Singaporean wants PRs to be banned from selling HDB flats at a profit
January 19th, 2010 | 
Author: Written by Our Correspondent
An irate Singaporean by the name of Lua Eng Chuan has written to the Straits Times Forum today demanding that PRs be banned from selling their HDB flats at a profit.
Mr Lua was writing in response to Law Minister Shanmugam’s remarks yesterday that it is wrong to accuse foreigners of driving up costs and criticize him for not addressing “th “the consequences on single Singaporeans or offer more effective ways to help all citizens.”
“In dismissing the perceived impact of foreigners, Mr Shanmugam noted that foreigners cannot buy HDB flats and that there are too few permanent residents (PRs) to affect prices. He also noted that the Government gives Singaporeans a leg up with concessionary loans and housing grants, and is ready to launch up to 12,000 build-to-order (BTO) units to meet demand. But concessionary loans and housing grants are not enough to offset rising flat prices, and single Singaporeans cannot buy BTO units.,” he added.
Though HDB flats are supposedly public housing for Singapore citizens only, PRs are permitted to buy resale flats and to sell them at a profit later with no restrictions imposed.
There are currently about 500,000 PRs in Singapore. In 2008 alone, there are more than 20,000 PRs.
According to Home Affairs Minister Wong Kan Seng, two out of every three PR applicants are successful, an astonishingly high rate for a developed nation.
Due to the ruling party’s liberal immigration policies, foreigners, especially those from mainland China and India, now make up 36 per cent of the population, up from 14 per cent in 1990.
The relentless influx of foreigners between the years 2005 – 2008 coincided with the rise in the prices of HDB flats as illustrated by the graph below courtesy of the moderator of 3in1kopitiam Kojakbt:
However, the number of new HDB flats built between 2006 – 2008 is only slightly more than 10,000, which is grossly inadequate to meet the increased demand caused artificially by immigration:
[Source: HDB Financial Report 2008/2009]
As public housing is a basic necessity in Singapore which HDB enjoys an absolute monopoly in, Singaporeans have no choice either to buy them directly from HDB or the resale market.
The prices of resale HDB flats hit a record high in June last year and continues to climb.
In an interview with Straits Times a few weeks ago, Propex CEO Mohammad Ismail revealed that 20 per cent of the buyers of resale flats at his agency are PRs, a figure which contradicts Mr Shanmugam’s assertion that PRs form only a small percentage of the buyers.
Some PRs also “spoil” the market by over-paying for resale flats. For example, an Indonesian PR paid $653,000 for a 4-room resale flat at Queenstown though he could well afford a private condominium.
After selling their HDB flats at a hefty profits, many PRs are able to retire relatively comfortably in their homelands due to the lower cost of living.
The issue of PRs allowing to purchase and sell HDB flats freely has been a sore point among many Singaporeans, but National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan defended the policy on the ground that PRs need a place to live in as well.
Mr Lua ended his letter with a suggestion to Mr Shanmugam:
“PRs should also be banned from renting out their flats or putting them up for resale at a profit. The price at which PRs resell their flats should not be higher than what they paid for them.
Such a rule will prevent PRs who do not intend to take up citizenship from reaping a windfall when they return home after a few years. It will indeed ensure that foreigners are not responsible for high flat prices.”
It is highly unlikely that the pro-foreigner ruling party will listen to him. To them, foreigners, PRs and new citizens are the “future” of Singapore, never mind the fact that some of them are uneducated housewives, cleaners, masseurs, construction workers and even freelance prostitutes.
Related articles:
>> Shanmugam: Singaporeans likely culprits for driving up HDB flat prices
>> Mah Bow Tan: HDB flats remain affordable
>> Means testing for PRs to buy resale flats
>> Immigration and public housing: should the govt or people plan ahead?
>> Grace Fu: hard to predict demand for housing
>> Indonesian PR bought 4-room flat at $653,000
>> Mah Bow Tan asks home buyers to be realistic
>> PAP MP blames young couples who cannot get a flat for not planning ahead
>> Home affordability: HDB versus the public
>> Demand vs supply: so many applicants, so few flats
>> Number of applicants exceed number of flats
>> HDB to increase supply of flats
>> Mah: don’t compare with prices in the past
>> ERA: 40 per cent of HDB flat buyers are PRs
Posted in Editorial
It they really cared about Singaporeans, they would have tried their best to solve the problems THEY created, instead of bashing Singaporeans at every available opportunity.
There is no way PAP will change on their own, they are too high up in their ivory towers.
you know the more I read abt the resale market the more I feel it should not be allowed to exist from day 1.
Enough is enough, lets make the 30,000 real estate agents lose their rice bowls. Lets make sure that HDB flats can only be sold back to the HDB at valuation, no more no less. Public housing should be controlled and not trade-able.
in Singapore, the lions lead the sheeps and not the other way round. his letter is worthless imo
How about preventing PR from renting out their flat too?
To be fair PR need a roof over their head too but rent it out for profit is outright milking the system.
I know one PR from Malaysia (after donkey years here still refuse to take up citizenship) who lost his job. Now he renting out his whole flat while he living in JB only to come back monthly to collect rental.
This is the loop hole our helicopter vision leader fail to see maybe refuse to see.
As of now property prices is in the up trend I would not have the slightest doubt he will sell away later for a hefty profit and buy himself a bungalow at home.
Why we need PR who come here to milk the system?
Rules are make by people it can be change by people too.
Did you guys not notice that any questions raised are NOT resolved by these SINGAPOREAN MINISTERS?
Standard answers given –
All these local bred Singaporeans’ fault:
Want high pay, do not want to be cleaners, want shorter hours, want 5 working days, not hardworking, not efficient, only know how to complain, only know how to drive HDB prices up, only know how to blame foreigners, bad karma
All these foreigners’ contribution:
Willing to take low pay, taking jobs Sinaporeans shunned, can work OT without extra pay, very hardworking, very efficicent, never complain, never drive HDB prices up, good karma that they can came to Singapore
Excuse me, can we vote in these foreigners to be our Ministers, I bet that they will do a much better job given all their strong points as stated above than our own local bred Ministers, no? Please look yourself in the mirror whenever you comment on SIngapore because you are a Singaporean too. Your mandate is given by SIngapore CITIZENS.
If these people are oh-so-fantastic, I bet they have no problems with living Singapore and go back to their own countries and compete with their own people, right? Why bother getting into a flame war with Singaporeans in Singapore?
Oops. Too agitated…
If these people are oh-so-fantastic, I bet they have no problem with LEAVING (not living) Singapore and go back to their own countries and compete with their own people, right?
I wonder why the government allows PRs to buy flats in the first instance. Reason is simple – these people are not citizens yet. They may change their minds and many merely use Singapore as a stepping-stone for their final migration to countries like USA or Canada or Australia (which may of these foreigners do). Besides making money from the resale, they are depriving Singaporeans of flats.
HDB is public housing whether they are newly built or re-sale flats and meant for Singaporeans NOT PRs. Singaporeans have sacrificed by having their land acquired for a small pittance. They now see flats built on their lands made available to PRs. This is reprehensible. The original policy of our founding fathers – Goh Keng Swee, Lim Kim San, Hon Sui Sen, etc. was to give Singaporeans a stake in the country, not PRs.
Singaporeans also make the supreme sacrifice of performing National Service. What do PRs do?
The government acknowledges that there are insufficient flat for Singaporeans but yet allow flats to be sold to PRs. Surely this adds on to the pressure for Singaporeans wanting flats.
Not so long ago, my friend (who completed NS) wanted to marry a foreign wife (a Malaysian) and the Government objected. Do you think the government allowed him to buy a flat? Of course not. But today we allow a whole family of foreigners turned PRs (no NS to boot) to buy flats and resell to make profits to the detriment of Singaporeans. The policies of the government is inconsistent. It is shallow and haphazard.
Can’t believe TR actually posted this nonsense. This is a FREE market and people have the right to profit if they can. WILLING buyer WILLING seller. Instead of telling foreigners not to sell @ profit why not tell buyers not to buy from foreigners. Dumb article.
hi there
1. aiyoh! so simple man!
2. get the horse guy to be transparent to show all the sheep facts and figures on spr buying public housing.
3. that shall reflect the truth or any slate.
4. honest, i have come across that spr bought hbd then sold it back to sinkies at a higher price.
5. subsequently, the same spr person left sin for good.
6. well, if keling, horse do not know such ground sentiments, sinkies suck!
Might as well banned PR from buying HDB flats.
HDB flats are meant for pinkies… true blue Sporeans!
Time for each of us to be Pro-Active.
1. Choose from any of the many issues that citizens should be concerned about.
2. See a stranger, talk to him. Get his views. From there, decide if Go or No Go to share with him your views and views on Alternative Websites, the views of the Alternative Nation.
3. One by One should be the approach. Hong Lim cannot achieve much.
Maybe TR could be generous enough to lead the way by giving us some writeup on what and how to talk to strangers.
No time left. Its either We Win or We Lose.
These are our options.
10 a day, by each volunteer, lets say 100 of us.
That means 1000 a day.
As we count down, the number rises steadily and snowballs into a huge number.
When they wont read Alternative, We Bring Alternative to them.
There is no 2 ways about it.
Either Or. We are Responsible.
Irritated on Tue, 19th Jan 2010 4:01 pm
Can’t believe TR actually posted this nonsense. This is a FREE market and people have the right to profit if they can. WILLING buyer WILLING seller. Instead of telling foreigners not to sell @ profit why not tell buyers not to buy from foreigners. Dumb article.
Yes! Total Agreement.
Hi, this is related to HDB issues, but not exactly in the above context. Please bear with me.
I had an Indonesian friend who asked me about my family. I told him I lived in a HDB 3-rm flat with my family of which there were 5 of us. My wife and I stayed in the master room and the kids lived in the other room. He then asked me a funny question, “What do you do with the third room”. There never was a third room. You see, it was a HDB 2-bdr-room flat commonly called 3-rm flat.
I realized that many foreigners did not know about the unusual naming convention adopted by HDB. Many of my foreign friends thought that Singaporeans were living comfortably in flats with 3-5 bedrooms when in reality, HDB 3-rm/4-rm/5-rm flats were really 2-bdr/3-bdr units. The confusion was real since not so long ago, I had a foreign friend from UK who placed an advanced rental deposit for a 3-rm HDB flat before coming over. To his great anger, there was one bedroom less than he thought.
After explaining to him that his property agent did not misrepresent the facts, and that this was a common description used for public housing here, he left me with a question to ponder, “Why do Singaporeans accept this?” He was referring to the naming convention used by our public housing provider. I had been thinking about this for a while. Recently, there was a HDB 2-rm flat sold for $245k which caused similar confusion among my foreign friends because it really only had 1 bedroom.
I had rented short term housing in US and HK before. They all went by the numbers of bedroom when advertising. In private property market here, condo units were being advertised by the numbers of bedroom as well, say 1-bdrm/2-bdrm/3-bdrm etc. If Capitaland were to advertise a 3-bdrm unit as 5-rm condo, I am sure CASE would be on them very soon.
My point was that we were deceiving ourselves and overstated our social advancements all those years. Most Singaporeans simply lived in 2-bdrm and 3-bdrm flats. There was no gradation between HDB 4-rm and 5-rm flats. I am sorry to tell folks who ‘upgraded’ to 5-rm units, they were simply 3-bdrm flats with a larger size, kind of wearing the emperor clothes all those years.
The non-standard convention of naming HDB flats was also confusing to foreigners and inhibit out ability to integrate with them. We should address HDB flats by the numbers of bedroom. For example, if you write an article “Couple pays $245k for HDB 2-rm flat”, it should be “Couple pays $245k for HDB 1-bdrm flat” because that was what it really was – one bedroom. On the other hand, if you said generic statement like “HDB flats were affordable”, that’s fine since sizes and rooms were not being addressed.
I knew this was a long rant, I really hope we could change the way we communicate the actual public housing situation here so we could better integrate with foreigners, we should be using the numbers of bedroom when referring to HDB flats as in international practice. Why do Singaporeans accept HDB way of counting rooms, I did not understand. Thank you.
To the above:
Please ask Straits Times why they chose to publish such a “dumb” letter in the first place:
http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/Story/STIStory_479074.html
They can be contacted at [email protected]
This is precisely the problem I was discussing with my hubby yesterday. PRs should not be allowed to sell HDB flats for a profit. Valuation of HDB flats are skewed when close to premium COV are given. Given a stable economy status, a flat has gone up 10k in a month and owner is asking for 30k COV, imagine the next transaction taking in consideration of this 30k COV would be another 10-15k higher?
As some of you has pointed out, the current government are not doing anything to set the situation right. The only way is to reelect people who understand the problem and are willing to set things right.
Vote for a opp. party or setup a new party to contest PAP! We have to facilitate the chance for people to vote for what they want, what they believe in, not out of no better alternative. The people of Singapore can change the situation.
Great idea! The price of private properties will shoot through the roof! To all commentators in this forum, maybe you should request that PR wear a yellow star…
the foreigners are so rich that there really isn’t anything we can do. in the past foreigners only could buy apartments, not condos, only selected condos. then foreigners could buy condos, landed property is still out. then foreigners could buy landed property in sentosa, and they are given PR as part of the purchase. all these policies isolate the well-protected landed property market where most of the ministers and high-paid civil servants live.
To Dolphin
A 3 rooms flat consists of 2 bedrooms and a living room.
In HDB context Living room is still considered a room.
Why they name it that way ? ….I don’t know maybe to make it sound bigger, better, faster…hehe.
Irritated and dd,
Yes this is a FREE market. Please ask government to disband HDB, and leave housing to market forces. We will save billions a year. While you are at it, please ask government to remove the restrictions like minimum occupation period, resale levy, no keeping of certain pets, etc. These have no place in a free market.
If the PR is to sell at the price it bought it for, who does it sell the flat to?
If it is sold to a singaporean and the valuation is more than the selling price, there will be a very long line waiting to buy that flat. Anyway the MIWs will never let singapore have such a windfall.
If its sold to HDB, how will HDB sell it into the market? At resale price? HDB gain? Perhaps the amount above paid by the new buyer is donated to charity?
What if the current valuation is below what the PR bought it at? Who will absorb the loss? Will the new buyer have to pay the buyer’s price and pay above valuation? Who will buy this? The PR will be stuck.
If HDB buys it back. Does it absorb the losses? Does it sell the flat at resale price (and absorb the loss)?
I am kinda expecting the HDB situation to turn. Once the PAP start losing GRCs, the horse is kicked out, HDB prices may actually turn negative and this valuation below buying price may come about. Those buying with high COv are gonna get caught. Maybe with enough opposition finally we get to see how much profit the MIWs have been hiding in the HDB cost. That’ll immidiately cause them to reduce new flat prices and the whole stack of cards will collapse…
AiLeen,
You are right. The people in the present government are living in Good Class Bungalows bought many years ago. Current HDB situation has no effect on them. In fact, if they bought a lot of private housing for investments, this is boom time for them. Ordinary Singaporeans are the ones suffering. Not only that we are treated like idiots and blamed for every single problem that government created.
Dear All,
Please note that TR will be more stringent and more active (as a response to feedback from bloggers) about Racists and Vulgar comments.
Please note that we will remove entire blogs with these comments.
Please support TR to be more Credible and Sustainable.
Cheers, Moderator, Temasek Review
Watch the History Of Singapore Part 3. Frankly, I find that PART 3 is just promoting the PAP to the world so if the Opp. takes over, maybe the UN will send in troops and the US will nuke us in order for PAP to get thier throne back. Wooden Goh was heard saying that Hong Lim park corner is not really for freedom of speech but for the opposition to run out of steam and shut up because firstly, who will want to listen to why PAP is bad when they are rushing to work. The reason list goes on…
Quoting “dd on Tue, 19th Jan 2010 4:46 pm”
dd ,please, whoever you are, you don’t understand that public subsidized housing is not meant to be a commodity for non-citizens to traded freely. Get your common sense updated please.
this issue not that simple I think.
HDB is a very good tools to use to boost the economy, similar to US situation, a housing can use as ATM to derive many others economy activities, if the property price don’t go up, the GDP can’t move up every year.
To increase property price, just either increase demand (bring in more foreigner), or reduce supply (build less HDB), i think it make sense to today’s sg situation.
I do encourage more PRs to buy at high price while S’poreans hold back their horses. At such a rate, the market bubble will burst. At the end of the day, it will be the PRs who suffer & S’pore will be famed for nothing but showmanship.
PRs should not be allowed to buy any HDB public housing in the first place.
If they want to buy, they can buy condos. Since they are all hard-striving foreign talent who have the ability to create jobs, they should have the financial capability to buy condos, right?
If they don’t want to buy, then rent. I don’t see why we should let them buy public flats and allowing them to drive up the prices.
My 2 cents worth
a) the housing programe continues in its current form
b) address the issues of singles by allowing them to buy smaller units (unconditionally)
c) PRs are allowed to buy resale, with the condition that it must be owner occupied and no rooms rented out.
d) should they resell, they can do so on the open market, but I feel the advantage for them to aggressively bid up the current market is because the sums work out in their favour on the assumption they can recoup part of the payment through subletting.
This should not skew the prices for the resale flats, as PRs, who generally sees the opportunity to buy and then sublet, often 4 to a room to their countryman. At the rate of 180 per head, one room can fetch 720 a month. If they rent out more than one room their monthly mortgage is secured
@ck on Tue, 19th Jan 2010 7:48 pm
I think ck has a point there. Housing would boost GDP. But when public housing becomes speculative, it is not good. The key term is public housing. They should be affordable and but not a burden to the owners if it is public housing. Are there other ways to boost GDP without pushing up the housing price?
“PUBLIC HOUSING”, in many countries, are strictly for the purpose of providing “affordable” living for the citizens. Prices, are therefore, mostly controlled and many, do not even have a open market for resale. And most, do not extend that banefit to foreigner too.
In Singapore, the PAP had used it as a political tool to enhance the assets of the people. Frankly, how many Singaporean can keep their profit from the sale of their flat? Unless you are leaving Singapore for good, you do not keep to enjoy your profit, even if you upgrade to privete property, you are most likely to plough it back into the new house. Therefore, PRs are the ones that most likely can cash out their profit when they go back to their motherland.
Now that the HDB ghad created this mess, it is impossible to stop the PRs from buying flats and since there is a resale market out there, it is also not practical to stop them from selling it to the market.
One way we can stop them from taking too much profit is to tax non-Singaporean heavily from capital gain made from sales of their HDB, up to 80%-90%. This way, they will think carefully before they put money into buying a flat.
HDB already set up the rule for PR to buy the resale. Not any how come out the rules. So, whether allow PR to buy the house does not main issue.I want to ask you guy!
1)Do you think housing price increase because of PR/ PR pay high COV and get the profit after selling? If so, why dont you Singaporean do the same way? You have a chance to get new built.No need to point out others what they do.
2) HDB built the house, construction firm create the job, local people sell their old house and buy the new house, PR can buy the resale house. All these are happend at the same time and please dont criticize, bear in mind.
3)I am not agree that PR can not rent out their room. Since they buy it, its belong to them.Some local people rent their house or room also. A lot of foreigner dont want to rent the room from local because of some constraint.
To remind you that the pap government loves foreigners so much they’ll bend backwards for you people.. public housing for foreigners (including PRs) ??.. uniquely in pap singapore.
#
win on Tue, 19th Jan 2010 10:10 pm
HDB already set up the rule for PR to buy the resale. Not any how come out the rules. So, whether allow PR to buy the house does not main issue.I want to ask you guy!
While I agree completely with many posters that HDBs being publicly subsidized housing should not be open to speculative market forces, there is a major practical problem to reversing our current course.
For most Singaporean families their largest asset is their home, so much so that any decline or even stasis in HDB resale prices would severely affect Singaporeans’ collective ability to fund their retirements.
The roots of this problem is manifold, ranging from loose monetary policy to excessive immigration. To reverse such policy now would result massive loss of paper wealth, paper wealth which can only be supported by artificial demand, hence the negative real interest rates and imported demand.
While breaking this cycle will undoubtedly be extremely painful, current government policy of kicking the can down the road is not sustainable either. Eventually we will reach a state where a Malthusian collapse of the fiat monetary system is inevitable as we will encounter a point where we simply cannot export any more risk or mortgage more future spending.
I think is the system design this way, not really PR. Last decade the housing price hit very high as well with less foreigner…without PR, HDB still can push the valuation. same result, only may be less COV
win,
Do you know what PUBLIC housing is? It is meant for citizens not foreigners. Foreigners can buy or rent private housing.
I don’t know how it works in Myanmar but foreigners all over the world don’t insist that the local governments sell them housing meant for their locals. If I go to Hong Kong, I don’t insist that Hong Kong administration sell me public housing. Only in Singapore, we have Myanmar and other foreign leeches with their overinflated egos insisting on snatching public housing from locals.
hello complainers,
why dont you ask your own citizen brotherS, not to sell their HDB to foreigners? and not to rent it also to foreigners..
CAN YOU DO IT ?
First solve your own community problem, then blame foreigner/PRs/whatever.
Why let PRs remain as PRs for donkey years. If they did not take-up citizenship within a stipulated preiod, then send them home!!
do you know why new BTO are six times over subscribed?
because citizens wants to buy them at cheap prices from HDB and make profit by selling them in resale market over next few year?
That why HDB reserved 95% for first timers, this year.
DON’T TELL ME THAT CITIZENS DON’T WANT PROFIT FROM RESALE MARKET.
Since BTO from Aug till the latest one, there’s a total of 11375 units available with 53974 application. The ‘affordable’ housing can only be available to ard 20% of the ppl. It is singaporean fault that their vote has breed multi millionaire minister that can offer only statement like they were caught off guards and are selling ‘affordable’ public housing that are pegged to the market rate. Do we need to pay millions for these results? i’m sure there’s a lot of singaporean talent out there glad to deliver the same result at half the pay.
With the large walkover boundaries drawn on election, these minister might think they are infallible and have no worries to continue for more terms. Some presidents with pay much lesser than our minister have to go through so many rounds of election in order to be elected. As citizen we should have the rights to vote off the minister from their seats instead of having walkovers. The seat should then be open up for more capable ppl to contest over. only then that the minister is deserving for the millions the ppl are paying.
@Myanmar NOT WELCOME IN SG on Tue, 19th Jan 2010 11:52 pm
I hate to sound like a pompous self righteous ass, but your nick is counter productive to say the least.
The last thing the TR needs is to be painted as a forum for bigots and xenophobes.
Yes I complete agree that we need change in SG, its hard and the TR is trying to create a credible alternative voice for the mainstream.
Having nicks like yours is quite clearly of negative value. I largely agree with your sentiments about HDB issues but for the sake of us all Singaporeans please find a nick less inflammatory to post under.
Please understand that I do not mean this as a personal attack in any way.
I agree with many users here some rules must be changed IMMEDIATELY:
1. PR shouldn’t be allowed to buy HDB flats even resale flats. If they want to buy PUBLIC flats then take up citizenship. If not then rent one or go and buy PRIVATE property. (HDB flats should be 100% reserved for SINGAPORE CITIZENS only.)
2. For current hdb flats owners who are PR, HDB must set a rule to make it illegal to rent it out even if it is a spare room.
3. Also, is there a max time period, like 3 yrs, given to PR for them to decide whether they want to be Singaporean? Those who have bought a flat and after 3 yrs refuse to be Singaporean must sell the flat back to HDB at the same price or market value whichever is LOWER.
This is not a new problem so I’m just wondering did the two oppositon leaders bring it up in Parliament?
*Interesting* post & comments.
I see some misleading points, just to give one:
“Though HDB flats are supposedly public housing for Singapore citizens only”
Similarly in another post:
“By right, only citizens should be allowed to purchase public housing as in Malaysia and other countries.”
Facts:
1. There are no public housing in Malaysia, only low-cost dwelling.
2. Public housing is not limited to citizen in many countries, including Australia, China (Hong Kong).
http://www.immi.gov.au/living-in-australia/settle-in-australia/everyday-life/housing/publichousing.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Hong_Kong
3. In Australia, Citizen & Permanent Resident have almost equal rights because they pay the same tax and contribute equally to nation building, i.e., education, social benefits, etc. except the rights to vote. This is a nature of developed-country. Singapore is already quite restrictive to PR comparing with other developed-countries.
So please stop making PR as a *scapegoat* but look at facts.
I totally agree with what Mr Lua says. However, PAP will never listen. It does not care if more locals become homeless. Foreigners are more important to them than us.
@SingaporePR
Many countries you mentioned imposed much higher taxes for foreign ownership of property. Australia, for e.g., stipulates that foreigners may only buy new property and may only sell the property to locals. These measures ensure stable housing prices for locals and sustainable living.
Stop trying to justify your existence. I know you PRs just want the HDB prices to escalate over the roof so you gold-diggers can retire back to your China, Malaysia, etc at the age of 35 filthy rich!!!
Get out of here. Shoo! We don’t want you here.
@SingaporePR on Wed, 20th Jan 2010 7:25 am
The number of PR in Singapore is simply too many for a small country, some say not even a country but a city. Please take a hike and go to Australia which is a much better and bigger country.
Probably you are an Australia’s reject that is why you are squeezing with us in this small country. No shame quitter, you still have citizenship of your country and come here just to take advantage of our stupid policy. Give up your country citizenship and disown your own country then take up PR here, why don’t you do that to tell us how much you want to be in this country.
The type of PR country like Australia takes in is far better than the quality that Singapore brings in, so where is the comparison. There is no need to compare a pony and a horse, we already know how to distinguish.
If being chased you still stay around then you must be very thick skinned. Someone above me just told you to shoo! Get out! We don’t want you buy our HDB.
hmm not bad, malaysian come to singapore work a while, get PR, get HDB flat, rent it out, then go back malaysia live forever no need to work liao!
S$1500 rental = RM 3600 / month
no NS
no income tax
after 30 years, government give him SERS new flat
flat price keep increasing as guaranteed by govt (better than govt bonds which fluctuate in price)
stable sing $, more stable than RM
so next time RM drop more in exchange rate, it becomes RM4000/month or more
he’ll sit on one flat so another person who needs it as a family home can’t buy
and he’s in no hurry to sell – if you were him, will u be in a hurry?
SingaporePR said:
So please stop making PR as a *scapegoat* but look at facts.
we all know what’s the answer if we ask SingaporePR to become SingaporeCitizen
and we all know why
firers watch the front! universal round bang bang bang bang !
hmm, if u be PR, u dont get about
= $30-40k housing subsidy.
if u be PR, u dont need to do 2 years NS, that’s 24 months x about $2000 (or more) salary
= $48000
and nobody will bug u for reservist duty for the rest of your youthful life
hmm … poor PR don’t have housing subsidy, so sad…. and dun get to enjoy the mosquitoes of the jungles, all that valuable experience that the Army Has Made Me A Fatter Man ….
Dear citizenofSG on Wed, 20th Jan 2010 11:45 am
“The type of PR country like Australia takes in is far better than the quality that Singapore brings in, so where is the comparison. There is no need to compare a pony and a horse, we already know how to distinguish.”
Not true. Australia has more than its share of immigrants that instead of contributing to the economy, stay at home and collect welfare.
Nobody point out the gun to sell the house from local people. Originally who own the house? In resale market, who can mainly sell the house?- LOCAL. Mostly who buy the house?- PR.After sell the house, who can buy the house from HDB? LOCAL. So actually player is not PR, those housing agent and local people. The time market can pay high price, some PR down grade their house and shift to cheaper place.At the end, no need to pay high interest for long term.I notice that most of the PR did not sell the house unless they have some reason.Most of the PR did not easily spend the $ like local people. Should you guy need to learn it?
Why not Singaporeans can not think in this way since they claim that they are very smart? Have to fair and square.
admin on Tue, 19th Jan 2010 5:26 pm
@Admin
“To the above:
Please ask Straits Times why they chose to publish such a “dumb” letter in the first place:
http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/Story/STIStory_479074.html
They can be contacted at [email protected]”
Dear Admin,
ST may have posted the dumb letter, but have in no way endorsed the letter. TR on the other hand, although not agreeing outright, have implied their agreement as evidenced by the above article.
Thanks for giving feedbacks on my comments.
@GET OUT PRs!
“Many countries you mentioned imposed much higher taxes for foreign ownership of property. Australia, for e.g., stipulates that foreigners may only buy new property and may only sell the property to locals.”
Interesting comment, but misleading again. Fact: Australia, for e.g., stipulates that foreigners may only buy new property and may only sell the property to locals, i.e., Australian Citizen & PR. Australia government is equating Citizen to PR in the rights of owning properties there. Again, Australian citizen & PR are tax similarly, no difference in that as long as you are tax resident. Thanks for supporting my view that PR should be given equal rights to citizen since their contributions are equal to the country. Are you confusing foreigners with PR? PR are actually locals or residents in Australia and Singapore.
@citizenofSG
I see that you are quite irrational in your comment, please give me facts. It sounds to me like sour-grape that you wished to gain Australian PR but never qualify for that? Call yourself patriotic?
Before asking PR to leave Singapore, are you sure your contributions to Singapore so far has exceeded one of an average PR?
@views
How do you know I am not a 2nd gen PR who has served NS just like you? How do you know my contributions to Singapore are not as much or even more than you did?
Stop asking what Singapore did for you, start asking what you can do for Singapore.
@views
“if u be PR, u dont need to do 2 years NS, that’s 24 months x about $2000 (or more) salary = $48000″
Walau so money-minded…
Fact: 2nd generation PR need to do NS just like 2nd generation citizen. Just that when Singapore gain independence, the NS policy haven’t started yet. So from that point onwards, 2nd generation citizens & 2nd generation PR need to serve NS. And of coz, 1st generation citizen & 1st generation PR don’t need to serve NS.
@views
“hmm not bad, malaysian come to singapore work a while, get PR, get HDB flat, rent it out, then go back malaysia live forever no need to work liao!”
I think you are definitely welcome to stay in Malaysia as a Singaporean under MMSH program:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_My_Second_Home
Assuming you are a Singaporean who live in the margin owning just a 3-rm hdb, which @49-yo you can sell for minimumly SGD150k (sorry a bit on the low-end). Then you are well qualified for MMSH and retire in Malaysia comfortably and no need to work liao. If that is the lifestyle you have been aiming for so far. Xie Shaoguang did that few years ago, owning a farm & restaurant in Johor, don’t you feel envy?
My husband has been posted to Shanghai for the past few years so we have stayed there for a while now. In Shanghai, foreigners are not allowed to buy government low cost housing whether directly from the government or in the resale market. In fact, children of foreigners have to go for costly education many times more than locals. Same for medical cost. Foreigners do not get any privileges. Foreigners will have to buy or rent private properties. No need for the government to justify as they are just protecting the interest of their citizens and that is what the government is supposed to do isn’t it ? As PR/foreigners there, just take it or leave it.
In Singapore, PR/foreigners get to buy HDB flats and can profiteer from public housing. This public housing was originally intended to provide affordable housing for eligible Singaporeans. Their children can attend our local schools etc. By the way, when my husband and I were first married, we were not even eligible to buy HDB flat directly from HDB due to the 8k income ceiling. My husband served NS and we are both true blue Singaporeans and we were put on pile with PR/foreigners and had to buy a flat in the resale market. Well, we accepted that. When my 2 sons grow up, they need to come back and serve army or give up their citizenship. We accepted it as well. But then we are starting to think whether this is a place we can truely call home where it doesn’t matter much if you are a Singaporean or not to live in Singapore. I just remember being a Singaporean means to remember to continue to pay your taxes and get my sons to go to the army to defend the country and vote for our government to get your lift upgraded and flat upgraded as if the funds don’t come from taxpayers monies in the first place.