Why is HDB able to reveal breakdown cost of their flats publicly in 1981 and not now?
February 2nd, 2010 | 
Author: OPINION
The exact breakdown cost of HDB flats is one of the biggest mysteries waiting to solved in Singapore.
Despite the government’s repeated claims that HDB flats are “heavily subsidized” for Singaporeans, many Singaporeans remain unconvinced.
When HDB revealed in its annual report that it suffered a loss of $2 billion dollars last year as a result of subsidizing first-time home buyers, few buy its story.
In November 2009, Member of Parliament Chiam See Tong asked how much HDB flats cost and the profit margin added to the cost when selling the flats to which National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan replied in Parliament:
“The total cost of building flats varies based on when we build, where we build and what we build. It includes cost of land, as well as cost of construction of the flats and ancillary services. It varies from $230,000 for a 3-room flat in Punggol to $530,000 for a 5-room flat in Tiong Bahru.”
He added that HDB does not price its flats based on cost-plus-profit, but at a discounted market price. Together with the Additional Housing Grant, which varies from $5,000 to $40,000, the subsidies amount to about 20 per cent of the market price for 4-room flats, on average.
[TODAY, 24 November 2009]
The picture will become clearer if Mr Mah provides us with the exact breakdown of the construction and land cost of the flats which he has declined to do so.
Neither did HDB provide the figures in its annual financial reports nor on its online portal HDB Infoweb which contains other detailed information such as the resale price indices from 1990 till now.
One may attribute Mr Mah and HDB’s reticence to do so to the possibility that the information is covered under the Official Secrets Act, but it is not.
In 1981, HDB published the construction cost, land cost, selling price and subsidy of old and new 3 room and 5 room flats in The Straits Times:
3 room flats:
5 room flats:
[Credit: Forumer "Zack" from SPUG forum]
As we can see easily from the above figures, HDB did provide a substantial subsidy for its flats back then.
For example, the cost price (construction + land cost) of a 3 room flat in a new town is $61,500 per unit. The selling price is $32,800 as HDB provided a housing subsidy of $28,700 to the home buyers.
The prices of new HDB flats have sky-rocketed in recent years. 4 and 5-room flats in a recent BTO project at Queenstown fetch more than $400,000 and $500,000 respectively.
What is the construction cost, land cost and total cost per unit built? Is HDB selling them to Singaporeans at below cost price or is it making a profit?
While the land cost is not revealed by the government, we are able to estimate the construction cost of new flats based on figures provided by the deveopers.
According to business weekly, the Edge, Sim Lian Construction Co. has been awarded a contract worth $99.8 million by the Housing & Development Board for the building works at Queenstown Redevelopment Contract 30 with a total of 774 dwelling units which amounts to a construction cost of $129,180 per unit.
As we do not know the size of the flats, let us assume that they will be sold at $300,000 for a three-room flat which will amount to a land cost of between $170,820 per unit if they are indeed sold at cost price:
Construction cost ($129,180) + Land Cost ($170,820) – HDB subsidy ($40,000) = Selling price ($260,000)
Since Singapore is a small island with limited land, it is hardly surprising that land prices are going up, but who owns the land to build the HDB flats in the first place?
It turns out that most, if not all are owned by the Singapore Land Authority, a statutory board under the Ministry of Law formed on 1 June 2001 by the merger of the Land Office, Singapore Land Registry, Survey Department and Land Systems Support Unit. (Source: SLA)
In short, the land belongs to none other than the state – the Singapore government!
How did the Singapore government manage to own so much land? Did they acquire them at market rates? Apparently not.
In 1966, the PAP government introduced a draconian law known as the Land Acquisition Act which “basically compelled all private landowners to give up whatever land or property they owned when the government required them for public purposes.”
This law gives the government the power to acquire land at a price which is “not higher than what the land would be worth had the government not carried out development in the area” or in other words, way below the market value.
By 1976, 10 years after the act came into affect, the percentage of state-owned land went up to 67 per cent, from less than 50 per cent in 1959. By 2004, about 90 per cent of the land was owned by the government and its statutory boards, according to the Singapore Land Authority.
[Source: Men in White, page 621]
In summary, the Singapore government acquired the land in Singapore from private landowners at a low price. It then “sells” it to HDB via Singapore Land Authority and other statutory boards at “market price” to build HDB flats.
HDB then sells these flats to Singaporeans at “cost price” while providing housing subsidies of between $5,000 to $40,000 to first-time home buyers.
Technically speaking, HDB is making a “loss” as on top of paying for the construction and land costs, it still has to “subsidize” Singaporeans by selling them at below cost price.
However, since the land is not sold to HDB at the price which is paid for when the state acquired the land, the ultimate beneficiary is the Singapore government – a situation akin to “money going from one’s left to right pocket.”
HDB should come clean with Singaporeans on the exact construction and land costs of its recently launched BTO projects in Punggol, Sembawang, Choa Chu Kang and Queenstown like what it did in 1981.
The owners of these land, be it SLA or other statutory boards should reveal the prices they pay for the lands under the Land Acquisition Act. Some of them may already belong to the state while others are acquired at very low prices in the early 1970s and 1980s.
The next important question to ask is: if the Singapore government has been making a “profit” from these land sales to HDB, where are the profits going to?
At the end of the day, it is Singaporeans who are paying for the HDB flats, not HDB itself never mind whether it did “subsidize” home buyers or not.
Public housing is supposed to be easily affordable to ordinary Singaporeans like in the 1970s and 1980s. The prices of new HDB flats should be pegged to the median wages of ordinary Singaporeans instead of that of resale flats.
In 1981, a brand new 3-room flat costs only $32,800. Today, it costs more than 7 times, but our salaries have not increased by that much.
The Singapore government can easily reduce the cost price of new HDB flats by selling the land at a lower price to HDB for constructing them.
Perhaps SLA and other statutory boards should consider “subsidizing” Singaporeans for HDB flats by selling the land to HDB at a lower than market price just like when it first acquired the land years back.
After all, as land prices have sky-rocketed in the last few decades, SLA will still able to make a “profit” even if it sells the land at a couple of thousands of dollars less than its market price to HDB.
So when HDB says it is selling flats to Singaporeans at cost price with subsidy, it is technically correct. However, it fails to mention that it is buying the land from SLA and other statutory boards at market price.
With public anger fast rising over the escalating HDB flat prices, it is time Singaporeans exert pressure on HDB and other relevant agencies to reveal the truth of the matter – the exact constuction and land costs of HDB flats for us to judge for ourselves if HDB flats are indeed heavily “subsidized” by HDB and if they are worth the price we are paying for.
Posted in Opinion
good article
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Back then, officer were all new & don’t know they could actually hide so many things.
The Pioneer did start off with the intention of Provide Affordable Housing for the people.
But after so many years of Absolute Power,
no one question their doing & Guts start to grow & they derailed from their initial aim of provide affordable housing.
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They just bought a decent computer.
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These ministers are ‘glorified’ public servants. Why are they keeping everything a secret including those things that affect our lives and livelihood. If you are clean and there is no hanky panky for which they are paid millions, they better come clean. The assumption otherwise is that there is something wrong in the accounts.
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Well, they realized later that they could make a substantial profit.
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Why? you really want to know why??
Answer is soooooooo simple.
If they reveal all the facts all singapore will appreciate the the full magnitude the obscene Gargantua amounts of profits HDB has been reaping from the suckers who have been told that the government is digging into its coffers to subsidise their flats.
Lets be Honest, they will never reveal this, surely you cannot expect MBT to be that dumb.
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When you have a number of flats, and you are at liberty to price it any price you want, you can say,
let’s make the flat in this area this price.
let’s make the flat in this further away area this price.
with that, the consumers will think, ok, this is your price, and it’s reasonable. and you say resale flat price is high right? i prefer your hdb price, because resale flat prices are unrealistically high.
so he buys from hdb.
if hdb raises the price too close to resale flat prices, the consumer says, let’s buy resale instead, since the difference isn’t justified. this pushes up the resale flat prices.
so it doesn’t matter what fancy name you call it, marked to market, pegged to resale, cost subsidy, market subsidy, these are fancy terms.
ultimately, the question is, “How much?”
what is the price.
if resale is $600k, and your price is $400k, maybe people will buy from you, and resale sellers have to now lower their greed to $560k.
if your price is $560k because you call your fancy system Market Subsidy and you can even throw in a few credit default swaps and other fancy toys together, consumers will say, i’ll buy resale at $600k. and resellers can now raise their prices to $620k. and they can use another fancy term called COV to raise it.
these are just fancy terms. i hope the explanation is simple enough. we don’t need fancy terms.
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Good Old ’80s..
I like those days..!!
carefree life and being happy as a singaporean in those days !!
BUT not now !!
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Problem was this government had turned into a for-profit entity. Generating a fiscal surplus became a top priority and obsession. Civil servants and politicians are judged and remunerated on how much profit their policies can make. Taking care of citizens is no longer important to them.
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“heavily subsidized” <- What the govt meant was subsidised 'based on market value' and not 'construction costs'.
I dunno since when they changed the stance but i know it is based on market value now… so it means they could be making money. (construction cost except land value is similar no matter where u build unless exceptional design or high floors)
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Though the image of the cost of HDB flat is a little blurr, we could make out that the land cost is much lower and only a fraction of construction cost.
However the assumption given by TR:Construction cost ($129,180) + Land Cost ($170,820) – HDB subsidy ($40,000) = Selling price ($260,000) – show a much higher land cost. This is unlikely since land paid by the government through compulsory acquisition is very little only.
If we assume that land cost is only 30% of construction cost then the assumption should be: Construction cost ($129,180) + Land Cost ($43,060) =$172240.(average total cost of flat)
Hence HDB is making a profit of $87,760 plus a subsidy saving of $40,000 which equate to $127760.
Who dare to ask them to be accountable. When you ask them openly such question, the chance of you becoming a bankrupt is very high. They will quickly jump at the opposition and malign the opposition for calling them cheater and liar and they send you straight to court for a libel suit and soon your house and everything will be gone. Since the chances of winning a libel suit by opposition is minus zero, who in the right frame of mind dare to question the high and mighty.
Should we have a large number of opposition in parliament, then the situation will not be the same. When inside parliament the opposition are protected for what they ask and say and they can question the high and mighty these things with fellow opposition in sight to give them a helping hand. At the moment two opposition is not enough and those nominated MPs are just a waste of time as they are not truly representing anybody but themselves.
The PAP use of nominated MP is to tell auntie and uncle that there is no problem within Singapore and everything is under control. The use of NMP assures the auntie and uncle that Singapore have opposition voices in parliament in the form of NMP. Hence auntie and uncle won’t vote for opposition as their young sons want them to. They believe that should they vote for opposition as their MP, these opposition will come in to steal whatever money in their care when they run a town council. Seriously this is a very shrewd move by the PAP and the old man and lady in the family will surely believe it no matter how hard the young try to convince them.
The solution of the effect of NMP can only be neutralized by the opposition themselves who must vouch not to take up NMP if they lose. We know it may be harsh but it is the only way to convince the old auntie and uncle who can really make a difference. Convincing these older people is as difficult as asking the elephant to scale the wall of a HDB flat.
In order to reclaim our country Singapore, voting in more opposition is the answer and let us not try to scare the old uncle and auntie who are more adverse to voting opposition than to accepting the nonsense of PAP.
It is better to tell old uncle and auntie that a vote for opposition is to help their children to a better future and a vote for PAP is to condemn their children future as PAP are more pro foreigners (citizens with no national service) as this could help the PAP to cling onto high salaries.
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“If they reveal all the facts all singapore will appreciate the the full magnitude the obscene Gargantua amounts of profits HDB has been reaping from the suckers who have been told that the government is digging into its coffers to subsidise their flats.”
well we the people of singapore need to be patient. just like the facts about supply numbers of housing and demand numbers / immigration numbers – it takes a while and eventually we’ll get the numbers.
maybe this is called delay tactic. i’m not good at political terms.
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cost analysis on Tue, 2nd Feb 2010 10:37 am
You are sure patient, think that citizens as well as opposition parties have been calling for this information to be shared for decades.
Recent addition for information is around the split between PRs and Citizens employment information from MOM.
Guess the reason for silence and non release is the same, the facts will put PAP leaders in a bad light.
Can fully understand this but please dont tell me that Singapore is an open society and the gahmen is open and clean when they are unwilling to share data since we have learnt long time ago that words come cheap and can only be trusted when its back by facts.
Remember the appended quotes
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
Abraham Lincoln, (attributed)
16th president of US (1809 – 1865)
Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth.
Abraham Lincoln
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HDB is actually IRAS in disguise. Government control the land supply and can set any land cost at their will. There is no such thing as market rate because it is totally determined by government. One main objective of CPF is to allow the citizen to save enough for old age. But with the escalated cost of HDB flat, many will be left with nothing when retired. MBT should justify affordability not with the ridiculous 30 years repayment period but also on the available fund for retirement. The government provides little assistance to the old citizens in difficult except the wayang amount. The behaviour of PAP government are beyond tolerance !!!
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which year did HDB start to charge high price?
Just want to correlate if that year is when
- gov lost lots of money in “gambling’
- some clown become PM?
- some good old guards left?
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a. A basic tenet of a healthy democracy is open dialogue and transparency……….Peter Fenn
b. One man’s transparency is another’s humiliation………. Gerry Adams
The PAP government has never been transparent since they came into power. Do we expect HDB to be likewise?
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Ng Kok Lim, any comments?
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the excess profits from the land sale goes into the government consolidated fund which will then go into national reserves at the end of current term of government if not used for expenditure. (normally, not used)
national reserves will be managed by GIC, thus the investment returns/loss of GIC matters a lot to Singapore as blood,toil and sweat by generations of singaporeans built this reserve up.
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The article is good though it falls short on 1 single most sore point.
We DO NOT own HDB flats. We are mere lessees BUT bear the full brunt of property ups n downs. All hdb flat owners should re-look at their documents signed with HDB and the heading states very clearly LEASE.
We rent the flats from HDB but must pay property tax FOR the owner ie HDB. if you rent a private apartment, such tax is borne by the property owner NOT the lessee, as well as tv license, insurance etc.
Singaporeans are just plain dumb. Or in my humble opinion, singaporeans just loves to be screwed by the PAP again n again n again. Since ‘majority’ vote for them again n again.
When the shit hits the fan and the dust falls, we will then know the dictator lee kuan yew and its cronies in the PAP have swindled how much from Singapore. I hope to live till the day to see what will happen to the ‘elites’, ‘ypap’ and other cronies bear the VIOLENCE upon them by the very angry and violent crowd of Singapore. Its not a matter of if, its a matter of when.
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Now Singaporeans know what happened when there is no QA or QC in parliament. And the only QA/QC that can do the job is the opposition. Not just one or two but at least 1/3 of total MPs in parliament.
Start telling your friends and relatives what they need to know and what they need to do. Before it is too late.
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Simple answer. HDB prices is part of the whole scheme to keep singaporean poor. Poor translate to hunger and keep singaporean on their toes.
It will increases higher productivity as we work harder to get the same level of comfort as before. For the same level of comfort in Australia, we probably would have to work twice, if not thrice, as hard to achieve the same level.
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@Be Honest –
>>Referring to quote ” You can fool some of the people all the time ….”
Well that is enough, the auntie and uncle of Singapore they are the fool and continue to be fooled all the time. No problem they love it. They believe and trust the PAP 100% and they don’t mind been fooled.
The young people in Singapore, they are very smart and they are questioning the disgraceful things that happened in the past. The fathers and the mothers of these children, they are shameful and a disgrace to have sold the future of their children by voting PAP to the chagrin of their children.
Citizens of Singapore, together we must convince, coerce and remove all scales in the eyes of the old people in Singapore. They are the cause of all trouble by not voting in opposition.
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When President Ong Teng Cheong asked about the financial reserves, the government said it would take 56 man years to produce a dollar-and-cents value of the immovable assets.
What is “1 man year”? The government never gave us a satisfactory answer. Don’t we have an Auditor General? Don’t we require Temasek Holdings and GIC to do annual audits? Don’t we also require HDB to do the same?
How long would it take the government to give Singaporeans an accounting of the HDB? This should be easy unless they do not have the intent to reveal.
Don’t we have an opposition? Didn’t Chiam See Tong and Low Thai Khiang not see through this?
P.S.
There was another matter concerning Ong Teng Cheong: the sale of the POSB (to DBS). POSB was a statutory board whose reserves are to be protected by the president. Without first informing Mr. Ong the government put the bill to Parliament. Ong’s office had to inform the government that their procedure was wrong. This surely is another case of shoot first then ask?
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who is going to pay for Auntie Ho’s investment losses after opening the books?
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singaporeans are so-called highly educated.
the strange thing is they do not question.
how educated is that? questions in our face. They go on living like these questions belong to someone else.
this is why. the mother of all why. the status quo.
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HAHA sorry to laugh but you are asking the govt/hdb to admit that they have been robbing us blind of our hard earned money all these years?
I say dont wait for smoke-screen replies, just vote opposition to truly get the message across to those useless buffoons!!
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Excellent analysis. We tend to forget that land is bought by the Government at below market value. TR should highlight this issue come election time, and see how Mah Bow Tan can “defend” this policy.
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If it is eventually revealed that there is an element of truth that part of our HDB housing payments actually end up as profits or surplus funds for Temasek to gamble away at its pleasure, do you think PAP would dare to present the true costs of our HDB flats (which will reveal the extra profits/funds) and risk its political future ?
And for that matter, if it is revealted that each Singaporean is actually overpaying by say 20% of the price of each HDB flat, would any Singaporean still believe our PAP govt are such generous angels to give each Singaporean family such a valuable asset like what LKY has recently claimed ?
Would we still vote PAP if we manage to find out that PAP govt are actually taking us as suckers ?
So nobody is going to reveal anything at all costs ? The consequences may be disastrous as far as PAP is concerned ?
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All their figures pluck from the marbolo smoke, how to reveal the breakdown *lol*
Seriously they really got things to hide, if revealed you can be sure that marbolo grc will be opposition’s
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For the land price, all are under the government. Wat HDB paid for the land, end of the day , the government dun loss a SINGLE CENT, they juz transferred the money to another department. Dun be fooled by PAP! They always like to give u cent and give a dollar back from u! If u vote for them, they can bully u! Complain also no use. Vote them OUT! Vote oppositions!
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People in HDB constituency does not bother if Mah borrow or still, they are more interested whether the conservancy charges paid to the town council is properly used for their well being. Stop thinking that Mah will be voted out because of high HDB prices, that is simply not going to work.
In the end of the day, they will ask themselves who they rather trust, PAP or opposition. It is not for netcitizens to decide but the people of the nation to decide and chances are they will still vote PAP.
These issues are too complicated for auntie and uncle, so at the end of he day, they are still concern with their bread and butter. If there is job, they will vote PAP. When the houses are payable through smaller monthly installment even if it takes a hundred years of repayment, they will vote PAP.
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I don’t think they will ever reveal the truth not unless LKY kicks the bucket and more opp MPs gained into parliament to demand and open up the entire closet of these greedy MIW. If not, no way will they ever dare review the whole truth to the people of singapore.
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hi there
1. well, i suppose it will take one year or more for some “esc” to come out with details.
2. this is transparency 101 in sinkieland.
3. what’s there to hide anyway!
4. the hdb mission : “home for everyone” is somehow questionable.
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Let me attempt to answer the question raised by this article on why HDB can reveal in 1981 and not now.
Of course they have the information. Who would be foolish enough to suggest they don’t ?
Now, the answer is, its because Singapore Majority do not Question about it to Demand an answer. Only an insignificant minority of talents are concerned about this. The rest BoChap.
Imagine. Just imagine. 51 percent of singaporeans petition and say they want it. Of course the answers will come out. dun believe me? its ok. hahaha.
u know and i know. thats all that matters.
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I revisited the Enron story and pondered over its sobering lessons. There are many sources online.
http://wcam.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Exclusive_Outlook/2005_EO/August_2005_Newsletter_email.pdf
http://www.naturalnews.com/017131_Enron_America_investors.html
There’s also a book & video “The smartest guys in the room” a real eye-opener.
Here’s what I gathered:
1. Enron had the culture of ‘Greed is good’. i.e. Money is
everything….you die your business.
2. Lack of checks and balances allowed figures to be massaged
again and again.Mark-to-market accounting inflated and
improved their figures
3. Creative accounting to confuse everyone. The Enron
account was a blackbox. Just believe the figures and don’t
bother what’s going on inside, its too confusing.
4. People were afraid to ask questions or risk threats &
humiliation…when they finally did, it was too late.
5 Others defended it as they were benefiting from the Enron
system with millions paid out in fees (eg Banks+Arthur
Andersen)
6. When short of cash, Enron kept increasing utility prices
for California. They had all sorts of ‘ingenious’ ways and
excuses to increase the prices. Those who couldn’t afford
it had their power cut off. Yes it happened.
7. Top execs lavished themselves with millions in pay and
bonuses even as Enron sank.
8. When the Enron bubble finally burst, the biggest losers
were their low-level employees who were
kept in the dark by the top execs (who cashed out their
stock options) and in the end not only did they lose their
jobs, they also lost all their retirement/pension funds.
Now I’m not saying we are another Enron bubble but the seeming similarities are plentiful and making me nervous. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and that our leaders will allay our fears with more transparency in their stats, figures and our national reserves. We need less materialism, and more heart for the down and out Singaporeans. Many of whom will have little or nothing left for retirement.
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Correct me if I am wrong:
You say Sim Lian Construction Co. has been “awarded a contract worth $99.8 million by HDB” for building “total of 774 dwelling units.”
This means $99.8m is all that Sim Lian is going to get from HDB, which means it includes their profit (unless of course they are working on cost-to-cost basis, which is highly unlikely). I am not familiar with the profit margins in the construction industry, but if I assume it’s 20%, it would mean the unit cost is much lower – closer to 100K (about $103150).
HDB can actually sell each unit at $200K and still pocket 100% returns.
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WHY THE HDB DONT BUILD A 30-STOREY HDB BLOCK?,
Instead of a 15-storey block.
Each 30-storey block houses double the amount of ppl, n THE PRICE OF EACH FLAT CAN BE REDUCED.
WHY HUH HDB, WHY HUH?
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By allowing people to borrow even if they can’t afford and the ability to place them in debt for their entire life is how we make people continue to be “slaves” in Singapore and work for their entire life. As a young Singaporean, I cannot imagine how some people can put up with loans lasting 20 years to 30 years. If you can live up to the age of 100, you practically were in debt for 20% or 30% of your life. You don’t have your freedom and you can’t hand over your “HDB assets” which is your home to the next generation. The cycle repeats if this govt still stays in power to implement the same policy.
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If you look at the private condos at Orchard area, how high are they, 50 storeys?
WHY NOT 50-storeys HDB blocks.
More units/flats on a piece of land, houses more ppl, n priced lower for each unit/flat.
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Just wanted to mention 2 more seeming simliarities:
9. Whenever Enron’s other ventures turned sour,(eg the power plant in Maharashtra India) they would intensify their milking of the Californians to cover those losses.They milked billions out of the Californians. It was their convenient cashcow.
10. While many employees were in the dark esp those in the subsidiaries, many Enron employees on the other hand have to share the blame as they kept quiet even when they suspected something was amiss. They kept quiet as they thought they too benefited from the system, with jobs and stocks at risk if they blow whistles. So it was not just fear but self-interests that kept many quiet. But in the end they lost big too.
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@NATIVE CITIZENS – some expert ever say here, our land cannot contain more than 6 million people because of the strength of our soil. If we build too many 50 storey building, the land may give way. I am sure you don’t want to live 6 feet underground.
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It is not that they cannot. Certainly they can, else how can they know how much to price per unit? Its almost a requirement.
Rather they do not want to let us know. else we will be running riot in front of parliament house.
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Back in the 80’s, the Home Affair Minister was Mr Ong Pang Boon, an MP with a heart who stood for the interest of Singaporeans, esp those in Telok Ayer. He will do what is best in the interest of the common people.
Forward into present time, the minister of home affair has his interest focussed on making his books look good so that he can boast about his achievements. he claimed he can give his best to singaporeans, and it remain till date as a claim only. Unlike Mr Ong Pang Boon, facts and figures dun lie, no claims from him, just plain fact. If the current hdb prices is used as a yardstick, mah has over-achieved – at the expense of the public at large.
Will mah bow tan show us the real figures?
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The definition of cost is the price paid to acquire.
How much does HDB paid for the land? Zero.
The only cost component is the construction cost. It is another bullshit from PAP.
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frankly , they open the books no use . All 3rd class citizens don’t understand a thing . PAPAYAs are world class elite who can count BILLIONS but we cannot .
Open book on temasek you all also cannot see
open book on GIC you all also cannot see
open book on HDB you all also cannot see
In the emd , the world class PAPAYAS help singaporean to make the numbers simple by using the media and newspaper .
They use such easy to understand word such as GIC is still ok , Temamsek is still ok , HDB is still ok .
see how good they are ..
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PAP is using us and now the PRs to drive the cost of land in the following manner:
1. use COV to raise the prices of resale.
2. with higher resale HDB prices, the new flat will be higher.
3. that means the land price can be set higher. (I actually think the construction cost is kept down, at least way below the inflation of flat prices, so the only thing that was inflated is land prices).
4. that drains our CPF savings so that PAP doesn’t have to give out so much CPF at 55. That is further enhanced with their minimum sum scheme.
5. this govt has NO intention to make its people life easy.
This is the reason why it has stopped revealing the construction cost of flats.
And this govt still thinks Singaporeans don’t know how to count with the number of accounting graduates that its university is producing every year.
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But who is responsible for the works and achievements of MBT? in layman terms, who is his superior who ask him to do the work he so cleverly has done for such a unimaginable period of time?
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I concur with Ah Lam on Tue, 2nd Feb 2010 4:05 pm .
Our kind leaders are caring for the people. That is why they served. i think.
They are very busy wan u know. Serving people.
If insignificant number of voices babbling wanting to know the answers, do you think its Significant an issue for them to entertain? They definitely would love to but they are too busy on more important issues.
But if Really, really lah, really as in hypothetica only hor, IF really got >50% petition for the answer, i no no waht would happen leh. I really der no no wan leh.
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This is Singapore PTE LTD so everything must make money. I don’t believe in any subsidy at all including the ployclinic and hospital.
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ALL dogs are licking the same old master . So far , no MP dare to even go against the master’s policy .How to improve and lead singaporeans ??
Frankly , old master also dunno his policies can work or not . cannot work , blame the citizens being lazy .
work or not, he still draw MILLION dollar salary .
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@NATIVE BORN CITIZENS going the way of the DODO BIRDS on Tue, 2nd Feb 2010 5:27 pm
The higher the building, the costlier it will be to build per unit. This is because of the additional piling stuffs. Im not an expert but this is how it is.
That is also why sky scrapers are few in numbers.
But anyway, when the PRs and foreign workers go back to their developed nations(which is most of the time better), u will have plenty of empty flats to choose from.
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MPs NOWADAYS ZERO COMPASSION, IF YOU HANDICAP, THEY PRETEND YOU DONT EXIST.
Few examples we know, probably tip of ice berg,
http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/09/30/town-council-took-unemployed-man-to-court-for-sc-arrears/
http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/11/30/eunos-residents-protest-against-hdbs-lift-upgrading-programme/
http://www.todayonline.com/Voices/EDC091126-0000059/Direct-lift-access-not-always-possible%E2%80%93HDB
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/09/handicapped-resident-applies-for-aid-with-mp-but-faces-difficulties/
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/12/transport-ministry-and-ptc-wash-their-hands-off-public-transport-subsidy-for-people-with-disability-issue/
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@just a guy on Wed, 3rd Feb 2010 12:41 am
Quote, “The higher the building, the costlier it will be to build per unit. This is because of the additional piling stuffs. Im not an expert but this is how it is”. Unquote.
Just for your info, the foundation & piling costs is about 8 to 10% of the overall costs of the Project.
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The reason is simple.
If Mah Bow Tan lets you know the cost price, he cannot overcharge you when you buy a flat.
He needs to milk Singaporeans to pay his 2 million dollar per year salary.
The PAP is really a wolf in shepard’s clothing.
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Indeed.
How much profit should a government owned statutory board make?
What prices SLA (Singapore Land Authority)have been charging HDB for acquiring land use for building public housing to result in the so called 2 billion deficit?
For the huge HDB deficit, seems like it has been charging market rate for land prices?
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Till we get a new government or a two-party or multi-party system we are simply going to curse, whine and wish and yet be
t the mercy of PAP and their minions thru govt agencies egs – LTA,CPF,HDB … which all lack transparency excepting what is published or propagated in the local media.
There are no independent bodies or independent organizations in Singapore that can verify the costs, the claims, the published statistics and …. .
We voted them in and trusted and what has happened now?
Never make the mistake again or be lulled into complacency especially with the current Government.
PAP is simply a self-serving party and Singaporeans are being unwise to keep them in power.
It is time that they are kicked out (voted out)
and hopefully the wise would vote in more oppostion
and see them (PAP) for what they are and not be taken in by what is spouted in the local media.
The local media is totally unreliable and simply a mouthpiece. They don’t have independent journalists but simply reporters regurgitating what party members or Ministers send out to them.
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@Singaporean on Wed, 3rd Feb 2010 10:12 am
I know this is not a place for this but from what i know the cost of piling does not increase proportionally the deeper it goes.
Anyway I will go do some research and maybe write abt it someday.
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Mr Horse ( MBT ) and the old Emperor, please show us the cost of building a Flat!
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It’ll be good if they can get international auditing firms to audit and publish publicly whereby there’ll be other democratic western countries as watchdogs.
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I hope Temasek Review (or some of your supporters with the right technical expertise) is backing up this entire site on a regular basis so that all these can be accessed easily should Temasek Review go down around the next Singapore election, which I suspect could “inexplicably” happen. Our government would not like unvarnished truth floating around freely during that time.
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The solution to this whole thing is very simple. Convert all calculations to the valuation of HDB flats and even private housing using the depreciation method with a residual value and all these speculators will be driven off once and for all. After all, the government wants the people to keep spending right? The question is whether the government has the guts to use this strategy, which is actually in line with their normal tune of “biting the bullet”…
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Actually Hor, this website keeps telling people to vote for Opposition. But before the election comes, PAP just have to give out some more cash, & votes will come their way…..
I know it, because i am one of them….Many people in this website also.
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To control the people, the PAP needs the people to focus primarily on eking out a decent living. Therefore, it is necessary that the necessity of life (housing, health care, utilities) are high so that people will have to work long and hard to pay for these cost.
The PAP government can easily make life easier for the people BUT it won’t do it. If people are not working their butt out, they will have the time to think about matters like democracy, freedom of speech and association, human rights – things that are valued in developed society – and that would lead to more challenge to the rule of the PAP. The PAP didn’t anticipate that the younger generations are not as focus on the bread and butter issues. Thus, the challenge to PAP domination of Singapore.
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PAP has changed character over the years – from a more caring and compassionate one to a commercialized one where everything has a dollar value.
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It is quite obvious that HDB has changed its mind since 1981 about revealing simple facts that affect 80% of our population (including the PRs), such as the cost of flat construction.
Any uncle slogging in the construction site might be able to estimate for you the construction cost and tell you the trend over the years. But HDB prefers to make it an unofficial Official Secret.
Therefore it is time for us to just FORGET about asking them. We can make our own estimates of prices, as we have done so at the beginning of this web page. And we can plot our own trends over the years. And we can plot our own land prices estimations over the years.
This is what independence is about, not sitting by the feet of HDB waiting for answers to drop off from their table. Do It Yourself. Majulah Singapura!
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“But before the election comes, PAP just have to give out some more cash, & votes will come their way…..”
But this time is different. People knows that whatever cash those Pappy give, it is from your own money. People will still vote for PAP for these vote buying, but this time, the vote is the vote of NO CONFIDENCE !
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