Alex Tan issues open challenge to YPAP to debate with him at Speaker’s Corner
December 14th, 2009 | 
Author: Written by Our Correspondent
Project Engineer Mr Alex Tan, who was banned from the YPAP Facebook for his outspoken views, had just issued an open challenge to the YPAP to have a public debate with him at Speaker’s Corner on his blog.
He did not elaborate on the topics for the debate in the short blog entry which ended by asking YPAP members to contact him.
Mr Tan first make the headlines last Friday for asking difficult and sensitive questions during a YPAP forum which prompted a fellow participant to challenge him to leave Singapore is he is so “disenchanted” with it.
Yesterday, the Sunday Times published an article on him being banned from YPAP Facebook ostensibly for indulging in “name-calling and vulgarities”.
PAP MP and YPAP Vice-Chairman Mr Zaqy Mohamad quickly jumped to the defence of YPAP saying that they would not banned netizens for posting “anti-establishment” views on its Facebook forum.
Mr Tan revealed that it was a YPAP member who sparked off the flame war by divulging personal details about him including his brief detention during National Service for blogging about the number of deaths in the SAF since 2000.
The information is supposed to be confidential. It is not known how the YPAP member got his/her hands on it and if it is legal for him/her to post it in the public domain.
Since the news broke out, the YPAP had received numerous brickbats from netizens with many lampooning it for following the “example” of its “seniors” in a snide reference to PAP leaders who often resort to character assassination to destroy their political opponents.
Mr Tan was applauded as a “hero” who dares to take on the YPAP all on its own.
It remains to be seen whether the YPAP will accept Mr Tan’s invitation for a public debate at Speaker’s Corner. It will surely be an eye-opener for Singaporeans.
Copyright © The Temasek Review, 2009
Related articles:
1. YPAP member slammed by netizens for revealing critic’s detention record
2. YPAP member resorts to smearing critic’s character to silence him
3. PAP MP De Souza: More robust debate from PAP than opposition MPs
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Why challenge the dogs?
Go take on the masters.
Pap ppl all are chicken, sure dare not accept challenge to a debate.Dr Chee once challenged George Yeo to a debate but the minister chicken out.Very shameful of pap.So many MPs enter by backdoor, no talent at all, how to have quality debate. Very shameful !!!
have you seen pap accept public debate with opposition?
Wonder if they have the balls to take up the challenge. They will be wetting their pants. They only dare to do under ‘controlled’ conditions like the TV station.
But they will tell you they are the best!
going the way of CSJ? alex tan, although alot of people share the same views as you, i’m not sure if this is the way of doing it. channel your energies the right way.
@Moe Gan Thai – are you sure that BG George Yeo did not take up the debate. It is better you find out the fact.
It is actually good that Dr. Chee gone thru what he had gone thru, this will mold him to be a real leader and prepare him to be one. A humbled person makes a greater leader.
Debate at Hong Lim is better than on TV, Alex is making the right move. At least at Hong Lim Park, he gets the protection of the citizen. With MSM, he probably be bullied and finish off on the TV set.
Alex don’t give up, we want them to tell the truth nothing but the truth. What you had done is nothing disgraceful yet they place you in detention, we know who is wrong and who is right. You are standing on the side of justice and you will prevail.
CitizenofSG will support you all the way.
I can’t imagine the YPAP will have the balls to take him on… they needed a team online just to handle one Alex… on their fb, then ban him when they cannot handle him or “fix” him.
Mind you, Alex is not anonymous.. why ban him.. let the people see Alex for what he is, if they claim that he is supposedly name calling and epousing vulgarities.
Alex is transparent.. all the details about him is in his fb… not like the rest who hides behind generality.
Aiyoh! Even you have a very meaningful debate with the miw or their puppets at the speaker corner but, will the main-street-men get the chance to view and listen to all the arguments? Will the state-media air the debate at the speaker corner? Don’t waste yours valuable time, I opine that even spending time with the prostitute will be more productive and meaningful than spending your precious and valuable time with this idiotic-imbecile, my dear Alex tan!!!
Go Alex Go.You have our support. Singapore needs courageous young man like you to speak up and take on the Papies.
If Papies take up your challenge to debate at HL, do let us know. We will be there to cheer you.
People like alex really need our support to keep the spirit on going. SG need more people like him. I will definely be there at honglim if they dare to take on the challenge. I like to see the so called best talents at work. Pls prove me wrong best talents.
Alex needs to list down each and every question and those areas to be debated. He also needs to provide a list with possible or reasonable answers to those topics to be debated on and a copy to be given b4 hand for preparation.
And a moderator will be appointed to select specific subjects with the other party’s approval.
Then, Alex needs to wait for their reply.
Aiyo smalfly, don’t stop Alex from doing big thing that is going to rock the nation. He is taking on the young PAP. Do you think that is a small thing? Anyway smallfry don’t know what is big thing. LOL….
You and I are cowards hiding behind a keyboard with no face to look the people in the eye. We are all small fly. To Alex I applause, keep on going, the nation need people like you who is willing to speak up without fear. Don’t be like us all small fly trying to act big in disguise.
Young man, look behind you, you could be followed, and your flat is under surveillance. They will trace your family tree to look for weakness. How well have you done for your PSLE, “O” level and “A” level etc.? They may even go as far as making calls to your employer. Who is your banker financing your flat or car loan?
@peter su – all these they probably already know with a click of a mouse. If anyone who wish to stand against the YPAP need to think about this and the fear of going against the PAP then all of us will just come online and type nonsense and do nothing.
We will be fallen into the trap of the PAP if forever we are afraid. By telling others to be afraid you are helping PAP to fulfill their wishes. Fear is what they thrive on against their enemy.
Don’t talk with your heart, just talk smart and say what they want you to say and not what you wanna say. Should we continue to live our lives like this just because we are fearful. Yes you may continue to live like a tortoise but please don’t tell others to be one.
If everyone of us, cast away our fear and fight for our right, the day will come when the sun will rise.
Singaporeans who care about this country and future generations must educate our youth the cosy comfort dangers of present material pursuits and the illusions of plenty seen in current conspicuous consumption – thanks to the sacrifices and savings of the previous generation.
But that would NOT last. THE FUTURE IS MORE IMPORTANT. Far too many in the younger generation are clueless of politics around them. Few among internet savvy ever read global news and world events. In crisis, a lot will be drowned in a tumultous sea of total ignorance.
And this country is heading for disaster. The older generation are mentally deceased from decades of brainwashing even if they are walking around – mostly do not even surf the net. MSM and those vested political interests are feeding poison to society.
Those of us keenly aware of the dangers ahead must spread the message.
IT IS TIME FOR CHANGE.
The Art of War
Quotations from translations of the book The Art of War (6th century BC)
兵者，詭道也。故能而示之不能，用而示之不用，近而示之遠，遠而示之近，
All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
=======================================================
//citizenofSG on Mon, 14th Dec 2009 7:03 pm
I don’t like to see an intelligent young man being brutally executed.
//Change must come on Mon, 14th Dec 2009 7:55 pm
Agreed. The future looks bleak if nothing is being done now.
The PAP clinging on tightly to their power and allowing the social fabric and resentment to deteriorate with little concern. And sit on millions in their pillows.
Many of us can feel the wind of change is near. Lets Kick them out.
What this episode shows clearly is that even a NOBODY like Mr Tan can anytime take on A TEAM at YPAP and beat them flat. It also goes to show the kind of USELESS and BALLsLESS shit so-called ‘leaders’ which Sinkaporeans have been feeding millions for the past decades or so.
It would be a ‘miracle’ if the YPAP would take Mr Tan up on his offer, the chances of that happenning is as slim as a 1,000,000 to 1.
The last time that one of the LEADERS from the PaPies took up an open debate challenge, it was MM Lee against Francis Seow at the Parlimentary Select Committee and ended with MM Lee being totally torn to shreds.
MM Lee had to resort to using the ISD to save his face, thus Operation Spectrum came into being which caushed the arrest of Francis Seow.
ANYONE from the PaPies CANNOT and WILL NOT take up any challenge to an open debate if they cannot control the questions or topic for the most obvious of reason. There’s too much dirt under the carpet and tons of questions which cannot be answered in PUBLIC.
Remember the famous question from Dr Chee: Where’s our money?
In my opinion, Mr Tan is ALREADY clearly the victor and the open debate is no longer needed. As one reader crudely puts it, if it took the YPAP a whole team and the BAN function to handle a lone Mr Tan, then even if they field the 2 MPs running the site together with all the members in YPAP, they (YPAP) won’t even last minutes.
@citizenofSG who said: are you sure that BG George Yeo did not take up the debate. It is better you find out the fact.
My counter question: ARE YOU SURE that BG Yeo did take up the challenge yo an OPEN DEBATE with Dr Chee? If indeed he did, what happened, where was the venue and date, time?
Be cool and collected. Think through your points and rebuttals. Proud to have someone like you in our midst. Truth will prevail. Go for it. If its on- which I doubt very much because these guys simply have no guts – I’ll definitely be there.
If this is the kind of YPAP members they can produce and the PAP continues to rule by default, Singapore is doomed.
The simple question is, did he really indulge in “name-calling and vulgarities”. If he did, then I do not see why his banning was wrong.
Look at CSJ, those who deliberately broke the rules to proof they are right are never right.
@Sinkapore –
In 1996, the both had cross sword in a select committee hearing, it was shown over TV. George Yeo and Dr. Chee had a TV telecast debate and subsequently Dr. Chee was called a lair and got into trouble.
I did not realize recently Dr. Chee asked George Yeo for an online debate.
However it does go to say that PAP is not afraid of debating in MSM but of course online debate is unlikely to materialize. We all know why.
For details perhaps you can go to media corps.
Debating at Hong Lim Park, there should not be a problem so long as it is not MSM. In full view of the public, the PAP wont dare to do anything. Moreover so many of us will be there, what the heck can those YPAP do. TR can give live reporting, It will be very interesting.
我不怕，杀了一个我，还有千千万万个我 !
Peter Su,
“I don’t like to see an intelligent young man being brutally executed.”
Precisely, Singapore is not North Korea or Myanmar, Singaporeans do not need to go for revolution. Absolutely no reason for Singaporeans to support any confrontational approach.
Many Singaporeans still have a decent job, decent house, decent family – decent life. PAP still has 66% of the votes.
If Alex has aspiration to be a politician, then he must know the history of these people: JBJ, Dr Chee, and Anwar Ibrahim.
Anwar Ibrahim made a mistake in 1998; and repeated the same mistake again after he was being released from jail. Look at what is going to happen to him now.
@citizenofSG, I was referring to his recent challenge, sorry if I did not make myself clear on this.
@Greatest Asia, please stop your bullshit and scare tactics. Sinkapore will not shoot Alex Tan nor will he be arrested by the ISD as long as he sticks to the debate and state facts.
Unless Alex Tan is inciting a revolt or an overthrow of government, the system is not going to touch him for sure. It would be sttttttpid for the PaPies to shoot Alex Tan now for the most obvious of reason, agree you not?
If everyone in Sinkapore is as selfish and scared as you, Sinkapore might as well be destroyed in an earthquake or sink cause I see hopeless future Sinkapore has.
@ric who said: Look at CSJ, those who deliberately broke the rules to proof they are right are never right.
You are sadly mistaken, Dr Chee did NOT break any rules because the rules is legally illegal anyway. There was NO WAY he could have been granted a permit to speak because the Police NEVER issue permit to Opposition Parties for such events.
Its like REQUIRING you BY LAW to display a parking coupon when you park your car anywhere and you cah apply for such coupon at any Police Station but the Police NEVER approve ANY application.
Sinkapore,
You think Alex is ready to debate with those PAP dogs?
Personally, I think Alex is a blundering hothead. If we want to help him – then help him to grow up.
Any scientific proof, data, or statistics that he can offer to corroborate his statements?
What he want to debate about?
If the Ypap member who had the info about Mr Alex’s detention, then should invoke the Official Secret act against the Ypap member for leaking “State Secrets” to the Internet.
PAP seems to be very good at side-stepping issues. I doubt these MPs that ride on the coat-tails of a heavyweight minister, via the GRC system, dare to take up a challenge for an open debate. Even if they dare, I don’t think they are competent enough for a 1-to-1 debate.
“a fellow participant to challenge him to leave Singapore is he is so “disenchanted” with it. ”
Oh, if i am not wrong some of our Ministy’s son and daughter also quiter ..
Greatest Asia on Mon, 14th Dec 2009 11:46 pm
“If we want to help him – then help him to grow up.”
and
Greatest Asia on Mon, 14th Dec 2009 3:15 pm
“Why challenge the dogs?
Go take on the masters.”
ARE YOU FARTING INTO YOUR OWN MOUTH, Greatest Asia, just like Elfred habitually does?
Unlike Alex who have been challenging politics,I have been challenging my school on countless occasion these past years to date. Lesser in depth and skill, but is still a challenge none the less.
With fingers burnt on countless occasion (Lim kopi session with XXX, YYY, ZZZ and the principal), but what motivates me despites this shortcoming is the sole motivation of improving the system. And I’m sure Alex has the same sentinent as me.
Unfortunately we are in a society that look down on individuals like us. But as long as your conscious is clear (Which I know, I am), then to hell with what they think. Hit them at where it hurts the most!
Anthony Tan
(It’s purely a coincidence that we have the same surname)
//BarelyAlive
There is no doubt: all the pigs cannot debate.
They messed up the system after the 1st generation did it well and they are not motivated to make things better here.
They are just in for the free monies.
@Greatest Asia, ready or not is irrelevant. Here we have someone who is not happy with the system and is willing to take these ‘leaders by name’ on, so let him be.
Sometimes an arguement need not be absed on stats but reasoning, depending on the topic, of course.
We all grow up having taken fall many a time, but we stood up and move on, making us more mature.
Alex may not be prepared statistically but mentally, I think he is. Besides, how worst can he get if he losses the debate, agree? No one is born to win all the time, that includes the PaPies s0-called elites. He certainly won’t get shot in the head or detained under the ISA, ya?
It would also be interesting to note how ‘competant and prepared’ these so-called elites from the PaPies are against a nobody like Alex Tan on topics which doesn’t involve statistics.
Whatever the outcome, Alex is already a winner. He has by his action (rash or otherwise) put many Sinkaporeans to shame, Sinkaporeans who only talk cock and sing song behind a computer monitor.
Alex loves this country. He feels so passionately that if PAP wins again in the coming election, he wants to leave Sg for good. He is going around and see if he can join any opposition or be an opposition himself.
For a young man to aspire to be a leader, he must first make a name for himself. If he wins the debate, he name will be big real big. Even if he lose the debate, his name will be big real big.
If he joins an opposition party and get elected because his name is big, he can win big.
What a calculated gamble, you who choose to be a coward can never be rewarded with high MP’s allowance which is actually quite easy if you join the opposition now. From the feeling of the ground, you have more than half a chance to win.
Alex is now standing on a much higher ground. Good challenge. The timing is right to draw them out to the open.
As usual, the YPAP have no guts and none will take the challenge. Its too risky and too dangerous to be exposed in the open.
@XIIIblackcat on Tue, 15th Dec 2009 1:55 am
Your comment reminds me of an incident i had back in NUS, where i challenged the Korean lecturer on his explanation for a particular question. Unable to give me a satisfactory answer he finally brushed me off by saying “it’s correct because the textbook says so”.
Shocking.
When those that purport to teach us willing limit their own horizons to textbooks, it is no surprise that those they dare to step outside those boundaries are vilified and ostracized.
@fpc who said: They are just in for the free monies.
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE. One generation of anyone in the family being in the PaPies’s camp, SEVERAL generations can saw off their legs and enjoy life.
If ANY MPs DARE SAY they are not in it for the money, then let them walk the talk and donate 50% of their pay to charity for a year, I DIE DIE will advocate all my friends and convince Sinkaporeans to vote for that MP!
If the YPap r going to be our future leaders…….its scary!!
Alex tan needs some counselling. His past is haunting him and slowing poisoning him. pardon this child for he has been thru some really shit times
It is wealth of an experience for the youth of today to be able to come together to debate about the country. Don’t call our youth apathetic or does not care about our country, in fact they are far better than their elder.
YPAP should be exposed to democratic debates to be prepared for the future. They should take this opportunity to show Singapore the type of youth that is going into politics. These kids are not riding coattails. After all it is just a debate, the outcome is pretty healthy for both parties. Singapore as a whole will mature and grow.
In the past, the elders always tell us to stay away from politics for our own good, frankly now I don’t appreciate because the fear they instilled in us has made us run away for too long leaving the PAP to dominate always. Politics is about sacrifice, at the end of the day you can hold your head up high. JBJ, CST, LTK, TLH, CSJ and so forth have all sacrifice their lives for us, should they have any regrets or do you want them to fear and go to hide. People are singing the name of JBJ even after his depart. This is something money cannot buy. Those who made billion by deceiving the people will also one day die, they better send a guard 24/7 to look after their graves to avoid being trampled.
However if the young are too cocky, then they will have to learn the hard way but if they are given the chance to grow through the mill and understand more about political lives, Singapore will mature and grow to become a true democracy. If you are too scared of your child to get hurt in sports, you lock him up in the home, he will one day die in the army during training because his body is not up to the straining. Please Singaporean be ready to engulf our child with our body to protect them but don’t restrict them as a child forever. Those who learn to walk must experience falling and it is part of growing up.
Sinkapore,
Well, if majority of the people supported this event and if any of those dogs dare to take up the challenge – then why not give it a try – probably we have reached the point that such debate or confrontation is unavoidable.
I hope that Alex is well prepared and will not act like a hothead, otherwise, it will only benefit those dogs.
Like Alex most Singaporeans young and old smart or ordinary are passionate and truly love our country.The system is in place whether its good bad or ugly it had serve us well initially.
Today its a borderless world and economy, the young are exposed to subjects which during the early years were damned as yellow culture.PAP,Govt. and the people of Singapore are almost considered as synonymous by some and I disagree with that totally.In order to rally for a change or reform one must understand that the system is strongly entrenched. The PAP/Govt. war chest and network is second to non and superior to any existing,new or young oppositions,the task is indeed uphill but than the journey of a thousand miles begin with the first step.
What Singapore lacks is a strong opposition willing to agree to disagree and yet can attract the passive young and old on their side.
Politics in the Singapore context is an attractive career for those looking for instant reward a term of 3 to 5 years can net a pretty good nest egg even as an MP or a totally self sacrificing thankless job where your privacy and personal life is open for easy target.
How do we distinguish the real from the opportunist/mavericks and attention seekers???? that is the tough call for the passive and fence sitting Singaporeans +- 40% or maybe more base on the elderly who still believe PAP is their savior and those who succeed through the system not counting the new citizens who had the good life since 1965 to present.
Good luck to all seeking a true calling and I wish them well.( my personal opinion with no affiliation to any parties,sorry if you disagree )
@ citizenofSG on Tue, 15th Dec 2009 10:06 am
Great post.
The kind of hostile mindset manifested in YPAP is very dangerous when we are a little red dot surrounded by green seas.
We would all be drowned, completely overwhelmed, if unthinking thug-like mentality inhabited within PAP brings sustained warfare with our neighbours in the future.
If PAP do NOT censured their own hotheads now, it speaks volume of their inability to govern with cool nerves and screen out the undesirables within their rank.
Is this what we want of leadership – hostile hotheads leading us into unwanted confrontations with neighbours in the future?.
i think alex can speak up boldly as he deems fit but beware not to cross the line as there are many watchdogs around. they are dogs because they will listen and respond to the master(s).
we really need people like alex to speak up. if he is to speak in speakers corner, please inform us and i will be there for the headcount . this is just to show our frustration over the years of bondage.
There will only be 3 results
1. PAP Do NOT RESPOND AT ALL – Because PAP has never done any debate before, so really the next logicial question is ” what will Alex do next?”
2. PAP says Yes – this is a big thing, because they will be treading into unchartered waters.
I do not think they will for a very very simple reason – If they win, this will be what everyone expects, there is no glory. If they looses, they will open an Pandora’s Box, which they will have no idea how to close.
Worst case scenario for YPAP (best case for all opposition) is that PAP totally crush Alex in pubic (for all singaporeans to see) and this will generate sympathy from everyone and PAP will be seen as a communistic bully.
3. PAP says NO – saying NO is also a response….this will generate a buzz (at least on the on line world) – why do they say no? what will it takes for PAP to debate? what is so wrong about debates?
From my point of view – scenario 2 is best – but also the point is not Alex Tan – I think that from now, all Singaporeans will wonder “What is a debate?” Why have a Debate” or better yet….
“WHY NOT HAVE A DEBATE” ? ? ?
Voices like these will propel other Singaporeans to support Opposition Parties like Reform, SDP and Workers’ to start to challenge for debates…
Let’s bring down the veil of secrecy, let’s debate policies, lets have alternative voice and check and balances.
There are many, many ways to skin a cat….:-)
@坡仔哥哥, I absolutely agree with you that politics should be brought into the open and Sinkaporeans should be made aware that Sinkapore does NOT belong to the famiLEE nor is Sinkapore = PaPies.
With regards to the challenge by Alex, from experience and past records, the most likely answer is Option 1, the YPAPies will NOT respond and will just keep their mouth shut.
Bearing in mind that GE is very very near, only 6 months away, nothing is going to happen to Alex, well at least not after the GE, so he is safe for now.
Nowadays, ISA is no longer used for people like Alex. Instead, if Alex requires ‘fixing’, it would most probably be the Polize doing the job, AGC asking for remand in IMH by reason of ‘unsound mind’ and the Kangaroos ordering to be done. Alex will probably be there for decades with the keys to his ‘room’ conveniently stashed somewhere in Mr Prataman’s closet.
Another less restrictive outcome would be for the YPAPies to continue to expose Alex’s whatever and utilise the Shitty Times to tear Alex to pieces. Alex, with no recourse whatsoever will remain LAN LAN and many moons later, Sinkaporeans will conveniently forget abut Alex and move on.
Dear everyone,
I invite you to http://hockrong.blogspot.com to find out the true story behind all the action at the Young PAP Network Facebook Group over the past few months involving Mr Alex Tan.
Share your views on whether Mr Alex Tan should be taken seriously or not. Do you agree with the way he was writing in the Young PAP Network Facebook Group and Young PAP Fan Page?
Thank you and regards.
Two old Chinese saying…the clouds are ever-changing.
How to catch a sparrow with eyes blindfolded?