Breaking news: Lighthouse Evangelism Pastor Rony Tan issues public apology on his remarks about Buddhism
February 8th, 2010 | 
Author: Written by Our Correspondent
Lighthouse Evangelism Pastor Rony Tan has just issued a public apology for his remarks made about Buddhism a few weeks ago on his website:
The apology was broadcast over Channel 5 news on 8 February 2010 at 2130 hours. According to a report by Channel News Asia, the Internal Security Department (ISD) has called up Pastor Rony Tan “in connection with his comments and insinuations about Buddhism and Taoism at his church sessions.” It is not known if further action will be taken against Pastor Tan.
Pastor Tan made the remarks a few weeks ago to his congregation and was recorded and posted on his website initially. Though it has been taken off, a netizen draven02000 managed to upload it on Youtube where it sparked an outcry in cyberspace.
The two video clips were subsequently posted on Hardwarezone Forum on 3 February 2010 which drew widespread condemnation from netizens.
The Temasek Review published the news on its site yesterday, prompting some angry readers to lodge a police report against Pastor Tan.
Below is the full text of Pastor Rony Tan’s apology:
“I have received a number of emails from people who have been saddened and hurt by the testimonies of an ex-monk and an ex-nun. I realized that my presentation and comments were wrong and offensive. So I sincerely apologize for my insensitivity towards the Buddhists and Taoists, and solemnly promise that it will never happen again.
When we have received those emails, we immediately removed the video clips from our website. I urge those who have posted those clips on the YouTube to remove them as well.
After reading the frank views from those emails, I was also prompted to tell my members not only to continue to love souls, but also to respect other belief and not to ridicule them in any way, shape or fashion.
Let’s put our goal to build a harmonious Singapore a top priority.”
EDITORS’ NOTE:
The Temasek Review welcomes Pastor Rony Tan’s apology and we urge netizens to forgive him and let the matter rest. We will respect the wishes of Pastor Tan and remove the video clips from our website.
Related articles:
1. VIDEO: Pastor Rony Tan’s comments on Buddhism
2. Hardwarezone forumers up in arms over Pastor Rony Tan’s remarks
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Sorry also must explain. Why did he do it in the first place? He better come clean and explain himself. We’ve got videos of him committing the wrongdoing. Sorry also must explain.
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Lets bygone be bygone. No one is perfect. Move on.
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Let the matter rest ‘cos he’s the head of a church that has over 10000 members?
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I don’t think this idiot is sincere in apologizing. In the first place, as a religious man, he should know jolly well that he should not stage such a despicable show to mock other religion. By doing such an despicable thing in an congregation and then recorded and posted in his website show that he has the conscious evil intention to mock the compassionate and foregiving religion of Buddhism.
I think he is intentionally testing the water to see how far he can go to make his religion looks good and other religions look bad.
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I am having difficulty accepting his apology.
First, ’saddened and hurt by the testimonies of an ex-monk and an ex-nun’. It was not their testimony, it was his show of disrespect that was at issue. To suddenly be so humble as to downplay his role in the whole event does not befit the charisma of an evangelistic speaker.
Second, ‘When we have received those emails, we immediately removed the video clips from our website.’ His immediate response was to remove all evidence of it occurring ? That hardly shows remorse or repent.
It’s sad that it takes external agencies to bring this issue to light. I would hope all members of the congregation be more engaged to hold their appointment holders responsible.
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An Apology is not enough, he must face the law … the ISD should deal with him with the National Law.
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Thanks, TR
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Good for Pastor Tay. At least this minister of God is humble enough to admit his mistakes, unlike our more secular ministers in government.
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Pastor Rony Tan,
Although you have issued a public apology & I am not certain whether those being affected (“hurt”, “saddened”, “angered”, etc) by your shallow reasoning & insensitivity will forgive you, I seriously do not think that you deserve to be any religion leader.
- You are a danger to Singapore religion harmony as you will mislead/misguide your religion followers with your rubbish.
- You spread ill/bad-feelings to others, directly or indirectly.
As one of those affected, I will only feel safe if you relinquish your Pastor (leader) role and be a religion follower instead.
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I don’t know this pastor Rony, so don’t know if he is sincere on his apology. Surely the viewer can see lots of laughter and throwing sarcastic remarks in the video clips. The audience was having a good laugh too.
I pity the ex-Monk for a pawn he is, please see his uneasy left hand always behind.
The audience, i don’t know if they are there for entertainment or to enrich themselves.
Lastly the pastor, next time face off with a high ranking monk, and not a ex-Monk if you are doing an academic discussion on this religious topic.
I feel this whole saga is like a marketing campaign, so sad.
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How about the 3 youths who posted sedition comments on facebook? why they are not given a chance to issue a apology?
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SO IT’S OK LA, JUST DO N APOLOGISE???????????
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I wonder why the ISD let him off easily. Anyhow, to be fair, the police should drop those charges against the poly kids for making racist remarks on Facebook.
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Also why are those Alqaeda members who were planning to bomb our MRT stations sent for brain-washing while Pastor Rony can go off with an apology ??
Can the Alqaedas just issue “SORRY” and that’s it? Pastor Rony’s speeches and beliefs are no different from those extremists.
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pastor tan, you speak good english for an old man, most people your age are illiterate.
well done.
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It is one thing to forgive but another thing to forget. It is not right to remove the video just because he apologized, what’s done was done, you cannot just erase everything like it did not happened. He should learn from his mistake and this should be his and others reminder of what kind of society we are leaving in.
My apologies if anyone feel offended about my comment.
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Should the man stick to what he preached? why say sorry? is it an admission to wrong doing?
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http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2661905
PEOPLE at HWZ not happy with just an apology and case closed.
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doctorwho
It will be interestng to see him in a face off with the Dalai Lhama.
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Since all the other seditious cases end up with jail term, I do not see why this case is so different. If by apologising would mean no need to sit in jail, then why previous cases were not given a chance to apologise?
I am not surprised that he should land in jail. If he doesn’t, I’m surprised!
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@■The Patriot on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:01 am
HE TRIED AND WON.
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compared to the teenagers?the message is wrong.does it mean if one is a religious leader,commit seditious act, but could get away with just an apology?
whoever commit seditious act should not get away easily, no matter who they are.
does it mean that anyone can just do it,apologise and move one?
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If there wasn’t an outcry, you bet he will apologise??? Can the NCCS and all churches issue a statement on their website to assure that they would not polarise other religions in future, to come clean?
damage done, but not too late to prevent future mistrust.
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Rony’s apology looks like it’s good enough to get the police off his back. Looks like a few emails managed to change his mind (perhaps 1 or 2 from the police or ISD). WOW! how do u do that? I can’t even change my parents’ minds about anything and yet in a matter of days a few emails could change his religious outlook on buddhism!
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Let him or her who is without sin cast the first stone.
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The Buddha says, ‘If anyone were to speak ill of me, my teaching and my disciples, do not be upset or perturbed, for this kind of reaction will only cause you harm. On the other hand, if anyone were to speak well of me, my teaching and my disciples, do not be overjoyed, thrilled or elated, for this kind of reaction will only be an obstacle in forming a correct judgement. If you are elated, you cannot judge whether the qualities praised are real and actually found in us.’ (BRAHMA JALA SUTRA) Such is the unbiased attitude of a genuine Buddhist. The Buddha upheld the highest degree of freedom not only in its human essence but also in its divine qualities. It is a freedom that does not deprive human beings of their dignity. It is a freedom that releases one from slavery to dogmas and dictatorial religious laws or religious punishments.
[Courtesy of “What Buddhists Believe” by Dr. K. Sri. Dhammanada http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/whatbelieve.pdf
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At least e old man admits his mistakes n apologise.
There r some politicans who refuse to apologise and claim whatever they do is for the good of the citizens
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CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME……..
What’s the difference between this case and the below case?
http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/02/06/arrest-of-three-youths-for-posting-racist-remarks-on-facebook-who-is-a-greater-threat-to-social-harmony/
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In the nun video clip last moment, Pastor said “when buddha was about to die, do you know what he said to his disciples, i am still searching for the way.”
Then pastor imitate buddha passing away, with a noob of his head with a snooze like falling asleep. The audience laughs.
Pastor then said when Jesus comes, “i am the way”. Audience applauds.
Apology not accepted, wait long long till your next life. Wait you don’t believe in next time. Too bad.
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He should have apologised weeks ago before this incident became such a talking point for the last few days. Even he apologised now the damage has been done and the trust between Buddhism and Christianity has been damaged. He should show his sincerity by posting another clip on his website of a sermon on religious tolerance and admit his mistakes infront of his congregation and to exhort them to emulate Christ of loving thy neighbour. The very central tenet of Christianity is humility and love and he should carry his cross and walk that path. If he is sincere, we should forgive him as he is just a man.
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知耻近乎勇。
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It’s not the testimonies of the ex-mon and ex-num that people are upset about! It’s the pastor’s lack of respect for another religion that offended everyone. Stop pushing the blame on others lah!
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This is Karma.
Play with fire and get torched. Well done~
Do not do unto others as you would expect they should do unto you… hence “cause and effect”.
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The simple apology on his website is definitely not enough. He need to do more to show his sincerity for the grave error he has done at his level as a head of a leading church in the country.
He should have realized his mockery of the “Buddha” pass away joke is so wrong! Is he present there to witness the moment? How could he say something without verification in front of his followers?
This is so unbelievable to me….
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A
Past Sedition Cases
===================
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_382751.html
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_386244.html
“SEND a strong message to those whose actions can create disharmony and discord in Singapore.
This call was made by the prosecution on Thursday when it pushed for jail sentences of between two and six months for a Christian couple convicted of distributing and possessing seditious publications.”
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He said satan sent demons to distance man from god through fake religion like buddhism. His latest apology statement says he will tell his member to respect other belief such as buddhism. Why does he suddenly encourage his members to respect people who chose demons over god?? I think the real victims are his followers. They seem to pick up whatever trash he threw to them.
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it’s ok to apologise and move on if:
The group you offend won’t come after you.
So he probably doesn’t need to go to jail since Buddhists are not well organised so that’s no need to make an example of him. the 3 teenagers however offended…u connect the dots.
I’m a buddhist but i frankly don’t think he needs to apologise since his views are quite common among christians anyway. (You must be living under a rock in a dark hole if you don’t know by now).
On the lighter side, since he apologised – is there or isn’t there reincarnation and karma??? ROTFL
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I’m ambivalent about this, frankly. While there’s certainly value to having some degree of policing against inflammatory topics, this also runs counter to the whole principle of free speech. Like it or not, many faiths do traditionally preach that other faiths are false. I’m not sure if it’s truly right to ask a devout believer to “water down” his/her expressions of faith just to serve temporal national interests (no matter how vital). But then again there probably is a place for some out-of-bounds markers for public speech. It’s a tough issue with few absolute answers.
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Is the apology made out of sincere remorse or an edict by ISD? Rony claimed his apology came about after receiving several emails (presumably) from his congregation. No one in his right frame in Singapore would ever believe that the apology came from Rony unless he was invited for an INTERVIEW with ISD.
What a COWARD he is as I labelled him so (in the other thread).
Any Singaporean of any religion would be very naive to think that a gimmicky display of one-upmanship by Rony is anything new. This trick (similar to Copperfield) was already carried out by American evangelists a long time ago: getting converts to testify against their former faith.
Fortunately, Buddhists in applying wisdom and compassion do not imitate what Rony did. Let it be known that it is also possible for ex-Christians who embraced Buddhism to similarly ridicule Christianity.
Rony would do well to debunk the many books written by very articulated thinkers who have criticised Christianity. Using two very ‘insecure’ and ‘unstable’ personalities in an ex-monk and ex-nun to thumb Buddhism is cowardly. I for one would dismiss him as a leader of a church if I happened to be a member. As for the rest of the congregation of the Lighthouse, may I say that you are equally coward.
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@Peace-lover
You have posted a good quotation from the sutta. And provided the link for those who sincerely wants to know.
As far as my own experience and encounters are concerned, I find Buddhists are more knowledgeable about Christianity than the other way round. I am not saying that no Christian knows much about Buddhism. I am saying it is rather rare because Christians are told that other religions are wrong and should avoid.
Buddhists on the other hand are free and told to explore, see for themselves and question.
Rony would find himself ‘disappearing or lost’ if he would face-off with a learned Buddhist scholar-monk who would probably be able to quote the Bible better than Rony is able to utter any sutta. Why bring to stage a wannabe ex-monk or ex-nun who appears to me to be very unstable and insecure?
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According to the beliefs and claims of early agonastic
Christians as well as the recent discovery of the Gospel
of Judas, Jesus claimed that the jealous God (from Old testament) was (or you can say is) not a true god, good
deity.
Jesus, the Jewish Rabai, could have been a disciple of
Buddha’s philosophy as Maruyan emperor, Buddhist king
Ashoka had sent his peace missions to the Greek, and
the old silk road passed Middle East where Jesus as
the learned scholar (Jewish religious scholar) could
have exposed to Buddhism. Buddha has established
about 500 years earlier than Christ and the Buddhist
missions reached to Celtic Braitain long before the
Christ was born.
What Jesus did could have been done by any good Buddhist.
He managed to ban sacrificing rituals in his followers -
Jews used to offer sacrificial lamb to the jealous God
- Jesus devised the holy trinity doctrine, and preached
followers (Christians) that the father allowed the son
(Jesus) to be sacrified as the sacrificial lamb (for the
man kind). Brilliant move indeed, that way he managed to
stop that barbaric animal killing practice.
As a Buddhist I can accept Jesus as a good man who did
exactly a Buddhist would have done or might want to do.
But that evangalist pastor was just a charlaton who
wants to put a wedge between two great religions.
Every age has own charlatons and no wonder.
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“What Buddhists Believe” by Dr. K. Sri. Dhammanada http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/whatbelieve.pdf
In the expanded 4th edition, under chapter 14 and the topic ‘Religion of Freedom’ – Buddhism does not prevent anyone from learning the teachings of other religions. In fact, the Buddha encouraged His followers to learn about other religions and to compare His teachings with other teachings.
This is something you will not hear from Christ, his diciples, pastors and nominal Christians.
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Not sure what the clamour for him to be arrested and the rest of the fuss is all about.
For God sake, he was criticising Buddhism, not the PAP government. Plus he was doing so from a pulpit. It was not as though he was distributing leaflets critical of the government.
Loosen up people. Get a sense of perspective.
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What goes around comes around, rony. May you just rot in hell.
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In my opinion, it is ok to discuss the concept of reincarnation, or for that matter to discuss other religions, whether their teachings make sense to you, etc. We want our society to be open, and being open will lead to better, clearer understanding.
I think it is ok to challenge the Buddhist on their teachings of “reincarnation”, and challenge the Christian on their ideas of God and the Bible.
But it is another matter altogether to deliberately set up to spread falsehood and ridicule other religions, especially by a religious leader.
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What is done, is done. Removing the video from youtube cannot undo what is done, and people will not be able to see for themselves and understand why it is wrong.
Better way is to keep the video on youtube, with the apology satements include under the info box, and use it as a negative example, so people can learn from this episode.
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let’s forget Ronnie Tan and his insincere apology probably
ISD induced. There are many more Ronnie Tans especially amongst the charismatic churches. Their DNA are as extreme as Al Quaeda
in philosophical thoughts though not in physical violence but in mental violence. What is required is vigilance that their actions
private or public do not set up a chain reaction amongst other religions’ religious extremists leading to longer term polarisation of this society which will lead to our eventual demise. The mainstream religious leaders of every religion should
genuinely cooperate and make sure this does not happen. They should not be short sighted and think only of protecting their turf. I was a little disappointed the mainstream churches did not come forward to caution Ronnie Tan, this would have given
comfort to other religions’ followers and build goodwill
towards christians. My worry is over longer term if each religion sees each other with a sauntered eye; in future leadership in both political and social life will be chosen not on merit
but with bias and worst even if the chosen one is by meritocratic
process the trust will not be there. This is a situation not to
be left to chance and I urge the Inter religious organisation to be more proactive on this front.
The real problem is not today but a few decades down the road
especially in times of economic stress and weak political leadership. Whoever leads singapore must be truly colorblind
and religionblind and be fearless in applying the law. Despite
all the brickbats hurled against him, MM is such a person, though
I may not agree with his handling of opposition leaders and other policy issues.
the fundamentals of every mainstream religion is to be kind
and charitable towards their fellowman, its the leadership for reasons of ego, power, status etc that polarise , build increasing higher walls of divide amongst the people. Its the
Bush mentality if you are not with me you are against me.
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If every single person takes their chance and does a stunt like this just to apologize after that, then i think there would be no end to it.
I believe if certain people can’t think before they speak, then they should not be holding public speaking appointments.
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My thanks to TR for standing up for religious harmony!
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an about turn and an apology, wonder if his conscious made him to this or was it that coffee session he had with ISD?
As a pastor he has ZERO rights to comment on other religions without threading into a mine field, he should know better and has to be accountable for his actions
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I think this guy is magnanimous enough to realize his mistake to apologise. There are those who insist no wrong, like the Christian couple who claim ignorance when they mailed out seditious material on Islam.
Other non-repentant instances would be the PAP styled ministers who refuse to admit any mistake, and of course AWARE who never see any wrong, being complicit in crime, teaching young underage girls how to have sex.
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I applaud the editor of TR for accepting the apology of Pastor Rony so graciously. Such action reflect good intentions of one good heart unlike some. Bravo to TR for being a responsible blog!!!..In Singapore, we all valued this religion harmony very seriously. Although I am part of this Lighthouse church congregation..the pastor did the right things with sincere apology. I am sure the Pastor will continue to focus and preach more on the words of God from the “Bible”
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@yamizi on Mon, 8th Feb 2010 11:46 pm
Let the matter rest ‘cos he’s the head of a church that has over 10000 members?
As head of the church of over 10000 members, he shuld know that what he say can affect another 20,000 or maybe 30,000 or 100,000. So, his apology is not good enough. The law has to step in to stop it , so a strong message is send to this religious leaders.
So, Can the 3 poly kids offer apology and move on.
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Having attending Lighthouse for more than 5 years and still attending, I am grateful for the gospel message pastor Rony Tan and his leaders have shared to know that there is a supernatural God of Love who is concerned about all our welfare in life on earth. Many have come to this knowledge that they are not alone in this world of suffering and sickness. Many have been healed of emotional, physical and painful experiences that can occur in this life.
I am glad pastor Rony has apologised. Ours is a message of love and forgiveness, of repentance and acceptance by a God of Love and Mercy.
God bless you all.
Laureen
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like i said the last time. he won’t be arrested, cos he is not a teenage facebooker. this guy will be monitored by the ISD for a long time to come.. probably.
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Unlike those politicians who will never admit their wrong doings, at least Pastor Tan had the courage to apologise although damage had been caused to Buddhists and Taoists.
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It is funny that so many people nowadays can just say “sorry” and get away with so many things. Maybe he has some connections “up there” – and I don’t mean heaven or God.
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Compare what the pastor said Vs the case of the three kids from poly. Both are equally serious, infact the case with the pastor carries more weight after all he was speaking as the Pastor and founder of his religious group when making comments which infuriate Buddhism and Toaism.
Cannot see why the 3 kids are punished while the pastor is let off the hook.
He apologized? sure he did and he did it most likely to save his skin, but so did the 3 kids I am sure after they understood the gravity of what they did.
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man are to err, Buddhism followers will forgive his ignorance and unopened mind. even if he don’t apologize, true Buddhist will not take into account of what he do as we are not in the right to judge either. he who judge us are being judge too so why judge.
i believe it is written in bible too.
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Sorry not enough – Rony should be prosecuted and should be punished under applicable laws.
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忘失菩提心而修诸善根，是为魔业。
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he was actually laughing at buddha
then very scared when ISD called up
& now he became a frightened rabbit..!!
Still ISD is the MOST powerful..!!
See, that is why singapore needs a strong government
to prevent some people from stirring religious and racial emotions..
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We should learn to be forgiving, since he is honest about his mistakes and apologised for his insensitive remarks.
As all religions teach about forgiveness, we should give him chance not to repeat the same mistake.
Peace to all!
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an apology won’t do! he is a pastor for Christ sake.moreover in the front page of today ST. A punishment is warrant! Send him to sweep floor in a Buddhist temple for a month.
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There are many more such “speeches” not recorded on video. They are repeated everywhere around just about every corner.
An apology is just the first step. Do more.
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I will say the best and ideal way that pastor can serve his ‘karma’ is to seriously and deeply apply himself and his energies to the study of Buddhism. But he must be seriously committed and not ’study’ like that simple man he spoke with on the stage.
Since the pastor supposedly already has a good ’spiritual’ grounding, I am sure he will make a great and credible ‘witness’ if he later decides to become a serious Buddhist himself. Miracles do happen in every faith.
I feel this is the only way he can redeem his big folly. But then, I do not believe he really repented, though he apologised.
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@participants of lighthouse:
does that mean that because “many have been healed of emotional, physical and painful experiences”, rony had the authority to insult other religions?
more importantly, had he not apologised, would you think what he preached was true? (since he will “continue to focus and preach more on the words of God from the ‘Bible’”)
as always, with great power (to mislead) comes great responsibility (of accepting punishment)
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So finally, this Ro-ny-pooh Tan “apologize” and retract his statements, I seriously think by letting him off the hook this time round, the authority are sending a wrong signal to the public and being double standard.
What about the 3 youths who posted sedition comments on Facebook? Are they given a chance to “apologize” and move on?
If Alqaeda members are considered extremist in mortal’s world context, then this Ro-ny-pooh Tan is no better off, this is not the 1st time he has stirred up controversies.
I think it only right that he get prosecuted, he is a threat to religious harmony just like that who were punished in the eye of the law for committing similar sedition case. This is a serious offence committed in a mutli religion and racial country like Singapore.
ISD cannot just “case closed” after he issued an apology.
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>>#Free Thinker Ditto on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:59 am
>>There are many more such “speeches” not recorded on video. They are repeated everywhere around just about every corner.
An apology is just the first step. Do more.
>>>>
I do agree with this too. As long as these teachings are allowed to fester, more trouble can be expected sooenr or later. The danger is in the teachings themselves. It appears many so-called Christians are taught to belittle and mock ALL other religions, as can be seen by their readiness to convert all and sundry to their brand of belief.
Perhaps a deterence, eg. a short stint in a lockup (but they will no doubt see that as persecution).
Well, this is an interesting world after all.
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You have to look at how the man speaks about reincarnation to know that he is mocking something just because it differs from what he believes in. Mr Rony Tan ( I hesitate to use ‘pastor’ as that name connotes someone who acts responsibly) do you have to prove others ‘wrong’ so that you can be ‘right’? You can be proud of your religion without denigrating anyone else’s. The sound of laughter that you evoke from the audience sends chills down my spine – and I am not even Buddhist!
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Food for Thought:
Once upon a time a senior monk and his disciple were travelling together. They came to the bank of a river and found the bridge was damaged. They had to wade across the river. There was a pretty lady who was stuck at the damaged bridge and couldn’t cross the river. The senior monk offered to carry the pretty lady across the river on his back. The lady accepted. His disciple was shocked by the move.”How can a senior monk carry a lady when we are supposed to avoid all intimacy with females?” thought the little monk. But he kept quiet.
The senior monk carried the lady across the river and his disciple followed unhappily. When they crossed the river, the senior monk let the lady down and they parted ways with her. All along the way for several miles, his disciple was making up all kinds of accusations about the senior monk in his head. This got him madder and madder. But he still kept quiet. And the senior monk had no inclination to explain his situation.
Finally, at a rest point many hours later, the disciple could not stand it any further, he burst out angrily at the senior monk. “How can you claim yourself a devout monk, when you seize the first opportunity to touch a female, especially when she is very pretty? All your teachings to me make you a big hypocrite.”
The senior monk looked surprised and said, “I had put down the pretty lady at the river bank many hours ago, how come you are still carrying her along?”
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If the 3 youths who were charged with making racist remarks on Facebook apologize will they be also let off?
DW
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The government has to enforce the appropriate Singapore laws on Pastor Rony Tan.
If the laws are not invoked, this means there are double standards to our Singapore law. Secondly, other religious leaders will think it is alright to diminish other religions and a simple apology will allow them to get away with it.
For respect to our laws and the future of religious harmony, the problem will have to be nib at its root.
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IF ANOTHER TOM DICK OR HARRY COME UP AND DO THE SAME THING REPEATEDLY, CAN THINGS REMAIN LIKE THAT?
BEING A SENIOR PASTOR, HE IS DEEMED TO HAVE THE CHARACTER AND WISDOM TO BE SENSITIVE TOWARDS OTHER RELIGIONS. WHAT KIND STANDARD IS HE SHOWING?
TIME TO REGULATE THESE RELIGIOUS ORGANISATIONS AND ENSURE THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE PROPERLY SCREENED AND LICENSED/QUALIFIED BEFORE THEY CAN OPEN THEIR MOUTHS ON THE STAGE.
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@aries333
Well, maybe no need to ask him to sweep the floor of a temple. But maybe this Pastor should contact the main leaders of all religions in Singapore to exchange ideas and learn from other religion.
Forcing him to sweep the floor of a temple will not do anybody any favor. Why push a cow’s head into the river when it don’t want to drink?
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For god’s sake. Singapore be CONSISTENT LAAA
This deuschbag was in a position of knowing and higher education. He knew exactly what he was doing. And all he gets is a slap???
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I don’t know if any of you caught it, but he referred to us as souls instead of people. Anyone want to take a guess at what the implies?
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hi there
1. every now and then, sinkieland has some overly zealous religious speaker speaking against others’ practices and beliefs to its sheep.
2. this is one excellent example of “not to shut up”, and respect others’ choice.
3. in sinkieland, each sheep has its own choice to believe and practise.
4. whether it is the truth or manmade-to-believe, it is an individual’s choice.
5. well, at least, tan has the guts to apologise, be it sincere or what.
6. sinkies, come on, move on!
7. who knows, come tomorrow, another “hero” speaker speaking on the same topic!
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This guy got no back bones.
The reason he back track is because ISD ask him to limkopi
This opportunist knows he is in deep shit.
If you believe in something with such conviction, then stand by it even if it cost you your life.
“A human being’s moral integrity begins when he is prepared to sacrifice his life for his convictions”
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Buddha was a good man but he died.
Jesus was a good man but he died…and rise up on the 3rd day!
So what’s there to fight about when your own individual bible already written clearly black and white of your saviour is alive or not…
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Is it because he is a Pastor he should not be arrested? How about the 3 young teenagers who were arrested for passing unintentionaly remarks due to some arguments in the net. The 3 teenagers have no intention and motive compare to this Idiot Pester who not only insult but make mockery and fun of Buddhsim.
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Buddhism is not exclusive for Singapore only, Buddhism is embraced by people around other parts of the world as well. With our Religious Act in Singapore, how the authorities react will be observed by others (with the world media and internet access).
Using religion to fan emotion of the public is like playing with fire and very dangerous in a multi-racial society. It seems the audience agreed with his remarks and reacted spontaneously (can it be the pastor the only person who demonise Buddhism). It must be stop at all cost and person who makes such remark should prove beyond doubt what is being said is acceptable and not retract with a simple apology. Is it done with sincerity?
In this case this pastor is not any youth all teenager.
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In my opinion, it is ok to discuss the concept of reincarnation, or for that matter to discuss other religions, whether their teachings make sense to you, etc. I think it is ok to challenge the Buddhist on their teachings of “reincarnation”, and challenge the Christian on their ideas of God and the Bible. And other religion can also do the same, but these have to be done in a civilise manner.
But it is another matter altogether to use such disparaging tone and contempt words……
It is worse when he deliberately put it up in YouTube, wanting others to watch the sermon. If he was not planning for a wider viewership, i dont know what it was…… He could take it down, but the very act of uploading it to youtube says it all.
He set up to spread falsehood and ridicule other religion.
Why is seditious act not used on him, i really wonder .
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aah-haa on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:30 am
As far as my own experience and encounters are concerned, I find Buddhists are more knowledgeable about Christianity than the other way round.
I am saying it is rather rare because Christians are told that other religions are wrong and should avoid.
Buddhists on the other hand are free and told to explore, see for themselves and question.
Couldn’t have said it better than that! Took the words out of my mouth. When I was much younger, I was taken in by the lovey dovey messages of Christians who came to me with the intention of turning me away from being an idol worshipper. But after seeing just how narrow-minded they are and learning much more about the teachings of Lord Buddha, I am glad that I did not succumb to a momentary lapse of weakness to hold steadfastly to my beliefs.
To all Christians, please undertake some soul searching and examine yourself.
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Dear Pastor Rony Tan
The thought manifests as the word; the word manifests as the deed. The deed develops into habit; and the habit hardens into character. So watch the thought and its ways with care, and let it spring from love. Born out of concern for all beings…
The shadow follows the body and never leaves it. In the same way, as we think, so we become. Teaching of Buddha.
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everything in the media can be taken out of context. whatever religion you are in, it all teaches forgiveness. so reflect upon yourself before you pass judgements. also how you know if he apologise is sincere or not sincere?? you say cannot accept. but who are you to determine whether or not he is being sincere??
i am a freethinker, but after seeing both sides of the story. i think being a freethinker is the best place to be. you all preach forgiveness but you all don’t forgive. some buddist even ask all christians to do some soul searching…what has this got to do with all christians?
i say forgive and if he does it again then you can say he’s not sincere.
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Pastor Rony is a good man. He is not a man to cause any trouble with other religions. He is a man of God.
He may have made a slip, that’s all.
I hope netizens here will not blow this up and cause more problems than his statements.
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If 3 boys can be convicted of posting religiously inclined comments to “ünsettle” the religious harmony of the country, why can’t the religious leader of a 10,000 strong organization be legally convicted as well?
This man is supposed to be highly credible and people who sit on the floor hold him in high regards. Their values are distorted and its attributed to him stating discriminatory comments. Imagine the power a man of this statue can do to people. He has to be severely punished and rightfully so.
This is high time to see how just the legal framework is.
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Never he heard the news in Malaysia between the Muslim and Christian recently?? He want to see that happen again in Singapore!!!!
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Why he was not charged? Double standard? Sorry also must be punished!
It speaks volume of himself and his church by putting down on others religion. If I am his church members, I will distance myself from him and his church.
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He was just trying to show the difference between other religions. I am sure he doesn’t have ill thoughts againsts them.
Sometimes people get carried away, well he did apologize promptly.
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Just watched the 3 videos, cannot imagine that this man is a leader of a church.
He sounds like a con man to me, things he dont agree are demonic thoughts placed into one’s head by Satan/Devil to brand other religions as false religion and, while those from his belief are God’s message.
This man cannot be allowed to get off the hook with a simple apology.
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righteous,
Rony being a pastor when leading the congregation is supposed to be inspired by the Holy Spirit, but seems that HIS holy spirit took him the wrong direction.
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The very first thing in my mind: I don’t understand why do Tan have to talk about Buddhist / Taoist teachings when he is actually conducting a Church session / congregation / Mass?
Do you mean to say during church mass every Sundays, all pastors / priests will gossip to Christians followers about the teachings of Buddhist / Taoist instead of thier own Bible teachings?
I am a Buddhist myself. I had also tried to learn about teachings from other religions eg: Soka. When I attended one of the Soka’s session, they also had invited their followers to come up on stage and share with others about experiences they had gone through in life and how Soka teachings have made them improved themselves. All these was conducted & done without insulting ridiculing other religions AT ALL…
I seriously DON’T UNDERSTAND why TAN have to made negative remarks & comments & actions & laughter to Buddhism / Taoism in order to show Christians the way of light?
Yes, he apologised! However, I don’t think his apology would made the whole thing cool off. This is because, he only apologized after this whole thing was exposed and he had been interviewed by ISD. In my personal point of views, I think he is merely apologising for the SAKE of apologising.
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righteous, go watch those 3 videos before you start coming to his defense.
His actions was well planned as you will noticed he was referring to his notes and led the ex monk and ex nun in the interviews. His actions are clearly not accidental, his intentions was very clear, ridicule the other religions and brand them as false religions associated with Satan and the Devil. These are all his own words.
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You’re all fired!
Those who critised him of making disparaging remarks against Budhhism, and yet by the same thread, you also made disparaging remarks against Christians in return. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
It was the case of an individual who went overboard, and not the religion itself which criticised another. One man’s weakness should not put his religion at fault, nor on other Christians.
You guys blame PAP leaders for massive losses in GIC and Temasek. Why didn’t you blame yourselves too, just like you blamed his (Singapore, by analogy in this case) and Christians (us Singaporeans by analogy in this case)? And it is US who voted THEM in who made THOSE mistakes which resulted in THESE losses.
What the heck. YOU’RE ALL FIRED !
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What will he think if I say Christianity sucks?! How can he say such thing! He is NOT fit to be the leader of the church. I have friends who are also christians, but they respect me as a Buddhist!
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This Rony Guy should be charged.
And if He is not a Singapore Citizen should be expelled.
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we are all human and do make mistakes including pastors or priest of other faiths. Everyone got a choice and if do not like christian faiths..do not go to the church loh!!..but all churches welcome everyone.
You are called to be Chrisitian.To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by[a] Jesus Christ, Mercy, peace and love be yours in abundance.
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This marketing man Pastor Man poisoned the minds of 10000 church members and he is let off by just an simple apology?
He is not sincere and never sincere in his apology if he push the blame on the so called “ex-monk and ex-nun”. Where did he find these two persons to pose as ex in the first place?
It’s so clear Pastor Tan never respect other religions or try to understand other religions. He apologied only because ISD is on his back. What a idiot religion leader. Just wants to sell to the 10,000 church members and their families how only his church is the only Godlike one. Then take monthly contribution from these 10,000 church members. If one has to donate 10% of their salary towards the church, 10,000 members and their families will bring in revenue of at least $100,000 to this church. NO wonder Pastor Tan have to make sure these people don’ run away.
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Why Rony Tan chicken out from his fate after ISD step in ? How to believe and respect him ?
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James Tan
“Let him or her who is without sin cast the first stone.”
Very well said and very appropriate quote (from the Bible) to post here. Sad thing is, the non-Christians may not understand the depth nor meaning of this line.
There is so much hypocrisy here that “Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true.” (Demosthenes)
Perhaps this whole episode is the work of our PAP political master ? The person who took the video tape to TR holds the key. Why do I think that there is a probable government involvement in this affair? It is just like a murder investigation. Who stands to gain? The PAP. Why? Because the people complained and they immediately took action. They showed to the people of Singapore that the PAP government listens to its people (at least for now before the elections). Same with the foreign worker issues. People complain, they come out with some comforting words to show them the PAP is in touch with them.
We must remember Demosthenes the wise Greek philosopher who said that “Beware lest in your anxiety to avoid war you obtain a master.” I sincerely hope this is not another of PAP’s ploy, otherwise netizens here are being fooled again.
Come on TR, let us have the information of the guy who posted the video, or at least let us know why he didn’t go to the police in the first instance but want to let netizens on your forum fan the flames of inter-religious hatred.
This is a fair request.
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Lighthouse Church is NOT the only Church who laugh about idol worshipping and other religions. They often invite people to go up stage to share their ex-beliefs and make a mockery out of it. Being to two churches sermons and both poking fun at the Monkey God in Taoism. Churches have nothing to talk about on stage except to critize other faiths and make theirs seem the righteous best choice. Well maybe one small bible has nothing to say after a while. Stories run out and the churches have to attack other faiths so that their followers will not leave with their donations.
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Come on, Rony Tan is just speaking the truth…if what he said really pinches u, u jolly well wake up your idea and start to look for the truth and stop following the crowd.
The truth will set you free~
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#jaywalker on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:30 pm
>> Pastor Rony is a good man. He is not a man to cause any trouble with other religions. He is a man of God.
>>He may have made a slip, that’s all.
>>I hope netizens here will not blow this up and cause more problems than his statements.
>>>>>
I am very disappointed with your comment. You still don’t get it! Anyone with some basic IQ will be able to discern what the ‘fuss’ is all about. It is a truly a serious matter.
There’s no dispute that the pastor is a good man and a nice chap, and he was not intentionally or consciously out to cause friction, since he was only speaking to his own flock, or even entertaining them in his church.
However, I will dispute that he is a ‘man of God’ just because he is a church leader. I doubt that Jesus would have approved of his antics if He were to be here. Jesus is more wonderful than that. I will even go as far as to say this pastor is a disgrace to Jesus.
The fact that his utterances caused such a serious emotional uproar is itself sufficient prove that it is disturbing enough to warrant swift action to be taken by the authorities.
And his utterances are not simply ‘a slip’ as you put it. On the contrary, his utterances represent his deep-seated personal beliefs, which he will relentlessly pass on to his followers. And herein lies the real danger for the future.
If people like you can still go on taking the matter so lightly even after such a big uproar, I am really sad for everyone. Really.
Shan zai, shan zai.
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YOU’RE FIRED! on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:02 pm
So are you implying that the video poster the problem and not this Pastor?
Chinese saying, dont blame the hawk if you cannot control your chicks.
I praise the video poster for sharing this Pastor’s deeds to the general public. The pastor himself posted it initially only decided to remove it when he finally realised what shit he got his church and himself into.
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Truth on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:09 pm
Come on, Rony Tan is just speaking the truth…if what he said really pinches u, u jolly well wake up your idea and start to look for the truth and stop following the crowd.
The truth will set you free~
Tell you what Mr Truth.
I dare you to repeat what Rony said in public with your real name posted. Trust me you will receive an invite very quickly from ISD. Stop talking “male chicken”.
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I agree with leogirl.
Now we wait and be surprised ok? See if anything happens to him. Don’t be shocked if the 3 kids gets punished and this offensive pastor goes free. This is after all “x-tian” run Singapore.
If Temasek Holdings and GIC can lose hundreds of billions WITHOUT any apology and walk free and still losing billions in the latest UBS by GIC, get used to such nonsense.
Singapore system is like a man with a very chronic case of CANCER, affecting every other healthy part of the body. The only way to possibly save the life of the person is to surgically REMOVE the CANCER.
Now I also APOLOGIZE if I speak truthfully and offend idiot x-tians here who keep defending this pastor. My apology is NOT for what I say but FOR the consistent reckless IDIOCY that motivates offensive actions WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY !!!
I now walk free to go eat some holy lunch ok?
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Al Qaeda alwways attempt to upset the security of the world.
Rony Tan’s comments attempt to upset the harmony of religions in Singapore, whats the diff?! ISD should charge him for that.
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May be more faiths should ask ex-christian, ex-catholic to go up stage and tell their stories why they left the churches? There are so many ex-christians who are converted to other faiths. Why did they leave the church and become other faith followers ?
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when i saw this news, i thought my eyes are playing a trick on me. It a church pastor that have done such an sinned. “Pastor” Rony Tan, R you going to tell your god that you are sorry for what u have done and your god will forgive u? If everyone of us did something wrong and just ask your god to forgive you and you will be free from the Law of the country?
If there is such law, pls let me know. i can rob you and ask the god to forgive me so that i do not need to go jail.
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I maintain my statement that Rony wasn’t sincere in his apology. It came only after the videos were widely circulated and the matter threatens religious harmony.
As leader of a congregation that so many sheeps blindly follow, he knew what he said, acted, and the promptings of the ex-Buddhists were meant to promote Christianity as the ‘only true religion’. In short, he was clearly proselytizing at the expense of Buddhism, not merely preaching what Christ taught. What’s the difference? Check dictionary: proselytize – try to persuade someone to join a religious group. No one would make a din if the pastor was telling his congregation to follow Christ – do good, speak no evil, be unpretentious, be mindful, seek wisdom.
To the many bloggers who advocated forgiveness and forgeting, do note that while these are virtues, they are not weaknesses to be exploited or useful excuses to get somebody out of the bind. Far too often, I find forgiveness and forgeting to be meaningless when the damage, harm, hurt are irrepairable and irreversible.
It certainly take courage to admit to one’s own mistakes, shortcomings and defilements. Rony should go before his congregation and the two ex-Buddhists to apologise and have the ‘confession’ recorded and circulated. Until he does so, I think he is an ignorant coward because he was taking advantage of the fact that Buddhists in general do not react violently to insults and denigrations of the Buddha and Buddhism.
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YOU’RE FIRED!
For goodness sake, not everything in this world is PAP induced. Sure, the current administration isn’t doing well and there is a certain amount of ‘oppression’ in our current society but please, get a hold of yourself (and perspective).
The PAP is not the Nazi Party. They need a wake up call (and some serious shake up).
Some spreading conspiracy theories. It’s people like you that linked Roswell and Martians together.
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If Rony Tan were indeed a man of God and preaching the absolute TRUTH, he MUST not and CANNOT apologise and tell his flock of idiots to now respect other religions. Observe:
“I realized that my presentation and COMMENTS were WRONG and OFFENSIVE……but also to respect other BELIEF and not to ridicule them in any way, shape or fashion.”
What his apology essentially is saying is simply, ” Please, please, please, don’t throw my stupid ass into jail. I’ll lose all my money. Just pray to what you all like ok? Actually, it’s all the same same. My comments were WRONG! Respect other BELIEFS!”
He should have used the biggest weapon of all that fallen x-tians, like Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard and Larry Craig, used to full redemption effect.
“THe DEVIL made me do it !” = NO ACCOUNTABILITY!
Anything new with x-tians anymore?
Boring…zzz.
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Even if they dont jail him they should make him do social work as a punishment eg go clean up a temple or something.
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Quoted from an online blog comment:
pastor rony tan is a joke.
I went to his church last year for good friday only to hear him spend a whole hour making fun of buddhist and taoism via the help of two mediacorp artist ( the “aiyoyo” teacher n her husband)
I sent an email to him thereafter to tell him to stop doing such insulting things and he send me some really lame reply back.
Some people just DONT learn.
Now that the government is involved, he apologises. I dont rem him apologising to me back then. (Im from a buddhist family)
source
http://dhammaprotector.blogspot.com/…-buddhism.html
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Apologise to save your skin?
Hey, if your so call buddha teaching is so good, there shouldn’t be so many ah lian and ah beng stood around e temple smoking merry making etc…not to mention that those who q for the toto or 4D…kinda of make me sick! LOW CLASS!!!
if you think you are so great to be a buddha, go set an example for your god and stop making “chicken little” comments here and there.
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Dear brothers & sisters,
Do not get upset by the whole situation for we yearn for wisdom and through wisdom we understand the whole situation. hence do not need to rebuke anybody remember whatever you said or do, it counts and you are planting that karma seed in u .
Amituofo
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Then Jesus answered Peter:
“Will you really lay down your life for me? I tell you the truth, before the rooster crows, you will DISOWN me three times!
22:54-62 Peter’s fall was his denying that he knew Christ, and was his disciple; disowning him because of DISTRESS and DANGER. He that has once told a lie, is strongly tempted to persist: the beginning of that sin, like strife, is as the letting forth of water. The Lord turned and looked upon Peter.
1. It was a convincing look. Jesus turned and looked upon him, as if he should say, Dost thou not know me, Peter?
2. It was a chiding look. Let us think with what a rebuking countenance Christ may justly look upon us when we have sinned.
3. It was an expostulating look. Thou who wast the most forward to confess me to be the Son of God, and didst solemnly PROMISE thou wouldest NEVER DISOWN me!
The End!
Critic’s note: All self professed x-tians* are hypocrites & dangerous. They see only what they like to see and believe/do only what serves them. Dun pray pray. Ya, they do not pray pray to the real God. They disown Him.
* Do not confuse TRUE Christians with X-tians.
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@Laureen
Had he apologize immediately after taking down the video from his website without the need of ISD involvement that could be seen as more sincere.
Are you there in the crowd laughing when he demonise Buddhism in the video with Rita?
Maybe I will be attending your church this coming Sunday to see all of you repent together all because of your Pastor’s foolishness but I will be there as an observer only.
I am a FreeThinker I think all religions are the same. Taking different path seeing different scenery but the destination is the SAME.
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Need to think over these quotes…and ask ourselves…the paths taken and not taken…
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/religion/
Frankly, i do not accept this “Senior” Pastor and “Respected PUBLIC FIGURE” apology…either he should be charged for causing religious disharmony else he should bloody well leave “his” church for showing his true colors as a “holy” man.
Else the 3 ignorant kids should also be allowed to apologixed, be better from this experience and make productive lives…
as for the cowardly 20 year old self appointed “police” idiot who reported the racist remarks by those youth of facebook, you have just permanently destroyed 3 lives who you should face in facebook and get their racist postings descredited and getting the youth to understand it is wrong…but no you an selfish idiot prefer to really destroyed lifes…which shows the type of low esteem ethics and character clearly in choosing the coward way out by running like a little minded kid to mummy [the police].
Sad.
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I maintain that Rony wasn’t sincere in his apology. It came only after the videos were uploaded to another site, and the matter threatens religious harmony.
Rony knew that as leader of a congregation who revered him, what he said, mocked and the promptings he made on stage in front of them were meant to show that Christianity is the ‘only true religion’. He was proselytizing at the expense of Buddhism not preaching what Christ taught. What’s the difference? Check dictionary: proselytize is trying to persuade someone to join a religious group. Was the pastor telling his congregation to follow Christ’s teaching? None of that!
To the many bloggers who advocated forgiveness and forgetting, it should be noted that while these are virtues they are not weaknesses to be exploited to get someone out of the bind. To me it has become meaningless when damage, harm and hurt are irreparable or irreversible. And Rony had done that and there are people trying to protect him by calling for forgiveness and forgetting.
That Rony was a coward was borne by the fact that he knew Buddhists in general are non-violent against those who belittle or denigrate the Buddha or Buddhism.
It takes courage to admit to one’s mistakes, shortcomings and defilements. Until his ‘confession’ in front of his congregation and the two ex-Buddhists, who were mercilessly used by him, is recorded and the video circulated, he remains a true coward. This is the Truth.
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We should re-think these quotes and truely understand them…of the paths taken and not taken…
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/religion/
I do not accept this Pastor’s apology…he should either be charge for causing religious disharmony else leave “his” church. Please note he is a “Respected” PUBLIC FIGURE.
He has shown his true colors as a “holy” priest.
And it is unfair he can apologize and get aways while the 3 ignorant youths in FB gotten charged…shouldn’t these youth be given the same chance?
As for the other youth who report them, he is no better then the 3 youths as he is another ignorant youth…by reporting to the police instead of descrediting the stand of those x 3 youth…he has destroyed 3 lives…and for what, only the boy who reported to the police know…but it shows really how much ethic and real character he has…which is not much.
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/character/
Sad and Disappointed with all.
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Truth on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:50 pm
so you chicken out after all? dont dare to repeat what the pastor said despite trying to justify his actions?
Since when did I say I was a Buddhist or did I sing praises for them?
Read my post carefully before jumping into conclusions of your own.
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Truth on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:50 pm
Bull’s eye. I’ve said it countless times b4. The source of all these self professed x-tians is how they view themselves. To them, being a chris-lian is High crass one. chris-lians do not smoke hor. They do not buy 4D one. Low crass to Q up legally to get rich. No, no!! gods fobides lei.
chris-lians gets the rich by CONNINGs the peoples in their megabengs churches. chris-lians are edliucated peoples, western-liced, moderns.
If you are so garang here hiding behind your maiden name, take up the challenge of “Apologise to save skin”.
Stop being an ASS! Unless clearly you are the ass-lovechild of your ah beng and ah lian bloodline when S377A was legalised especially for your household.
Wa, so low crass one…..”puuuuuut!” The sound of your birth. Kena Sai ! Amen!
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@Great Asia
” The senior monk offered to carry the pretty lady across the river on his back. The lady accepted. His disciple was shocked by the move. ”
The senior monk could have just instruct his disciple to carry the pretty lady or at least let them take turn
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>>Truth on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:50 pm
>>Apologise to save your skin?
Hey, if your so call buddha teaching is so good, there shouldn’t be so many ah lian and ah beng stood around e temple smoking merry making etc…not to mention that those who q for the toto or 4D…kinda of make me sick! LOW CLASS!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
To Truth,
If you dare to repeat that, I have little doubt that you will be the next one to apologise, believe me.
What you have said also amounts to mocking Buddhism in an unreasonable manner.
But before you apologise, I would like you to answer these questions first:
1)What has Buddhism got to do with those “low class’ people whom you mentioned?
2)Do you have any evidence that they are Buddhists?
3)Do you know what a Buddhist is?
Please answer rationally and coherently.
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Thomas Cai
That “conspiracy” link was just a supposition, a projection of possibility. The real focus was the INTENT and MOTIVE of the person who brought the tape to TR for dissemination to the public. That was the main point which you have failed to see. If that person was genuinely serving the interest of maintaining racial and religious peace and harmony, why not report it to the police with his video tape as evidence? Why take a channel for public consumption which would undoubtedly fan the flames of hatred? In case you still cannot get the thrust of matter , the message is : THERE IS AN UNDERLYING AGENDA which must be investigated.
The “conspiracy” thing was thrown in more as something which, though a merely casual remark more out of jest than anything, could possibly turn out very real. More so, if say, for hypothetical purpose, investigations reveal that the person is actually a member of the PAP cadre, etc. Then it would take on a whole new meaning wouldn’t it?
Unfortunately you read too fast and missed the undertone. Also, you are just too uptight and serious in everything. Loosen up a bit. As my name suggests, you should expect that some of the things and comments posted are done with a little tongue in cheek.
If you cannot fathom greater issues and inferences don’t go round jumping the gun and start accusing others for being too imaginative or for being Roswell and Martian believers.
Anyway, you’re not fired. I would like to say that famous line “you’re fired!” to you, but since you are so uptight, if I did, you might report to the police that I want to shoot you with some gun or something…….
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I went to his church last year for good friday only to hear him spend a whole hour making fun of buddhist and taoism via the help of two mediacorp artist ( the “aiyoyo” teacher n her husband)
Can anyone verify this statement? Can anyone tell me if this couple is indeed a member of this pastor’s congregation?
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He is not doing something good. I bet, Christianity is a good religion, is the people that is not good enough to carry it. what a pity.
@Truth
you do not understand the different between buddhism and confusion, buddhism and tao, or buddhism with chinese tradition. please go and study.
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@Truth,
First, how do you know they r Buddhists?
Second, what’s wrong with Ah bengs and Ah Lians being Buddhists?
Third, Buddhism is a religion for all from rich to poor, man to woman, educated to uneducated, young to old. Becos Buddhism DOES NOT discriminate any forms of life.
Rodney Sim Hang Nge , an elder at the Lighthouse Evangelism church paid for SEX with underage girl. So this is how CHRIST had impact on him ??
READ NEWS ON LIGHTHOUSE EVANGELISM CHURCH ELDER PAID FOR SEX WITH TEEN
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+News/Singapore/Story/STIStory_406420.html
Is this the social value preached by Rony Tan and his Church then?
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Apologise
You also got it wrong. Please read my comments carefully again.
I never said that he should be blamed. I suggested that he should be investigated for bringing the video to TR for public consumption when the right thing to do was to hand it to the police to substantiate his complaint. It was not about blaming him or blaming Pastor Rony Tan. It was about an investigation to determine what his motive or intent was, because his actions certainly gives the impression of an element of an a hidden agenda. Could he not have reported it to the police directly? If he thought the material was seditious or dangerous talk detrimental to religious harmony why bring it to TR which is not the authority to address such a matter? He should not the proper channel to use. If you are sick you go see a doctor and if want to sue someone you go see a lawyer. In this instance, he SHOULD have gone to the police.
Why bring it up at a public forum? To induce Buddhists and Christians to wage a war in cyberspace? The nature of his action, by my interpretation, is seditious because it is provoking a response from the people who will perceived that their religion is being attacked. Racial riots in the 60’s were sparked by such thoughtless comments of Pastor Rony Tan an also by thoughtless actions of the complainant.
Pastor Rony Tan’s act is provocative, that is for sure. The action of that person who posted the video is also provocative as well. Two evils cannot cancel each other out to become a good. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
If I was that person, I would have taken a recording of the video and made a police report to substantiate my compliant (if I was really troubled by the pastor’s action). But in reality I wouldn’t have made such a big fuss over it. Because religion is something that is very personal, what is meat to someone is poison to others, and you can argue over it from morning to night and it still wouldn’t change a thing. Because it is just a belief system. There is no right and no wrong. It just depends on what you want to believe. Incidents such as this that happened at this church are being repeated many times over at other places, at the office, at the coffee shop, at the bar, etc. day in and out. How can we say control what people want to speak when they are in a debate? If they fall out of line, and their words becomes inflammatory as to jeopardise the preservation of public order, then I would say there is something to hold them accountable for. If it is not, then it’s just idle talk happening at the coffeeshop every day. It may be politics today and religion tomorrow.
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He was not called up (to drink kopi).
He was called up OVER THE PHONE ! Not even a face-to-face meeting.
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I would like to ask Mr Rony Tan..
If he asked the ex-monk with regards to the understanding of that one word chant which the ex-monk said he does not know the meaning and Mr Rony Tan laughed at chanting without knowing the meaning of that one powerful word chant,
Then can he tell me if there is any meanings to the tongue language that X-tians used?
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To all Buddhist, please do forgive Pastor Rony Tan since he had apologised and to all Christians do please pray for his soul for he had sin.
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Yes, We can accept his apology, but!
We cannot forgive him, why?
Because only GOD forgives.
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This pastor is getting a slap on the hand for this reason.
Correct me if I sound too paranoid. If this incident is made even bigger by prosecuting him, it would just shatter the image of “perfect, civilised” Singapore if compared to its neighbours.
The coverage of the Allah issue in Malaysia, the apparent “lawlessness” in the Phillippines and the rigid “conservative views” in Indonesia were strong.
Now Singapore to have its own problem? I doubt the authorities want this. Shows you how much of a joke the people in charge of this country is.
You know, if a Muslim, Buddhist or Catholic religious authority were to say something like this, I can bet that dude would be condemned and hauled to jail as fast as the rise of our costs of living in this country.
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if he can get away with apologizing, those three youths who were charged should also be able to get away with ’sorry’. let us set an example for other religious leaders to follow – think before you act.
it is not uncommon in law to have someone given a strict sentence to serve as a precedence for future cases to follow. since he’s the first religious leader that has been guilty of offending other religions, certainly he must face a strict penalty? we can always forgive him after that.
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Mediacorp artiste Aiyoyo and her husband are the members of this church? No wonder Aiyoyo can always be squeezed into the billboard chart. Just need half of this church membership to get her onto the chart. Full members vote even better. Next year Aiyoyo will be the most popular artisan in Singapore again.
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It is very sad to see human fighting/arguing over religion.
Your is not right. Mine is the best. Your is demon. Mine is real truth. What is the real truth? Are we “smart”/”knowledgeable ” enough to understand the whole nature and universe.
Why there is so much conflict in this world over religion is because of human. There is nothing wrong with Jesus or buddha or any other religion who teaches good values and how to be a better person.
The case on this is NOTHING NEW. Since I’m young, i was told buddhism worship idol. But in my heart, what about Jesus statue that can be see in churches? So.. we use symbol/picture to remind us on the teachings of those great ones. Be it india gurus, Jesus , any enlightened beings in this world.. it is to remember what they have taught or something that they have said that touches our life. it is for remembrance , for reflection. Not just by praying, it will improve our life.
But human twists around.. putting their limited knowledge on things they never put effort in understanding and just “FOLLOW what people say”.
Look around in the western countries where more and more westerners get in touch with Buddhism where they are brought up as Christian since young. Why there is an increase ? There should be something good about Buddhism thus it attracts them.
Same goes to Chinese who are brought up in Taoisms or buddhism are converted to Christians. Any thing wrong about it?
There is nothing wrong because they find something out there which meet their needs.
To me, different people have different needs. Some like chanting where they find it peaceful even though they don;t understand. Just like we are listening to music who is sang by African tribes and we don;t understand but there are people who likes it. So can we call them “Demons” too?
Use your wisdom. Step one step back and reflect.
During the journey of being a buddhist before converting to Christians.. is there anything that you have learn that helps you in your life? If there is, think about it first before you start to comment on your past as a buddhism. Give Gratitudes. If there isn’t, is it because you merely follow instead of understanding the teachings throughly?
Talking about “Rebirth”.. there are real proven cases where one can recollect their past. So how to explain those?
Are they demons also or not Human?
Holy water after prayer – science has proved that the crystal form after prayer is so beautiful as compare before any prayer.
Be it it is water worship from temple/churches , it is the same.
So don;t put our limited knowledge to claim that yours is the best, the rest are demons.
Read the old text of bible, do some real research on Buddhism.
Look at what they have in common, definately the terms are different but there are many simiarilities. And don’t be surprise to find that in olden bible… “Reincaration” was mentioned. It was only in new testament that this chapter was removed. So who remove this? HUMAN LOH.
So let’s respect all religion and we should live in harmony.
Be open minded. I think if Jesus is still around.. he must be shaking his head.. THIS IS NOT WHAT I PREACH
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The so called “man of God”?
I urge all his members not to comment anymore and not to ask God(Chirstian’s belief)to forgive or help him.
More actions should be done to cool this issue down.
We elected our goverment. They should be capable.
You choose him as your Pastor. He should be punished!
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It’s a fact that Christianity are blasted by many online and offline.
Even Da Vinci Code is seditious.
How come there’s no questioning on these?
Double standard? Your views please.
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@justkaypoh
Da Vinci Code is a work of fiction. A fantasy.
You’re making a comparison between your Bible and your God to a fantasy.
Think about it.
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Rebacca on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 6:43 pm
Great post by Rebacca.
Some Biblical references to reincarnation can be found in the book, “Mansions Of the Soul” By H. Spencer Lewis:-
http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMansions-Soul-Dr-Spencer-Lewis%2Fdp%2F0912057076%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1265715565%26sr%3D1-1&tag=singamallcom-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325
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In my family, my mom and brothers are Christians. For years, we live happily as a family even though dad and I are Buddhist. My brothers have tried to encourage me to accept God Jesus but I never did because I heard Christians bashing other regions and this time from a well known pastor talking bad things of other region it confirmed that I made the right decision. All religions are good regardless whoever their God is. But saying bad things of other region is not God’s teaching. I went to catholic school during my secondary school days and attended church with my brothers, I appreciate theirs believe in God. In addition, I have many Muslim friends, I respect their religion. I saw the clips of this Pastor Tan. His acts and words are unacceptable. Firstly, he is leading the people on stage to agree with him and secondly he added on their thoughts with oil and fire. It is poisoning of others minds. Who is the demon now? Buddha teaches us to forgive and Jesus, too, taught us to forgive our enemy. We all need to live harmony in one society regardless of race and religions. Without that common understanding and appreciation of others religions, Singapore would not be where we are today. Last but not least, does anyone really know where are we going after death? I would rather share love and care towards others around me in this life.
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bc,
“Da Vinci Code is a work of fiction. A fantasy.
Can you tell the difference ?”
Oh, man. So if I write a seditious fiction/fantasy book about Buddhism and Islam then is ok?
Oh, can you explain the logic? Why don’t you write a seditious fiction about LKY then?
And you conveniently ignored my point on offline and online seditious remarks. Which mean you agree its double standard?
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You know….he never for once mentioned in his apology note that he will swear by God that he will not do it again….
How sincere is he??
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Today’s headlines on newspapers – ISD called Rony. And Rony apologised. He feared ISD more than he feared God. Had not the ISD called, would he apologise? Or is it a Miracle? Has he just seen the Light? Or is he doing the Healing now and Redeeming the mischiefs he put two ex-Buddhists through?
Hmm … the Mega-Man has Delivered. Go and see his EGO at http://www.ronytan.com
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To those ex nun and monk who gave the testimonies.
I feel very shameful when one testify by giving how bad the previous religion is -
Ask yourself.. have you done your best in understanding what is the teaching about?
Recently, my nephew was converted to Christian. I gave him all the blessings and just told him one thing -” thoughout the years, you have been blessed by the gods that we pray.. so now you find another path that you think it suits you.(He is converted because her girlfriend and whole family are christians).
So i wish that you are different from other christians. Respect all religions. Give gratitude to those monks which has given you the blessing.”
I can say.. even though he claims to be a buddhist, but he is not a real buddhist because he did not really study buddhism and go through proper understanding in buddhism. There are many of those out there, claim to be buddhist but they are not real buddhist. They just go to temple.. pray…that it.
If you really spend time , going to the right place, right teachers, you will know how great is Buddha’s teaching.
I felt it is very shameful saying something bad about your previous religion during testimonials because it is just like you attend a school, the teachers taught you whatever he knows, but you don;t understand whereas others understand. So you left the school without a proper understanding and when you attended another school, you start to talk how bad is the previous school. Those who stays might already made progresses which you may not have witness. So… before commenting.. please reflect deep from your heart.
What you have done so far and the reason why you dont understand. Did you spend time questioning your doubts and are your doubts answer or you just give up and let it be . What is your objectives of being a monk and nun? There must be a solid reason why you want to be a monk or nun? I dont believe you dont understand what is the purpose of going through ordaination. If you don;t understand.. there truely.. there is something wrong in you. Be responsible for your speech.
Sometime,I don’t understand why ones get very excited and happy when one is converted to Christian or say something bad about other religion. Just to prove yours is the best or to reinforce your beliefs? I believe we all need some kind of stuff to increase our believes. This is done by practising from our heart , follow the practice of those enlightened ones but not attacking others by not truely understand what is all about and saying something by merely following what others say.
So let’s do our part. Learn to accept and accomodate all differences, and that is how we can continue to build a harmonious society.
The pastor is not just one of them. I believe there are many out there doing the same thing except no video was posted.
Since young, i have came across christians preaching and talking about buddhism and taoism. Laughing at goddness of mercy with thousand hands. They don;t understand the true meaning behind this symbol, saying that it is demon. Anything done differently from their beliefs are all demon. So look at
those good buddhism organisation that does so much good deed in helping people all over the world. So they are worshippers of demon?
This is a good lesson to be learnt. Be open minded and respect others.
Some great quotes from Buddha -
a) Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace.
b) Let us rise up and be thankful, for if we didn’t learn a lot today, at least we learned a little, and if we didn’t learn a little, at least we didn’t get sick, and if we got sick, at least we didn’t die; so, let us all be thankful.
c) The tongue like a sharp knife… Kills without drawing blood
d) An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind
e) Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense
f) Whatever words we utter should be chosen with care for people will hear them and be influenced by them for good or ill
g) A Religion To Practise
This is religion for one to come and practice but not just to come and believe
Parallel Sayings of Buddha and Christ – http://www.heartlandsangha.org/parallel-sayings.html
Buddha: One who acts on truth is happy, in this world and beyond.
Jesus: You will know the truth and the truth will make you free.
Buddha:Hatred do not ever cease in this world by hating, but by love; this is an eternal truth… Overcome anger by love, Overcome evil by good. overcome the miser by giving, overcome the liar by truth.
Jesus: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. From anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again.
Look at the website where western buddhism and christianity comes together, understanding each other in their belief and they have found similiaries between them.
Read the article – Buddhist and Christians—walk the path in unity. http://www.heartlandsangha.org/unity.html
This talk given in a church service at Evanston, IL.
I trust there are many things to learn from each other.
Who knows.. in the end.. when we start to realise that each different paths meet somewhere and it leads to the same destination..
May there be peace on earth.
May all be free from physical and mental sufferings.
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There were times Christians are also victimised and shunned off in a very disrespectful manner, privately and publicly. However, I haven’t come across similar defense by the Christian community but instead continue to win souls through biblical cultivation and nurturing, forgiving their “persecutors”. Therefore, are Christians “not” standing up for our rights? Or are we letting time and eventualities take place to show itself? i.e. truth?
In any case, the testimonials are from ex-monk and ex-nun who felt the need to “share” their experience/opinions, testifying their salvation. Sensitive as it might be, but that is their life and rights. It was not any public propaganda, but a closed door service for fellow Christians.
Then, perhaps visitors who had “posted” this online with the intent of damaging harmony should be the ones who might need to reflect their unharmonious actions.
And on many countless occasions, in similar situations, Christian hadn’t gotten any apologies.
And for your info, it is not a Christian value “to swear” (although many of us still have much flaws to overcome and repent). And it is because Pastor fears God, so Pastor fear the loss of His sheeps, and that is why he is apologizing.
~Robin
(This is my personal belief and opinions.)
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My suggestion, to everyone out there who has doubts about Christianity and would like to know more about what is really spoken and taught (instead of relying on these short snippets to conclude), dare visit us and experience yourself during these times:
Every Sat: 7pm
Every Sun: 9am, 11.15am, 3.15pm, 7.00pm
~God Loves Everyone, including His persecutors~
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@justkaypoh
I don’t find fairy tales, fiction or fantasy seditious. I’m not offended by Santa Clause, Tooth Fairies or Garden Gnomes. Because I know that they are imaginary and not real. You are most welcome to write any fictitious book you want.
You, on the other hand, are comparing what Pastor Rony said on the pulpit to Da Vinci Code, a work of fiction.
For the rest of your comments, I recommend reading http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ . It will help you form your arguments logically, instead of using taunts and fallacies.
“Why don’t you A”. Nice taunt. Nice try.
“Since you A, means you B”. You first have to show how A -> B.
Ignoring you hardly means agreement.
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the public is manipulated by him who uses it as a free and powerful publicity for his church and getting more followers….
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I wonder why all reports and interview are all focus on the Head of Buddhist Federation but not on the respond and interview from the Head of Taoist Federation .Does that show the SG government really have a religious chart ranking system which place the most important religion at the top of the list?No wonder this Rony Tan can get easily off the hook without punishment ,while others will definately send to jail for such remarks .
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1. The God Delusion
2. Letter to A Christian Nation
3. God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
4. EvoluRobin on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 12:26 am
I would recommend you to read:
tion: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters
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Robin on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 12:26 am
I recommend you to read:
1. The God Delusion
2. Letter to A Christian Nation
3. God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
4. Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters
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@agnostic
I agree with your list, but we can start simpler. Just start with critical thinking skills, identifying fallacies, etc.
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Imagine..if the pastor is charged, fined or jailed, what do yo think the impact to his believers/followers ?
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Let’s stop all this endless argument. Well, since Pastor Rony already apologised,let’s move on. So if you have any doubt can always visit him in his church to clear your dispute with him or can jolly well strike outside the church which i think is unlikely,hahaa, Roaring like a paper lion here cant bring you to anywhere.
Anyway, you can also sit back and believe what is dear to you but when Christ’s second coming, all of you will know the truth.
Time will prove everything.
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>>Truth on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:50 pm
>>Apologise to save your skin?
Hey, if your so call buddha teaching is so good, there shouldn’t be so many ah lian and ah beng stood around e temple smoking merry making etc…not to mention that those who q for the toto or 4D…kinda of make me sick! LOW CLASS!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
@ Truth:
Before we continue, let me tell you that you need grammar and spelling classes, PRONTO. Instead of posting insults, I reckon you might want to invest some time and effort taking English lessons. “if your so call buddha…” LOL. Yes, that just made me laugh so hard.
I fully agree with Harry Tomdick’s reply, and I dare you to repeat your very seditious comment with your real name.
Until you’ve properly answered those questions posed by Harry Tomdick, please do not taint this column with your shallow understanding of Buddhism and incoherent remarks.
PS: You might want to try punctuating.
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@Truth
Wow, you’re one deluded man. Way to claim truth over FAITH.
And way to hate the “ah-lians” and all, “love thy neighbor”?
“judge not lest you be judged”?
you are a true man of god, whom you claimed to be existent; by the way.
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@ Truth:
The argument began when you posted nonsense on Buddhism. Simply because you’re unable to answer the questions posed by Harry Tomdick, you want to stop this ‘endless argument’? How convenient.
Time will prove everything, indeed. When you go to Heaven, please do me a favour and send me a postcard.
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Truth on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 9:33 pm
So if you have any doubt can always visit him in his church to clear your dispute with him or can jolly well strike outside the church which i think is unlikely,hahaa, Roaring like a paper lion here cant bring you to anywhere.
- – -
@truth
please clarify the meaning of ‘can jolly well strike outside the church’. are you insinuating that the majority of the public, christians and non-christians alike, who have expressed outrage at rony tan’s insensitive behaviour, will resort to violence? it is misguided christians like you that give the rest of us a bad name.
in particular, your remarks in a previous post about ah lians/ah bengs and being low class, were truly uncalled for. how are those points relevant to the current topic? people are unhappy that rony tan showed disrespect – nothing about the christian faith has been debated, because this isn’t about religion itself, it’s about basic courtesy and sensitivity.
what is your definition of ‘low class’? are you very ‘high class’? i daresay the people who OWN the companies which manufacture cigarettes (i don’t smoke, and neither do i like it, but if others want to, it’s up to them), are much more ‘high class’ than you are. please tell us your yardstick for being ‘high class’.
for your reference, i strongly suggest you read Matt 7:2-5.
signing off, i hope you will come to understand this verse below:
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgement. – John 7:24
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>disenchanted on Fri, 12th Feb 2010 3:18 pm
Alright…i admit those remarks were made out of agony as almost all of the commend were negative against Pastor Rony Tan unreasonably …i know it clearly that no matter what/how i explain, people around will not listen and trying hard to stir up by adding fire & oil.
Well, as for definition of “High Class”…im actually not up to it as well but at least im not as hypocrite who kept telling of Buddha teaching while they themselve know NUTS of it who simply type “Buddha” in Wikipedia and copy & paste loft of infomations and proclaim it proudly:
So, now what? will my explaining be forgiven by the morons here, will they ever come to their senses? All they want(mindlessly)is just PROSECUTE!!!
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@disenchanted
at least i can still see hope in christianity .please guide the blind ones like Truth.
@Truth
u really made me laughed.how old are you?do u even know what u are typing?i bet u are from rony’s church.
’so now what?’… now u need english lessons.
if there is really a second coming, i will gladly choose hell if u are going up.
‘blind leading the blind’, so said rony.
i really wonder who is the blind one
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Whatever Pastor Rony teaches all have scriptural basis from the Bible. He would not have apologized if the reputation of his church is not put at stake. He believe in the Bible, and he preaches in what he believe in, so he did nothing wrong.
So what if he offended other religions. If he turn out to be right, he would be saving many people’s lives. If he turns out to be wrong, so be it.
Look at the countless of people has been healed at the church, there is definitely something miraculous taking place there. Why don’t people appreciate that in the first place? I have seen tons of testimonies from the church members who have been miraculously touched by God. However way I see it, they seem genuine with real medical records to back up what they claimed. So please, cool off and start doing some real research on what actually happened.
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What is The Truth?
Truth does not require belief or faith. Truth cannot be disputed nor even need to be raised, discussed or questioned. If I tell you I saw a kangaroo hoping about in Chinatown, would you believe me? Won’t you also question me? Won’t you say I am clowning?
These are the conditions one might believe:
1) You saw it too with your own eyes.
2) The organiser of Chingay Parade has brought in kangaroos from Australia.
3) I am the miraculous, charismatic pastor.
4) You were punched by the kangaroo and nearly died but was healed by a LE pastor.
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The Sun radiates heat. Does anyone need to believe this? Or enter into lengthy, endless debates? Or question? Or blog about it? That is called Truth.
Someone says God created the Sun. That is conjecture. Because it is conjecture, endless debates both lunatic and scientific ones are carried out.
Humans are psychologically a complex animal only because he has a mind. And the mind works in ways that are still not understood. Would I not be speaking the Truth if I say some people are mindless and some are mindful?
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This is a classic example of why religious entities should not have power to enforce their beliefs.
In the spring of 1633, Galileo Galilei, was delivered before the dreaded Roman Inquisition to be tried on charges of heresy. He was denounced, according to a formal statement, “for holding as true the false doctrine . . . that the sun is the center of the world, and immovable, and that the earth moves!” The statement went on to read that “the proposition that the sun is the center of the world and does not move from its place is absurd and… heretical, because it is expressly contrary to the Holy Scripture!” Galileo was found guilty and forced to renounce his views. Ill and broken in spirit, he was sentenced to a life of perpetual imprisonment and penance.
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@Espirit on Sun, 14th Feb 2010 1:38 am
My Dear Esprit,
This is in response to your post. On your advise, I have done a bit of ‘research’ , but have come across this on Youtube.
I don’t know if it is appropriate for me to post this video link, but since you are so sure that your pastor can do such miracles, I only want you to understand that many others, like this Peter Popoff have done the same miraculous healings to many people. Of course I am not saying pastor Rony is a fraud, but I think the video will enlighten you that others can also perform the miracles just as effectively. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXOEAz46vMk&feature=related
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■Rebacca on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 12:11 am
////Recently, my nephew was converted to Christian…. (He is converted because her girlfriend and whole family are christians).///
Too many people succumb to this flawed thinking. Especially those without a strong understanding of their belief system. So they jump ship at life’s crossroad, oftentimes with drastic consequences. Divorce is one of such consequences.
“Women marry men hoping they will change. Men marry women hoping they will not. So each is inevitably disappointed.”
Albert Einstein
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Harry TomDick on Mon, 15th Feb 2010 2:48 pm
Singapore also got. But in MLM format. Same same but different.
http://www.diamondwaterweb.com/?gclid=CMDHt7ny858CFQVB6wodVUpXXQ
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he deserves a few rotans on his butt. such an apology is useless.
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Oldwater plant in Bedok is bottling Miracle Spring Water. Major customers are hospitals whose cancer-stricken patients will be served the miracle water. When healed they can expect to receive cheques of varying amounts from Jesus of Nazareth.
12,000 gullible and naïve Singaporeans – engineers, CEOs, professors, civil servants, politicians, car salesman, executives, executioners, accountants, mini-bond bankers, brokers, gamblers, and you-name-all are flocking to Tampines and Woodlands for the drink which is available for free.
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aah-haa on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 1:10 pm
not only must one quench with miracele water, one needs to miracle smell of MLM aromatheraphy products by BelAire that cure all that the miracle water does not.
The iRony is that they are producing the smells from petroleum byproducts, so it’s closer to glue sniffing than healthcare.
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Since we are talking about the busniess of brianwashing, (this is sidetracking), but readers please beware of these scams that promises you big bucks (mainly your big bucks becoming theirs)
http://www.globalassociate.net/forum/
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aah haa
That was outright disrespect for Christianity and making such sarcastic remarks is not going to earn you any merit points. Why debase a religion when it is only the messenger who errs ?
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@We Want The Truth on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 11:44 pm
“That was outright disrespect for Christianity and making such sarcastic remarks is not going to earn you any merit points. Why debase a religion when it is only the messenger who errs?”
Would you be specific as to which sarcastic remarks? Was it the Sun, Miracle Water, kangaroo in Chinatown or about The Truth? Also, I wasn’t interested in earning any merit points in order to gain entry to some make-believe place or promised land. I subscribe to the law of cause and effect and am responsible for my action, speech and thought. “Debase” is a strong and wrong word to use. I have not demonised Christianity or Christians nor have I said another religion is superior.
While I have been ‘critical’ of the errant ‘messenger’, I have never call for his punishment. As for the religion, was the messenger simply a postman or a believer not associated with it?
I Want The Truth.
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The truth is …. you are a mean Christian basher waiting for an opportunity to do so and the transgression of Rony Tan gave you the perfect opportunity to do so.
I am not a Christian but a Buddhist. And please, do not post any more reply to me or relating to the matter any more. I think you have said more than enough.
Thank you.
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We Want The Truth on Thu, 18th Feb 2010 4:57 pm
“The truth is …. you are a mean Christian basher waiting for an opportunity to do so and the transgression of Rony Tan gave you the perfect opportunity to do so.
I am not a Christian but a Buddhist. And please, do not post any more reply to me or relating to the matter any more. I think you have said more than enough”
Hahaha, The Truth doesn’t Want any more reply from me. This is very TELLING.
I don’t know Rony from Adam and if I were really (truly) to bash the Christians, they will never get to see the Light! I had said Rony’s stage antics were despicable and under-handed. I didn’t say Christians are despicable or under-handed. As you ‘deviously’ alleged that ‘I was waiting for the opportunity to do so’, Buddhist would call this ‘conditioned arising’. Kamma-vipaka bears fruits after all these years of video-recording of Rony’s sermons ridiculing other religions that he now ‘instructed’ his church to get rid off.
You are NOT a Buddhist. Don’t try to do a Rony here.
I Want The Truth.
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All I can say is, it’s difficult being a leader or a head of an orginisation, a corporate body or even a church in this case.
Believe me, being a Senior Pastor in this case is never easy. You not only have to be very careful in the way you preach but at the same time you have to ensure that your words are in alignment with the Bible. And being human as we are, we all do make misakes at one point or another.
Would anyone out there dare to say that he or she does not make a mistake? So let us be a gracious society and accept the fact that Pastor Rony has made a mistake and that he has offered his apologies. Let us learn to be more forgiving and let the matter rest. Putting ourselves in his shoes, I am sure we would feel just as terrible and would appreciate if the public could accept our apologies and forgive us, won’t that be the case?
I am saying this simply because I am a parent and so many times as I tried my level best to treat my children right, I do hurt them in one way or another or vice versa. So we need to apologise and seek each other’s forgiveness. Can you imagine how terrible I would feel if my children were to reject my apologies; it’s painful!
Last but not least, be it Buddhist, Toaist or Christianity, I am sure they all have one thing in common, and that is, to practise love and forgiveness, isn’t it? That’s why both the leaders from the Buddhist and Toaist community accepted Pastor Rony’s apologies and forgave him.
Of course, at the end of it, you can beg to differ but on a personal level, that is how I feel about the whole issue.
Hearty
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