BS but we did our part( everyone whom put their effort from 200% to 1 % regardless had in ways big or small, direct or indirectly, PLAYED THE BIGGEST PART for what SAF is today. DEFENCE of one’s nation is not a joke however one is disillusioned and disappointed by the kind of leadership, treatment, wayang and what have you that we see in our time in NS, still we endured but a leader blurting such comments is way out of line and COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH with our feelings and made a fool of all singaporeans.
morale of soldiers is number one for any army, now for not “scaring off” these people, you are “slapping the faces” of the soldiers past, present and future.
so its going to scare off some potential immigrants? forget them then its that pure and simple.
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we need to make our voices heard. the govt should be afraid of its people and not the other way around (just to second the person who made a reference to V for Vendetta earlier)!
for the sake of all singaporeans, please educate your “still sleeping” friends. it’s not too late. there CAN be life without PAP.
we have to keep trying to vote PAP out as the ruling power and install a more democratic and diverse govt. it is a way to take what is ours back.
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One of his not-so-bright moments eh? I do think that National Service is necessary, but it is also possible to make it way less painful than it is currently.
Off the cuff, I can think of cutting down on RT duration as the first important way to help. Who do you think goes for RT? Those who can’t pass their IPPT, of course! However, where RT generally succeeds in helping some people pass their next IPPT, others simply cannot pass it, no matter what.
I suggest that PTIs identify these NSmen and push them straight into IPT instead of punishing them for something they’re not good at.
There should be more pronounced benefits to being a citizen, such as discounted admission charges for local attractions, priority clearance at checkpoints, bonus prizes awarded to citizens only during government-organised competitions, and special privileges for senior citizens, such as priority queues, train cabins reserved for Singaporeans in their old age, etc.
If the government can demonstrate that they have the capability to provide for its citizens, I don’t believe we would have problems attracting PRs to swap their blue ICs for pink ICs.
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The whole problem is—IF they didn’t come up with this funny STOP AT 2 policy 30 years ago, we would have MORE people doing NS. AND we wouldn’t be complaining about PRs.
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NS serves a few purposes –
1. To create an appearance of a military power in SEA.
2. To create a subservient male population which is unlikely to revolt against the ruling regime. (which is more likely the primary purpose today)
It is long overdue for and overhaul of the NS system in favor of setting up a professional army.
To support the professional army, foreigners and PRs should pay a defence tax (say 3-5% of their income), as well as having their current subsidies removed/reduced. Reservist duties for Singaporeans should be cut by at least half.
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“NS for Citizens will scare them off!”
i served national service and it was a horrible experience, i dun want my son to go through the same shit that i did, so i am migrating to another country.
goodbye and good riddance, singapore!
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Whether NS is really necessary or not should be subject to a study instead of using anecdotal evidence. NS is not for training militia or cannon fodder, such strategies are very antiquated. It should be for training VOLUNTEER reservists (with the same good benefits given by other countries) to the same level and full access to equipment as the regular army, who are expected to maintain the same combat readiness.
“i dun want my son to go through the same shit that i did, so i am migrating to another country.”
Or you could vote/campaign for a party that will abolish MANDATORY NS. But it is very disheartening to learn that some of the opposition is very inflexible on continuing MANDATORY NS.
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