PAP Model : Starting Ahead and Finishing Last
February 22nd, 2010 | 
Author: By Hurr Riyahi
One of the characteristics of PAP Model is its tendency to start ahead but finish last. This can be seen in the outcomes of most PAP policies. What is funny about this is that about two thirds of Singaporeans (about 66%) only choose to see how PAP model starts ahead. Instead they fear to see how it finishes last. They are also deluded by the initial gains which they naively think will last indefinitely and/or repeat continually. That explains how PAP is able to make the voters believe that its model works and that there is no alternative model superior than its own.
EDUCATION
If you ask Singaporeans about their education system, majority will boast about how the students start ahead of other students in other countries. The ability to do English comprehension, essays and grammar in primary one is something which many point out to show that in many western education systems, the primary one kids are incompetent in such areas. However the same Singaporeans fail to realize that when those primary one kids reach the age of university graduation, say 21-24 years, the average western kid is far more competent than our average Singaporean kid in English which though starts ahead, finishes last.
In the area of mathematics and science, Singaporeans kids start ahead of kids in developed countries in primary school by being far more competent in solving the most difficult questions. Most Singaporean families look at this as a major life achievement and superiority of the PAP educational system. However it is the kids in developed world who lag behind Singaporean kids in primary school in mathematics and science who later achieve big leaps in those two topics and using that be responsible for vast majority of the accomplishments in medicine, health sciences, engineering, information technology, natural sciences, economics, finance etc.
On the other hand, close to three quarter of the Singaporean kids who slog and perform the most tedious questions in mathematics and science in primary school do not even attain university education. Those who do attain university education have hardly achieved anything much on the global scale in the sciences.
ECONOMY
When PAP transformed Singapore from a developing to an industrialised economy, it took only twenty years whereas Europe took two hundred years. Singapore was far ahead of the pace of industrialisation. However till today Singapore has not been accepted into OECD and therefore it remains an industrialised country and not a developed country.
Europe took less than twenty years to become developed countries after becoming industrialised. PAP is taking more than thirty years and still it has not been able to get Singapore into OECD as a developed country. Instead it points to IMF or World Bank classifications, which are not benchmarks, and make political statements about Singapore being a developed country.
Even amongst the developed countries, Singapore ranks the lowest amongst all of them in so many important areas. However PAP will only pick out fanciful and superficial areas like competitiveness, openness etc and try to show how its ahead of developed economies. Where Singapore needs to demonstrate is in its sustainability. Even recently the PAP leadership has come out to say its high growth strategy wont be sustainable in post crisis and Singaporeans must accept a lower growth path.
HOUSING
PAP was ahead of many countries in resolving housing problems and achieving home ownership rates. Yet today it has one of the worst housing crisis amongst countries in developed countries.
In developed countries where housing prices are high, the people still have viable options of affordable renting. Singapore does not have such options. In terms of affordability Singapore started ahead of others in being able to provide houses which the citizens could deem as affordable. Today only the politicians and foreigners can deem the housing prices as affordable. The average Singapore citizen struggles to buy a simple house.
Though in most developed countries, the government do not provide housing solutions, they create opportunities for people to find accomodation in an affordable and sustainable way either through buying or renting.
TRANSPORT
Being a small island, it was relatively easy to set up a bus, train and road network that is far ahead of any city. PAP achieved it. However today the transport network in Singapore is one of the most congested, expensive and unpleasant all thanks to its ultra-liberal immigration policy. In many cities of developed countries, the bus and train fares are expensive but people have the option of cheaper car travel.
In a land scare Singapore, it is only prudent to make car travel expensive and public transport very cheap. However the public transport companies run by private companies that are wholly owned by government seek perpetual increase in their profits and have driven up public transport costs beyond imagination. Singapore bus drivers also had a good reputation for safety and pleasantness. Today they have been replaced with foreigner drivers who are unable to communicate and who drive buses like trucks and bullock carts. The transportation system in Singapore that started ahead of others will soon be finishing last in ranking within a decade’s time.
SINGAPORE WILL FINISH LAST
In every other area of Singapore one will find the same trend in the outcomes of PAP’s policies. The sad reality is that Singapore will finish last in every area within five years time and it will be far too late for Singaporeans to rectify the situation then. About 30% of Singaporeans are being PAP faithfully. Another 40% are not sure but they are afraid of change and they are also not intellectual enough to imagine beyond PAP. Hence they rather dream along the rhetoric put out to them. In fact some of this 40% want change without PAP not voted out of power. However PAP has set up a highly interlinked system where it cannot touch one single area without upsetting other areas. Hence it will only make cosmetic changes.
What is required is a major overhaul of the whole system. That reality alarms the 40% also who have no intellectual ability or confidence to see how it can be achieved. The 30% who wants to see change remain too few to see any real reforms becoming possible even though they may be loud. Singapore started ahead to Singaporeans and PAP. But it will also finish last due to Singaporeans and PAP.
Posted in 
insightful
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and our STUPID gahmen have not learned from the story about the TORTOISE & HARE
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Actually, we the citizens should not be upset about all the foreigners taking away our jobs. After all, we serve NS, and survival is something taught in NS. Instead, we should think outside the box. Can’t afford to buy rice? Then don’t eat rice; eat fresh meat instead. After all, there are plenty of foreigners and elites around, and human flesh is said to taste like pork.
Soylent green, anyone?
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How utterly true! This article is an apt description of what ails the PAP. You only need to look at the psyche of LKY to understand why it has turned out this way.
a. LKY is a great actor. He can cry at will and understands the importance of theatrics in politics. He bullies, threatens and uses powerful imagery (the knuckle duster in the cul de sac) to intimidate his audience. He paints beautiful pictures of the future of Singapore to capture the imagination of Singaporeans. But this is achievable only if the PAP is in power.
b. LKY has a great understanding of human nature. He knows that people are generally conservative and plays on that fear- fear of change and fear of the unknown. In fact his recent statements have all come down to the complete downfall of Singapore if the PAP is not in power.
c. LKY is a great reader of literature. He reads all the latest books on economics, politics, eugenics, management and philosophy. The problem is that he picks up a few thoughts here and there and treats them as the gospel truth. This explains the line of argument in this article that projects start well but end badly. The failure of these projects is in organizational failure. It is the failure to see the long term implications of such policies, the failure to continuously review and accept criticism. The greatest failure is where the underlings blindly implement these projects without any thought or concern for the long term implications. This is what happens when you choose supporters based on loyalty rather than competence, on greed for money rather than commitment to the nation and on blood relations rather than capability.
However, while LKY’s strength is in being totally focussed and single minded it is also his greatest weakness. To him the absence of conflict is the elimination of opposition, not the presence of a process to resolve such conflict. You are for him or against him. There is no middle ground. He may concede the middle ground temporarily but will eventually use all his powers at his disposal to buy you over, crush you or even blackmail you.
We can tolerate such behavior when the world was less interconnected, people less aware and economies less interdependent. However, it is a sure and quick way to damnation for Singapore to be dependent on the whims and fancies of an aged and demented demagogue way past his expiry date. Does anybody believe that any one in the ruling elite could face up to LKY if he falls into a dementia ridden state? He has to be removed from authority before he totally destroys Singapore. What an utter waste. He could have retired in glory and be remembered as the great architect of Singapore. Instead, our memory of him is that of a bully, a fraud and selfish old man. What a damn pity…..
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Interesting article. Maybe the writer can post another one on the projects which we started last but will lose money first. Eg Crazy Horse, F1, Singapore Flyer, casinos…
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The Singapore Model is in fact gradually facing a tough uphill path with all the tens of Billions SGD the government lost over the last couple of years through messed up investments in equity in troubled banking institutions and US real estate. They started to face budget deficit since 2009 continuing into 2010 and beyond and would increase their VAT (called GSP there) up to 10% by 2012 after the next General Elections (schedule for either 2010 or 2011 latest). Singapore’s destiny has been so far dictated by men, but soon, with global warming and food security hitting, her destiny would be dictated by God. Imagine with climate change altering crops worldwide, Singapore without any natural resources and no hinterland (unlike Hong Kong with huge Mainland China in the backyard) would face acute difficulties to bid for food against China and other countries. Perhaps their only chance of surviving politically would be a “re-merger” with Malaysia to serve as hinterland since Sabah/Sarawak have still plenty of arable land to use. But such possibility may occur only with a new generations of Singapore leaders as the Old Man clinging to power and doing nothing but forecasting (with an insane annual pay check) is still around… Singapore has certainly achieved the Swiss standard of Cost but definitely not the Swiss standard of Living.
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Precisely!
PM Lee loves talking birds!
He thought that problems can be solved by delivering ‘world-class’ speeches. That’s why he has a team of talking birds.
Mr Mah and his incompetent HDB management must be very busy now. I wonder how many meetings they have scheduled each day, in order to resolve the housing crisis – which is created by incompetent PAP leaders.
Ha ha ha!
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more or less quite an accurate assessment
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I kinda agree. Sry, but a true sad state we hve got ourselves into. What a Mess….sry to say, I am no longer proud of this RD…in the past,YES, now? Feels like this is no longer my home,everthing seems so chatic,unfamilar and foreign to me.
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Well said!
We have the most brilliant system for beginners. But we don’t have world beating genius whom are usually developed & discovered later in life [usually not by conventional means].
As our system have low tolerance for failures/dropouts.
We fail to nurture risk taking entrepreneurs like we did during Singapore founding years.
So for the past few decades – how many of today’s businessmen are from within the past few years rather than those from those era where risk taking is rampant?
Our perfect system cannot survive outside this improbable lab.
Ever wonder why our education system changes so rapidly?
Our country is a testbed for “their fantasy”…
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Well-written and analyzed! wonder what the gahmen has got to say to the arguments put forth in this piece.
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Change, change, change, more change and even more change. One word only, change. Ok, loud and clear. Change.
And? So?
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I must say this one of the best article ever written in TR.
How true,we usually began first and end up last.
I know better because I have relations with their kids half around the globe.I had observed my overseas relatives children usually have a poorer beginning compared to ours in Singapore.But somehow most ended up with excellent career opportunities in US & Europe.Whereas my local next-of-kins and their children ends up losing to the third-rate FT career wise in our very own tuft…Obviously it’s NOT in the genes as PAP would want us to believe.
Strikingly the scenarios are very similar with our uncles and aunties too.I had also observed my uncles and aunties overseas are now retired spending their time with the routines of morning excercise and leisurely congenitial times with their grandchildren.
Whereas our local uncles and aunties work 12 hours-shifts as security guards plus another 3 hours of to and from work Saturdays & Sundays inclusive.Leaving them no time to take care of themselves medically;let alone enjoy a home cooked meal.Mind you they worked at executives level in their primes.
What the fark had gone with our nation?
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Good and truthful article. If we continue to believe this incompetent PAP govt, we will all end up being owners of a mountain of debts that each of us will carry to our graves.
Time for change is now. The PAP govt is simply incompetent. This govt can only lead us towards self destruction.
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Most of SIngapore ‘Intelligent’ students are only book smart but not street smart – as they learn through ‘root learning but not experiencial learning. It is when you have experiential learning that your mind – interlectuality and mentally develop and take its shape.
I believe that education is not all about books, it is about trial and error. You learn from mistake. In some school you are not allowed to make mistake or fail. Once you fail in your exam,you are asked to drop-off the subject eg ‘A-maths’, because some teachers are afraid that they will not promoted because of you. When you insist on taking the subject, you are given cold shoulder by the teacher So where is the dedication of these teachers, who suppose to teach and guide this student. Are they lacking in competency. I personally feel that the satisfaction of any teacher is when she/he is able to provide the road for this child to be able to achieve their goal to pass the exam and move forward as a successful student, but not to deter their development by asking them to drop-off the subject. This has been a common practise in some school in Singapore.
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功利社会弊病
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I only have 3 things to say:-
1. In Singapore, you (or your family) die your business.
2. NS for Singaporeans, jobs & scholarships for PRs and foreigners.
3. Vote for change — Vote Opposition.
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Very, very good article whose points I agree with almost completely.
The PAP of today likes to trumpet is accomplishments (‘best, first, or biggest *insert* in the world’) to the world like no tomorrow, but I doubt anybody on the streets really cares anymore because its mostly just for bragging rights to the government to justify their own self-worth, completely unrelated to the ‘lesser mortals’ and their livelihoods.
Underneath the ivory towers is a foundation that is slowly but surely crumbling over time.
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Good article. Missed the point where the govt. loves to control and nanny us. This has a detrimental affect where, we have a generation of people who can’t think for themselves, and have become less competitive as they tend to turn to the govt. for help if they are in trouble.
As long as the govt. wants to control our lives and curtail our freedom, we will be hard-pressed to nurture real talent who can make a difference to the world.
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“We can tolerate such behavior when the world was less interconnected, people less aware and economies less interdependent. ”
I thought this level of discourse was to be found in TOC instead. You cannot blame Singaporeans the way they form their conclusions after 40 years of PAP brainwashing and for not rocking the boat when times are good. Now when times are bad, and the leadership have made calamitous errors, in this Internet era the truth can easily be uncovered behind the PR spin.
As to why there is a hardcore PAP section of the population, the reason is best not mentioned. Their numbers are augmented by the disgruntled ex-Malaysians becoming citizens. Funny thing is that they have no love for China.
I really hope that the Opposition can come up with solutions for the problems that Singapore is facing. To quote an American political talkshow host (no matter what you think about his politics) “It’s not enough to not suck as much as the other side”.
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This article is utter rubbish.
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Someone has the cheek to even try to “teach” the Singapore model to developing countries!!
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FOLKS,
VOTE FOR CHANGE ! VOTE FOR NEW GOVT TO RISE UP IN OUR MIDST NOW! WHAT SINGAPOREANS ALL NEED IS A NEW GOVT TO OVERTHROWN THIS OLD GOVT. NOT ONE SHOULD BE LEFT AND SPARED FOR THIS CURRENT OLD ONE!!
GET RID OF ALL OF THEM .
KINDLY GO AND SUPPORT KENNETH LIN 15 YR OLD ARTICLE PETITION AND VOLUNTARILY SIGN UP!! MANY MANY PPL HAVE ALD DONE SO, INCLUDING SOME EURASIANS AND MALAYS..
C’MON SINGAPOREANS, WE CAN DO BETTER THAN THESE WHO ARE NOT NATIVE SINGAPOREANS, IF THEY CAN SUPPORT, WHY NOT US??
PLS SUPPORT AND SIGN YA. LET KENNETH LIN AND OTHERS TO HELP KICK START AND PUSH THIS AGENDA AND OVERTHROW ALL THESE PAPPIES OUT!
VOTE FOR CHANGE! YES WE CAN!!
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Yes we will finish last and get stuck in the last position for a long time if we do not make the change now!
Not only should we vote PAP, we should be coming together to make better policies to benefit Singaporeans as well as bring Singapore back to the first place.
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Not true. If you care to look around, there are many rich Singaporeans.
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The garman start listening only near election time . what a pity. Their FT policies have destroyed many singaporeans ( 80 % ) and nothing can be done to remedy it . now only way out is to vote the papayas out in the next election . use our voting power since papayas treat us like 3rd class citizens
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The author of this article obviously has not been around much.
->the average western kid is far more competent than our average Singaporean kid in English which though starts ahead, finishes last.
have you ever been to america or the uk? go see how people there can’t even spell their own names. take a trip to birmingham or scotland and see what kind of “english” they speak. i guarantee you, you will go “huh wtf”.
singaporeans speak 2 langauges or more, they speak only 1 language. if you take singaporeans who speak english as their L1, like florance lian, dick lee etc, you will see they speak/write better english than the average “westerner” AND they can understand 1-2 more langauges as well
->In developed countries where housing prices are high, the people still have viable options of affordable renting
you must be crazy. go look at house prices near london. they all costs million dollars sgd or more. the problem is all the jobs in the uk are in london, hence you need to live near london to find a job. but the problem is , houses are so expensive.
my british friend who makes good money will never be able to afford a house in this lifetime.
in america, just look at the number of homeless people on the streets.
go look at hong kong, their houses are unbelievably expensive, even more so than europe and their rental flats are so small it feels like a coffin.
go thank your lucky stars you have affordable housing in singapore. go to the uk and live or australia and live, then come back to singapore. you will see how good singapore is compared to these countries. some of us have actually been there done that. there are flaws in singapore yes, but overall it is still a nice place to live in.
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EXCELLENT PIECE OF INSIGHTFUL THOUGHTS. WE ARE OBEDIENT FOLLOWERS – NOT THINKER NOR CREATORS WHICH IS PRECISELY WHAT THE PAP FEARS THE MOST.
BUT THE PRICE – AN INSIDIOUS DECLINE AND DISINTEGRATION OF OUR SOCIETY. THAT PROCESS HAS ALREADY GERMINATED.
NO SOLUTION VIABLE – JUST BRING IN AN OVERLOAD OF MIGRANT TO ADD TO CONSUMPTION AND GDP – INFLATING EVER ESCALATING POLITICIANS’ SALARY while our society continues to rot.
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here is a true story of my friend who works in london. he pays almost 50% tax, yes 50% of his salary goes to the tax man. he works in a university in london as a project manager. he wants to buy a house in london but it is too expensive, it will take him 30 plus years of saving just to afford the downpayment.
so like many other ppl, he rents.
the only houses he can afford are 2 hours outside london. but that means he has to spend 4 hours travelling to and fro from work each day, which is what a lot of people do. he can also move to other parts of the UK, say cardiff or glasglow, but there are very few jobs there as most of the jobs are concentrated in London.
can you see the dilemma here? and in the uk, school kids , they call them chavs, make trouble all over the places. on the bus, on the streets everywhere. there is quite a lot of crime. when i was there studying, my house was broken into twice. my window was broken once. the weather is cold as hell. they have democracy yes, but their parliament, called the house of commons is split into two groups and they act like childish brats in parliament. it is like in america, they have democracy yes, but the bills never get passed due to partisan politics. look at obama’s health reform bill, it has been jammed so many times due to partisan politics. the politicians dont care about the people, they just care about power struggles and fighting for political gains for their own parties.
good points about the UK? yes there are a lot as well. i like the socialist labour govt who looks after the people well, a lot of emphasis on rights and human rights, some areas can be very pleasant to live in, there is a lot of history, people are caring and kind etc etc..
pros and cons. but it is not all gold in the traditional developed countries like uk or usa. life in singapore is definitely comparable with the life in the UK. different pros and cons. singapore can and should improve, it is a young country. but dont beat singapore down all the time, it is an amazing place and i am proud to be born in singapore.
despite all your criticism of the education system, if you go to the UK, you will know that us Singaporeans often graduate top of their universities. it is the same in america or australia. singaporeans also often top international debates ranking.
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great article. should share with more people.
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the whole idea is to make alot lot of money for them and to get more and more citizens into debts so you people will be too weak to oppose anything they do unto you!
wake up my dear singaporeans, you people been sleeping far to many years, its time to open your eyes now and see NOT JUST HEAR what’s been nicely put to you.
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Allow me to point out one mistake in this article – the fact that Singapore has not been accepted into OECD.
In this aspect, I actually agree with Lee Senior’s decision, that joining the OECD will result in Singapore having to shoulder the responsibilities as a developed nation. That includes giving aid to other countries as well as loans that are more or less expected to be defaulted on. Now now, if we are in the OECD, we will see uproar on TR about how our $$$ are being channelled to foreign countries instead of our own citizens (a common argument in OECD countries). Given the fact that our govt is already so pro-foreigner, why do you want the OECD status and give them the excuse to be more pro-foreigner?
As for the education system, it is true that Singapore do not produce the brightest talents in any field (lack of Nobel prizes is just an indication). However, on the whole, we are educated to be efficient workers, not to be tip-top scholars in the respective field. Why? It’s the simple law of numbers. The 0.0001% of USA, India or China is way more than the top 1% of Singapore. Anyone studying statistics will understand that the larger the sample size, the greater the number of outliers. The truly outstanding ones are the outliers which Singapore has precious few because of our numbers. We are more or less concentrated around the median compared to other countries (aka standard deviation is lesser). It’s comparing apple to oranges.
Just my two cents worth. You made some valid points but you must stand corrected on some invalid ones you made.
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vege on Mon, 22nd Feb 2010 10:22 am
Saturday, February 20, 2010
Nevada Casinos Lose $6.7 Billion in 2009
by CalculatedRisk on 2/20/2010 06:48:00 PM
Something a little different …
From Cy Ryan at the Las Vegas Sun: Report: Casinos lost money for second time in history
The state Gaming Control Board today released its “Gaming Abstract” for fiscal year 2009, which ended June 30, showing a net loss of $6.7 billion among the 260 major casinos in Nevada.
Clubs along the Las Vegas Strip, which makes up 53 percent of the gambling revenue in Nevada, registered a $4.1 billion loss.
…
The only other time Nevada gaming companies reported a loss was in 2003, of $33.5 million, said Frank Streshley, chief of tax and licensing for the board.
Total revenues were down from $25.0 billion in fiscal 2008 to $22.0 billion in fiscal 2009. Gambling was off 12.7%, room revenue off 16.6% (hotels are getting crushed everywhere), but beverage sales were flat!
Rooms occupied (number of nights) declined from 42.8 million in 2008 (occupancy rate of 86.8%) to 41.6 million in 2009 or 82.2% occupancy rate. The average daily rate (ADR) declined from $119.46 in 2008 to $102.46 in 2009.
In addition to the $3 billion decrease in revenue, the casinos saw a $4.8 billion increase in Other G&A expenses – probably from write downs of bad investments. Also casino payroll employment was off 12.3% or almost 25,000 employees.
The two pillars of the Las Vegas economy have been gaming and construction. Construction is dead – and will be for some time because of all the excess capacity. And gaming is struggling too.
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embarrassingly poor article. im surprised TR standard is stooping so low. this guy is using layman terms and street level arguments to discuss complex issues. if this was published in a reputable newspaper it would be laughed at. obviously this chap has no proper qualification to discuss these topics. look at the slipshod style of baseless argument without any proper data to back up the claims. the article is pleasant to read if you are anti-pap but has no credibility whatsoever. most of the claims everyone sort of knows already so whats the point of this low level exercise that has no real tangible source or citation. shame TR. this is one reader lost.
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“despite all your criticism of the education system, if you go to the UK, you will know that us Singaporeans often graduate top of their universities. it is the same in america or australia. singaporeans also often top international debates ranking.”
Yes how is that working out? Any world-class CEOs, entrepreneurs, scientists with groundbreaking discoveries?
Please back up all claims with empirical evidence; I am pretty sure Singaporeans being top (I assume First Class Honours and not Dean’s List) of the university is NOT a statistical anomaly, which means the number of top graduates who comprise of other nationalities with an equal rate of success.
“the politicians dont care about the people, they just care about power struggles and fighting for political gains for their own parties.”
As if this doesnt happen in non-democracies. Even if in a one party system like Singapore, everyone is still jockeying for position, albeit not transparently.
Decrying the high tax rate and then goes on to praise the “good points about the UK? yes there are a lot as well. i like the socialist labour govt who looks after the people well …” Does this poster who is sympathetic to the PAP want 50% tax? Dont worry GST is going to increase soon, should make him happy.
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Is it because that our system doesn’t allow failures, only choosing the “elites” and weeding out failures. As they say “if it doesn’t kill you, it only can make you stronger.”
Many of the successful entrepreneurs in the world who will have failed in his life in one way or another. If the PAP model are the ones that weed these people out, how can we expect that we can produce innovators and entrepreneurs of tomorrow?
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@ Incredulous on Mon, 22nd Feb 2010 1:44 pm
“As long as the govt. wants to control our lives and curtail our freedom, we will be hard-pressed to nurture real talent who can make a difference to the world.”
OH, I AGREE WITH THAT – ABSOLUTELY!!
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respoding to clement tan:
->Yes how is that working out? Any world-class CEOs, entrepreneurs, scientists with groundbreaking discoveries?
yes plenty. from third world slum, singapore became first world with gdp per capita same as the UK and overtaking Japan.
busiest port, freeiest economy, best place in world to do business, best airport, all govt unis are top 100 in world, many entrepreuneurs overseas, many skilled professionals in business, sciences and less so in arts. you can go google singapore ceo, scientists or entrepreneurs yourself.
-> As if this doesnt happen in non-democracies. Even if in a one party system like Singapore, everyone is still jockeying for position, albeit not transparently.
no you dont understand politics at all or how bills are passed. in singapore’s system, they might be fighting for power but when it comes for time to vote, all PAP MPs HAVE to vote according to what the leader of the party says. so the bills will always get passed if the leader of the party feels that it should be passed. if MPs do not vote as instructed by their leader, they can be expelled from the party. the party whip ensures everyone vote according to the party’s stand.
however, there are some bills where the party whip is lifted and the MPs can vote whatever way they want, normally bills on abortion laws etc.
in countries such as the USA, if neither party has a majority in government, they will require another party’s support to form a majority to pass any bill. this is called a coalition government, minority government, etc.
so one party keeps blocking all bills just to screw the other party over. this is what is happening in the US. the republicans are blocking all bills in the senate as they want to screw the democrats over.
ALL TALK AND NO ACTION basically.
and singaporeans do do well in overseas universities. you have to go abroad and see for yourself. asians normally excel in universities abroad; but singaporeans more so because they dont have the english
barrier.
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It’s lucky the opposition are wiser and better calibre than to mix around here..
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A good article. Well analysed and presented.
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I am not the biggest fan of the PAP government but I would like to point out that this article is extremely badly written. It is basically based on unsubstantiated claims like “Though in most developed countries, the government do not provide housing solutions, they create opportunities for people to find accomodation in an affordable and sustainable way either through buying or renting.” Perhaps the author should vist the USA and check out the foreclosure situation there.
“Even amongst the developed countries, Singapore ranks the lowest amongst all of them in so many important areas.” – Can we have more specifics?
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Sad! But it is the truth!
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by the way clement tan,
if the singapore model is to start ahead and finish last, you and me would not be typing on this internet forum in english in the comfort of our air conditioned house.
we would be planting rice on the field and sleeping in wooden houses like many countries.
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“go thank your lucky stars you have affordable housing in singapore. go to the uk and live or australia and live, then come back to singapore. you will see how good singapore is compared to these countries. some of us have actually been there done that. there are flaws in singapore yes, but overall it is still a nice place to live in.”
The above quote and together with the rest of the comments are not wrong however neither are they the gospel truth.
When you said western kids do not know how to spell their names, how many are we talking, majority or a significant number? I can tell you many Singaporean cannot make good their first language that is English, that’s why Singlish proliferates and broken English dominates. But I am sure there are as many here as there are in Britain in proportion children who do well in schools and struggles with the spoken and written words.
unfortunately schools in Singapore do not encourage creative thinking, perhaps this is the objective of the powers to be, and learn by way of rote. It is well known here in Australian universities that Asian students do not question much, they are usually the smartest in class without any queries during question time and you wonder they must be shy? No, they either don’t what to let you know they don’t know or they are afraid to ask a stupid question.
Back to the quote above, and the author claimed he’s been there done that. Went where, did what and found that places like Australia is worst off than Singapore? you obviously just visited there for a holiday or just stayed for overseas education and not actually worked or lived here, yeah? I mean, employed full time and bought a house not renting, yes? If you did, and if you were in Australia, mate you really missed it. All I can say is you probably stayed overseas but lived like a Singaporean. Come on, when in Rome do what the Romans do.
(I give an example – I tend to find many Singaporeans who go overseas for travel expect to find an equivalent of an Orchard road to shop, if not they start complaining shopping is lousy…what the………….)
I can give you one fine example that Melbourne is probably as good as Singapore if not better for family-orientated lifestyle. Take work. virtually 9-5 and most employer expect you do not work in ungodly times because they know, they have a family too. Singapore? the same cannot be said, you should well know!
When my kid was born and for 3 years now, I see him everyday after work and my time with him is a daily affair: brush teeth, eat breakfast, say goodbye i am off to work, come home, eat dinner together, read and play with him, brush teeth, read a bedtime story or a song, everyday. And my wife does the rest with him and other stuff in the house. omigod, my fiend whose kid was born here, he came only to see her birth for a week (it is ceasarian so he knew, not forecasting) and then went back to Singapore to work! when the wife and daughter went over to Singapore to stay with him, his time spent with his daughter is only limited to a few hours of the weekends. why? because of his work. He does not interact with his kid like I do, what is the problem?
i think australia is very family-orientated in this aspect, the same cannot be said of Singapore. Do you know how great it is to have so much time for your kids?
yes, you can have both good and bad, but here in Melbourne is mostly good because i value family life immensely.
So Australia is definite not as bad as some would want you to believe.
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this a really bad article. what were you thinking TR? i agree with the poster a. this kind of rationale and arguing is below street level. it’ll be embarrassing for anyone to have a discussion over this terrible terrible article. very very backwards and lacking in substance.
all the hard and good work done so far by TR gets flushed away with stupid articles like this. and this same fellow wrote another meaningless ramble last week that offended a lot of ppl. sigh. better days for TR hopefully. fingers crossed.
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The standard of this article is ridiculous. The only substantive ‘proof’ given to back any of the outlandish claims come in the form of the author’s poor grammar and spelling which prove that Singaporeans’ don’t have an excellent command of English. Look around the world. Get out of your well. Check out how other countries are being managed. Open your eyes. Come back and write again when you actually have a clue..
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Quitter,
Don’t sian people la. All industry also like that slow meh? Aiya, slow industry sure also slow prospects. Sounds like you like it, right? No wonder your name quitter.
Whey, anywhere also got slow industries lah. Compare apple to apple. Their Sydney finance is slow meh? Sian who? Not all are five (or fifteen year old kids here.
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Quitter,
Don’t sian people la. All industry also like that slow meh? Aiya, slow industry sure also slow prospects. Sounds like you like it, right? No wonder your name quitter.
Whey, anywhere also got slow industries lah. Compare apple to apple. Their Sydney finance is slow meh? Sian who? Not all are five (or fifteen) year old kids here.
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My family are Australian citizens (emi over in the early 90s). I lived there for a few months but did not work. While you may like it there, I don’t. I am a city dweller kind of guy. Which was why I didn’t return to Australia after going overseas to backpack and teach English for almost a decade. My family still live there and they are happy so it is all good. I am a singaporean and i think i would like to die in singapore, this is home.
What’s bad about Australia (at least where my family live)? everything closes early, internet is rediculously expensive but slow, so is food, there are poisonous shit everywhere – snakes, spiders, even the kangeroo is not as cute as you originally think those assholes can claw you, the air conditioner takes 3 weeks just to get fixed, things are generally not as advanced as in singapore, crime, drugs, esp drugs, you have to drive you cant take the train or bus, the accent can be quite bad as well.
whats good? nice minimum wage, relaxed lifestyle, higher wages, bigger houses etc.
pros and cons.
even in singapore you can have weekends off etc, it is all up to you. people say singaporeans work long hours, well you can always choose a profession that works few hours or configure your life accordingly. your life is in your hands.
if you look at gdp per capita etc is aus better than sg? yes. i won’t deny you make more money in aus. but sg does fit me better and i feel it is a better place to bring up kids -> bilingual edu, no crime, no drugs, there is the chinese and malay culture i miss so much here, the food etc .
aus would be a better place to work and retire. it all depends on each individual really. singapore is my home. i have worked as an english teacher and lived for significant amount of time in hong kong, china, japan, peru, UK and australia(only for a few months) and still singapore is best.
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singapore
I am baffled by your comments that your friend in UK is paying 50 % in personal taxes. In what year was that? It is rather amazing to me, because from what I know through my own experience the maximum rate has been 40 %. For the accessible year 2008/09 the 40 % rate was applied on taxable income in excess of 34,800 GBP, and in excess of 37,400 GBP for 2009/10. It is only in the current accounting year 2010/11 that the additional 10 %, making a total of 50 % be applied, and this only for taxable income exceeding 150,000 GBP. So I do not see how your friend could have paid 50 % tax on his personal income when that maximum rate is only applicable from this year onwards. Very baffling indeed.
Also your depiction of the British Parliament is incorrect. Theirs is a two chamber parliament consisting of the upper chamber (House of Lords) and lower chamber (House of Commons). The upper house, House of Lords, has veto rights over the lower house, the House of Commons, which has 646 democratically elected MPs. It has never been split into two groups as mentioned by you. Members of the House of Lords totalling 740 are either Lords Spiritual (sitting senior bishops from Church of England and limited to 26 members) or Lords Temporal. The latter Lords in turn consist of Life Peers (their titles are not passed on to their children) and Elected Hereditary Peers (limited to 92). Revision and reforms to the Lords’ set up is an on-going process.
That will clarify the truth of the matter in very clear perspective, and not some disjointed jargon containing numerous untruths about the UK system.
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Same with CPF. It started with retirements savings and now they are all gone to pay expensive pigeon hole or loss in Temasek and GIC. As for retriements, we were told about swiss standard of living and golden period awaits our later years, but there is not enough money for retirements and LKY blamed Singaporeans for not able to work beyond 85yo.. Than the stop-at-two policy was flawed, now they resort to import foreigners to cover such flaws. HDB lift upgrading was also another flawed planning in early years when lift were not build to stop at every level, today they are used as political tools and threat to vote for PAP. GST which was meant to help the poor is now creating surplus to help the ministers in their excessive pay rise.
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Sadly, I agree with the criticisms of this article. While it’s a fun opinion piece, articles of this caliber will never be taken seriously in a real policy discussion. To beef this up, you need to substantiate your claims with verifiable facts and data, analyze the larger historical/economic/social trends that may be at work, and (ideally) propose some alternative solutions.
I’m waiting for my chance to vote the MIW out of power too. But weak polemic articles such as this don’t help our cause, sadly.
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@Truth Seeker
I cant remember clearly but it is around 50%, I think it is 40% or 35% I am not too sure. probably 40% like what you said.
one thing to note is this, my friend pays very high taxes but can’t claim benefits from the govt because he has worked overseas in the past few years. once you leave the UK for some time, you cannot claim any benefits such as unemployment benefits etc.
The house of lords does not normally reject any bills from the house of commons. only on rare occassions do they reject bills. you can say it is almost like a rubber stamp 99% of the time. the queen also always assent all bills, she never rejects any bills even though she technically has the power to. it is due to respect for the principle of democracy. only the hse of commons is elected by the people. the hse of lords and the queen are not, so they normally approve any bill from the house of commons which is the “voice of the people”.
technically, by law, the queen can overide parliaments and refuse to assent any bills from australia, cananda, jamaica, new zealand, paupa new guinea and all the coutries where she is head of state. but it never happens because of obvious reasons. if she did that, she will probably be overthrown.
in fact, the house of commons was set up just to check the power of the soverign. the soverign in the uk used to have unlimited powers until the british people fought and force the soverign to sign the “magna carta”. that gave birth to the westminister parliamentary system in the UK later on. the british parliament is the mother of many parliaments around the world.
singapore uses the same parliamentary system as the UK. only that it is unicameral, ie no house of lords to block bills.
i was talking about the hse of commons not lords. the hse of commons has two main groups – labour and conservative. it has been that way for the past hundred years. there are a lot of childish acts in the hse of commons. and people do lose faith in the system because their antics can be quite rediculous at times.
hope that helps.
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dudes, he didn’t say 50%. READ CAREFULLY IDIOTS. “he pays almost 50% tax” ALMOST– do you know what it means? imbeciles..
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Since the PAP ministers also devised their brillant ideas to earn more money in double quick time, seeking for promotion, more salary and more luxuries, the people also follow suit. See how much the engineers are paid as compared to those in finance and business sector. Engineers create technology but earn penny pay whereas those who talk a lot and never really work, earned bigger pay check. Technology is the pillars of the country, but the government lack the foresight and fall in the dismal investment of UBS, Citi etc. So much of our CPF money has gone down the drain to save the foreign banks. Why not our own government gave more money during the chinese new year la? Only $10 ang bao for the poor only!!
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Good article! I would like to add some further comments:-
Education – Spore’s primary & secondary education is excellent due to the rigid discipline and basic focus on academic fundamentals. However, this narrow academic focus retards the Singaporean students’ ability to think laterally and ‘out-of-the-box’ from tertiary level onwards. In Spore, there is a systematic failure with higher education – there is a problem regarding thought processes and reasoning ability – it is as if the brain stopped growing after secondary school! My children studied in Spore up to secondary school [they had mediocre grades as they hated homework] but went to Australia for their high school Year 11 & 12 – they outperformed most of their Aussie counterparts and topped the 90%-95% percentile for their university entrance exams and went on to graduate from a top 8 Australian university. My point is that after secondary school, the Singaporean student begins a rapid descent once the basic academic fundamentals are learnt – the basic logical reasoning and ability to understand is completely lost which would be evident in a tertiary educated student but unfortunately in Spore, it is not the case!
Economy – With education as the ’cause’ – the ‘effect’ is the economy. Manufacturing is no longer the economic driver as it was in the 80s and 90s. Our economic pillars; Manufacturing, Banking and finance, Hub transport services [Air freight, sea cargo and warehousing] have all shrunk since the 1998 financial crisis, SARS outbreak and so on. Since the 00s, the internet has been a source of growth globally. The Spore mindset is unable to compete in a global economy due to narrow educational focus, media and thought censorship and nanny state micro-management. Spore is still focused on the ‘Bricks & mortar’ business model while the developed world have gone on the cyberspace and the web.
With Spore ministers paid million dollar salaries, it is not surprising that public housing, govt land tenders together with transportation being squeezed to generate sufficient revenue to pay them. Every move by the govt is a simple revenue generating act – ERP rates, COE quotas, Taxi quotas, HDB pricing and Govt land tenders. The man in the street is not even considered in the revenue equation. Privatization of essential services – HDB services, utilities, healthcare and so on serves to maximize revenue for the govt and shift the risk and problems to the private sector provider. Even the Spore police these day do not attend to all police reports – they can tell you to file a civil law suit instead of ‘wasting’ their time. The net result is that the Spore govt is becoming more like a Corporation and less like a govt. Profit motivation is paramount and some Spore ministers are their Corporate PR Spin-masters – they are there to create ‘reality distortion’ – to generate popular support for govt policies which ultimately ’screws’ the public as important for the country. The best example is the so-called, ‘Foreign Talent’ immigration policy. They tell you that this policy is necessary for the country but they failed to tell you that your wages will go down, Ravi Baboo or Xu Long will steal your job or you have to work longer hours for less with no overtime instead! Also, the ‘Corporation’ will be able to generate higher profits to pay to their executives [the million-$ ministers] by reducing wage costs.
The PAP policy is not about Spore finishing last as the PAP policy makers would finished 1st [in terms of pay], it is those [Singaporeans] who voted for them would finish last! That is the sad story for those who continued to vote for PAP!
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Great article.
Actually I think what the author has pointed out is evidence of the progress achieved by our first generation (real) leaders vs the current bunch of elitist-scholar-millionsters.
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Singapore
I am very well acquainted with the UK parliamentary system and how it works. I spent 10 years there. I was actually spelling out a “misconception” in your earlier posting, and did not provide further explanation of how their system works because this is not an appropriate channel to do so (the subject not having much relevance to our readers here). Their parliamentary system, being carried down since feudal days (from which the House of Lords were embodied) is being refined over the years and is still an ever on-going process. The upper chamber serves as a veto channel much like our elected president concept (a parliamentary procedure which exists in principle but hardly used).
Anyway, the tax rate had always been at maximum of 40 % and only this year, has recently been revised to 50 % payable in April 2011. Comparatively speaking, the maximum rate in the US is 35 %. I am not so sure about the maximum rates of other European countries in the EU, but I can surmise that they would be within the same range if they are on state welfarism.
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BIG EYE
He said “almost 50 %, yes 50 % of his salary goes to the tax man”
a) Can you read properly the sentence in full ?
b) Can you tell the difference between ‘almost 50 %’ and ‘40 % ‘(are they the same?).
Do not butt in when adults are talking. Go play with your marbles.
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@ BIG EYE
Do you have a Big Eye or is it actually a Black Eye which is causing you difficulty in reading the text properly.
“Singapore” mentioned “almost 50%” but he followed on to say that “yes, 50% of his salary goes to the tax man”.
So who is the imbecile one? I think you just hit yourself with a black eye this time. Open your eyes and read fully and carefully next time before you start drawing your gun with your indiscriminate shooting.
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The consequences of a centrally planned economy.
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Hi Big Eye
In ‘Singapore’s post @ 22 Feb 4.38 p.m. he said “….yes 50% of his salary goes to the tax man.” Can you read properly or not? He started the sentence on an unsure note of “almost 50%” but immediately put in an affirmative word of “yes 50%”.
YES-do you know what it means? imbecile…..
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@BIG EYE
Dude, he didn’t just say almost 50%. READ CAREFULLY IDIOT. “yes 50% of his salary goes to the tax man.”
YES 50% – do you know what it means? imbecile..
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#Quitter on Mon, 22nd Feb 2010 10:00 pm
Well said, mate! Melbourne is definitely better than Singapore. Cheers!
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Actually, I think they are running out of ideas. Others are playing catch up.
The situation is like this : a young man was carrying the country’s burden on his back and he was able to run fast. But now he is very old (age 86) and he cannot run as fast. Meanwhile, his competitors are running faster than him carrying the weight of their country’s burden with them. They are able to catch him very soon because they are generally younger than him. Conclusion ? We must change our runner. The Baton must be passed.
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this is an awful article. this site shouldnt be publishing articles of this low standard. its hard to take Temasek seriously as an alternative news site with articles that are this poorly researched and unsubstantiated. the writer should have probably kept it in his own diary. its this kind of low brow discourse that makes PAP and its supporters seem superior. pls no more articles from this hurr fellow. dont bite more than you can chew is all i can tell the writer.
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this is a lousy article. one of the worst ever. yes, views can be different from the usual government view. but intelligent ones please.
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Though I agree on some point of the article like education, but there are points that need to be researched and backed by real statistics or proof. The crux of the article here is the point that the author is trying to make it that though the government are first to initiate policies, but the last to update and improve them, and end up being followers instead of leading. This article is not whether which country is better to live in but how we can change the mentality of our government which in turn change the mentality of its people. Everyone in Singapore can speak English but can anyone say we can command the language, I doubt the majority of us can like the Europeans. I work in a MNC company, and I noticed the Singaporeans get run over every time we have a discussion. We become too passive and wait for a suggestion to agree on rather than coming out with one. So to speak not going against the flow. How can we be world beaters with this attitude.
The reason we fall behind is that department is the lack of skill and confidence to speak out. Though we are starting to do that in schools here, if you look at international schools, the students can hold their own debating about various subjects and the teachers are just moderating but not leading the debate. So how can we compete in the global stage when we can’t even put our point across the table.
Another thing about education is that we are always thought how to get to a solution, rather than finding other ways to the solution. It’s the journey of discovering that makes us wiser, not the getting there in the fastest possible way. We never ask question like why, what if, in fear of being reprimanded by our superiors.
I watched the Chinese programme ‘Life Transformations’ orsomething like that yesterday, it’s admirable that they are helping the lest fortunate, but the host never stop to ask why has it come to such a situation. Why is MCYS giving only $400 when they know it’s not enough, why no one from the RC have come to help? Questions that obviously need to be asked by the right people. I was surprised the the old lady in the programme is staying in Tanjong Pagar. It’s obvious that nobody there is brave enough to ask those questions, it’s LKY stronghold. Like I said, we might be the first to build the tallest public residential flats but the last to help those living below the ivory towers.
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@Anonymous
Quitter,
Don’t sian people la. All industry also like that slow meh? Aiya, slow industry sure also slow prospects. Sounds like you like it, right? No wonder your name quitter.
Whey, anywhere also got slow industries lah. Compare apple to apple. Their Sydney finance is slow meh? Sian who? Not all are five (or fifteen year old kids here.
You really need to write properly as uncle don’t what you are mumbling about. And English, please…….
Btw, i will choose Quitter over Anonymous.
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Truth Seeker
were you working or studying? 10 years should be enough to get ILR if you want to.
the uk is hardly the best country in europe. the best countries are the ones in the “continent” such as in denmark, sweden, netherlands, norway etc. they all pay very very high taxes, i think up to 70% for the richest people. just incredibly high taxes but everything is taken care of by the state. education, healthcare is all free. you can study phds, masters degrees all for free. when you are unemployed, you get money to pay rent and buy food from the state, you will never starve.
the standard of living is very high and even i must admit that singapore really cannot compare with these countries. but of course, they have their problems as well. the main downside is you pay extremely high tax and watch as lowlifes refuse to work and sponge off the state, living off monies of hard working tax payer like yourself.
and all the young people in western europe (except france) speak english these days. many of them speak better than singaporeans. unless singaporeans buck up, singapore will lose its english speaking advantage soon
europe has very strong emphasis on human rights. now you know why the romanian embassy guy would rather serve his prison sentence in romania than in singapore. i think even in a second-third world country like romania, their prisons are much more humane than in singapore.
you know singapore cannot compare with these european countries when their prisons are better than our NTUC chatlets.
check out this danish prison video i was watching on bbc the other day. surprisingly their reoffending rate is almost the same as singapore’s, in fact, lower than singapore’s reoffending rate from 1950-2000! ->
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_5310000/newsid_5314600/nb_rm_5314678.stm
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@Singapore
even in singapore you can have weekends off etc, it is all up to you. people say singaporeans work long hours, well you can always choose a profession that works few hours or configure your life accordingly. your life is in your hands.
Yes you can. Let me rephrase it,
even in Australia you can work in the weekends if you choose, if you think you have too much family life you’re too stressed out…..
The difference is, in most cases, you will be stressing working in Singapore. there are not many in your situation that can take things easy – cc, mortgage, children etc…..
Didn’t in Singapore some employers implemented 5 days working week or alternate saturdays? You wouldn’t need to do that if weekends are not spent working aaway, would you?
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Was there on overseas job posting.
Agree with you some European countries are better places to live in over UK. But I guess it’s all a matter of choice. The welfarism states such as the Scandinavian countries you mentioned may have more social benefits but their culture differs from those further south, as well as from the British way of life.
If you are thinking civility, maybe Central Europe is the place to be. Further west (Spain and Portugal) it’s a bit too hot, and politically fragile (especially Spain), while further east, it’s their economy is still playing catch-up with the west. For the enterprising Singaporean businessmen and entreprenuers, eastern European states offer them tremendous potential. A friend of mine had gone in there since 1991 in a food related distribution business, and is now doing big business in the region (his company has gone public and listed on SGX).
Regards.
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Nicely put together Hurr Riyahi !
May I just say something about nation building. Spore started ahead in the initial yrs, but after 50 yrs, I absolutely concur with our old Despot that we are not a nation.
Sadly it has all to do with him and his PAP.
Do a survey with NS Men/Reservists and find out how many feel they are defending a nation or defending the PAP elites, the wealthy and their stooges ?………20% vs 80% ?
How many have faith the PAP elites and their stooges will stay in a crunch ?………10% ?
In this aspect, I can predict Spore will finish last….if Sporeans continue to give PAP the mandate.
ps: remember the old despot chose to serve the enemies.
so in a nutshell, can we trust those who serve him ?
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My goodness, i cannot help but come to the conclusion that you are wrong, deliberately or otherwise, on every facet of your four fold argument. I am not a PAP nitch, nor am i of the opinion that a one-party state is necessarily healthy for a democracy. Nonetheless, i am willing to concede that the ruling party has done remarkably well, ESPECIALLY in the aforementioned areas. Singapore went from being a desperate third world nation, and that is a big word, nation, because we were never supposed to be one, nor were we recognised by anyone as a country, not even by our own politicians, to one of the richest countries per capita in the world. I am not pontificating for us to be eternally grateful to the PAP, but the least we can do is to step back and recognise our achievements and compare with some of the countries in the OECD- which by the way i feel is yet another organisation dominated by western leaders and thought (like the IMF & World Bank)- that you mentioned in your argument. I am a university student, and have been in groups with exchange students from great universities from the west and i can tell you there is no discrenible difference between our thought and intellectual capacities. as for your case, well, i think you are way, way , off the mark.
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Stop Cronyism
Stop Elitism
Stop Govt. involvment in Business.the business of Govt. is govt. and not Business.
Stop govt. getting involved in all aspects of citizens life.
Stop telling the citizens what they can do or cannot do
Be a real Govt. and not be a Bully
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@Quitter
Singapore is a small island with no natural resources in a very shitty region in the world. It is not Australia or Europe.
If you bear that in mind, all the long working hours, conscription etc start to make sense. I mean, how else can Singapore prosper and survive?
Singapore has done the best it can given its situation. If the government was truly that bad, Singaporeans would not be sitting in an air conditioned room surfing in the Internet. They would be planting rice crops in the field just like our ASEAN neighbours.
You say Australia is paradise. But I say every country has its pros and cons; banes and boons. If I were to step back and compare Singapore and Australia very objectively, I would say Australia offers a better standard of living.
If I were to compare Singapore with Hong Kong or any other Asian countries (except Japan), I would say that Singapore is better than them. People talk about Singapore vs HK all the time but to me there is no comparison. Singapore is much better than HK.
When I taught English in China, many kids have this idea that the UK/US is utopia. Some of them think that “westerners” are rich, smart and charming. They think life is easy there. A pipe dream. When I walk down Nanjing Road with my caucasian friend, the mainlanders come up to speak to him and some even take pictures of him like he was a movie star.
Many Singaporeans also have the same thinking as them.
Anyway, it is the same all over the world. You work, you pay your mortgages and you make a living. You think the grass is greener on the other side? You make the move and find out for yourself. Sometimes it is, sometimes it is not.
In Australia, there are problems as well. The Internet sucks (You can only download a few GB a month). There is shortage of water in some states. Just like every country, there are plenty of ignorant idiots. Drugs abound. Depending on where you live, it can be very boring or expensive.
If you want to go to Australia it is very easy. The Chinese and Indians are bringing their entire family over. Once someone in the family gets PR, they can sponsor their relatives for PR and in turn, their relatives can sponsor their relatives over as well. It goes on and on until the entire village has Australian PR.
You only have one life so make youeself happy. Don’t be held back by dogma.
For me, Singapore makes me happy. I am happy to be in Singapore.
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this a disappointingly bad article. after the first few lines i was embarassed to even read this. i agree with the ppl who have said this article isnt good enough. if anything this type of childish writing makes PAP look better. thsi isnt helping anyone.
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for those people who travel to western countries and come back to complain that their tax are higher than SinCity, let’s me ask you this question.
Did someone point a gun at your head to go to western country ? Just because you feel that western countries have higher tax, Sincity should be contended as long as the tax is yet on par ?
WHERE IS THE CRITICAL THINKING THAT WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE WELL-KNOWN FOR ? DID YOU LEAVE YOUR BRAIN IN SINCITY WHEN YOU GO TO WESTERN COUNTRY ?
Have you ever ask yourself WHAT THE FART SINCITY NEED SO MUCH HIGH TAX FOR A BLOODY FARTING TINY RED DOT ? ESPECIALLY WHERE MOST OF THE TAX-MONEY GOES INTO GAMBLING CHIPS FOR TH AND GIC ? FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE, WE HAVE LOST MORE THAN $100 BILLIONS, AND YOU CLOWNS STILL SAYS THAT SINCITY IS BETTER OFF WITH LOWER TAX. SINCITY SHOULD DO BETTER BEEN SUCH A SMALL EASY TO CONTROL COUNTRY WITH NO NATURAL DISASTER UNLIKE MOST WESTERN COUNTRIES.
Instead of justifying critically for high tax, why clowns compare to western-counterpart blindly ?
ARE YOU SURE THAT GST IS TO HELP THE POOR ? LAST I REMEMBER THAT WKS DOESN’T WANT TO REVERT GST BECAUSE HE SAY TOO MANY ADMINISTRATIONS NEED TO BE DONE ? ISN’T THAT TELLING ENOUGH THAT GST IS TO SCREW YOUR BACKSIDE ?
SO WHERE IS EXACTLY are YOUR BRAINS ?
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For those who think that they can write better article than this and can gather so much good comment, go and write one for TR, and I make sure that I will be the first to comment !
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@Singapore,
I do agree that there are pros and cons in every country, i am not denying it, but I love it here because my pros outweighed my cons, and i am sure you are the same there in Singapore, as you been to “greener” pastures and found it not that verdant after all. I respect that.
However, when you started to offer views like in the UK the kids cannot spell their names etc then I began to worry because that’s too one-sided and honestly, it is not that simple. is that a reason for you not wanting to stay there, surely not. maybe it is the tax close to 50%? that might be good news because it means that you are probably amongst the top earners. cannot afford a house? that depends a lot on lifestyle not just property being too expensive. i know people who earn 50k annually that bought their own home and even have a few investment properties and professionals who earn 500k still renting. people tend to spend more than they earn, if you go by this logic, even a million dollars a year to most will not be enough. it is money habits. i remember many years ago ST ran an article about a singaporean who earned 3k a month after downgrading due to economy downturn claiming hardship, and they found that his expenses included operating the air-con for the whole flat 24/7. it is not surprising why most people cannot get ahead of themselves, be it singapore or elsewhere
i think it is also the attitude, i mean, i asked some singaporeans why they chose to work and live in melbourne and high on the list is that they can buy a car “cheap”. i mean is that all?
as for the internet, go and get a higher plan or package and stop using dial-up 54k download please, it is as simple as that. it is really not all internet sucks mind you, another of your distorted beliefs. do not believe me, go and google it, telstra, optus, tpg, iprimus etc, it is as good as singapore’s. there are 25 to 50 gb downloads and also unlimited ones, so you really need to know to make an informed opinion.
i think singapore’s and australia’s emigration policies are left to be desired, however, most indians and chinese are pr due to skills. if australian emigration is lax, then what can be said of singapore’s virtual opening of the floodgates? at least the australian government admits that the policy is not working and dare to change, whereas i haven’t heard PAP tell singaporeans that they’ve blundered instead asking the people to bear with it, upgrade or ________ you fill in the blanks.
that’s the problem with one party rule, no accountability. no independent commission or watchdog to flag issues of concern.
idiots, drugs they are everywhere, no country’s clean and i don’t think australia any worst off than singapore, in terms of vices.
water is a global problem if you are aware of environmental issues.
oh, one of the things said about australia amongst singaporeans is everything closes at 5, well, not true, however, if you consider singapore’s night life you really need it because whose going to patronise the shops 9am – 9pm when people busy working?
cheaper and faster are not always better, how about quality, attention to details and minimum standards?
melbourne, remember, is always amongst the world’s most livable cities.
We all can go on and on, but i hope you paint a full picture before starting to criticise.
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“… you and me would not be typing on this internet forum in english in the comfort of our air conditioned house. …
we would be planting rice on the field and sleeping in wooden houses like many countries.”
Which country would that be? Every country has a middle class, swatting away at the keyboard on the internet either in their mother tongue or English if you prefer. And you cannot compare rural neighbourhoods (even for developed countries) to urban ones, apples to oranges. Though I have to agree broadband in Singapore is the most reliable and highest value for bandwidth by far in SEA.
“…many entrepreuneurs overseas, many skilled professionals in business, sciences and less so in arts. you can go google singapore ceo, scientists or entrepreneurs yourself…”
And yet you cannot quote any offhand which indicates they are either not famous enough or not good enough to be the world’s first tier. And the few achieve that level of GLOBAL success, it was built IN SPITE of the PAP and not BECAUSE of the PAP. Creative’s Sim Wong Hoo is the best example.
“so one party keeps blocking all bills just to screw the other party over…”
So you expect people to roll over and die because of your say so? And no one actually knows what is the real decision making process of the PAP since Parliament is just a rubber stamp. Who knows what is really going on – whether merits or shortcomings of whatever policy are discussed out at length or arbitrarily decided by one man, worse still a cabal whose political agenda is based on another country’s opposition, not the wellbeing of this country’s (or city if you prefer) citizens.
Please if you wish to spin propaganda, please don’t rely on outdated perceptions, instead wake up and smell the coffee. The world’s busiest port in recession (which may not be Singapore btw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_busiest_port) notwithstanding, it has become evident to many that PAP lack competent people when GLCs start losing tens of billions of dollars and a limping wannabe terrorist.
“…real tangible source or citation.” “…childish writing”
I agree that the author lacks copy and paste skills and exhibited original arguments in perfect English grammar. I can see how someone like him can be marginalized in an environment that prizes conformity above capability. PAP cannot be unaware how far Singaporean standards have dropped; if Mr Riyahi’s article is the level of coffee shop talk (in any language) in Singapore, then congratulations we are truly a developed nation. But alas we have people of the opposite suasion stooping to the level of personal attacks.
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@Quitter,
Aiyo, classic. nothing to say, so act blur loh, only can bluff say liah bo kiew. Your name machiam very chun leh. Quitter = act blur, like slow prospects.
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this is such a crap article.
it is full of assertions without an iota of data to substantiate many (if not all) of its claims. for example:
“that when those primary one kids reach the age of university graduation, say 21-24 years, the average western kid is far more competent than our average Singaporean kid in English which though starts ahead, finishes last.”
what does the writer mean? who are these ‘average’ western kid? can the writer prove this assertion? how? what is the writer’s source of data? i can tell you for a fact that the average Singaporean’s English is actually better than the average western kid, considering that the average western kid is probably from a non-English speaking country, such as France, Germany, Latvia, Belgium, Spain, Italy, etc. and even if the writer didn’t mean English per se, i can tell you anecdotally, based on my experiences of having lived in Europe for a while, that the language ability of the average Singaporean is definitely higher than that of the average European.
another example of how ludicrous this article is:
“Europe took less than twenty years to become developed countries after becoming industrialised.”
where did the writer start counting the ‘twenty years’ from? mind you, England has a FAR longer history than Singapore. if you take the signing of the Magna Carta as a key milestone of English history, that’s a good thousand years of 700+ years before they started the process of ‘industrialising’. and if you take the starting of industrialisation as the point in time when England moved away from agriculture as its primary mode of production, i would say that industrialisation in England started in probably the 19th century. and if you know anything about history, 19th century England is probably one of the most horrid places to live in if you are not a member of the aristocracy and/or super wealthy. it therefore took England a good 150 years since it first started industrialising before there was a semblance of social welfare that is at best what we have in Singapore today.
yet another example:
“Though in most developed countries, the government do not provide housing solutions, they create opportunities for people to find accomodation in an affordable and sustainable way either through buying or renting.”
the writer of this article has clearly not been to these ‘most developed’ countries or tried to rent a flat/apartment in these apartments. a flat in zone 3 London would set you back by about SGD800 a month at least. and this flat would be probably be in an area where crime rate is many times higher than even the dodgiest part of Singapore (i.e. you wouldn’t want to be out at night alone) and you would have to spend at least an hour and a half to get to the city centre.
there are more examples. but i think anyone with some brains, anyone who reads critically, who doesn’t just accepts what he/she reads but goes further and takes personal effort to find out the truth, someone who is willing to verify what he/she reads, cross checks, demands for evidence, data and facts, would know that this article is a lousy one.
if we hope to advance democracy, have a more informed, critical electorate, challenge the government with a viable opposition, this is certainly not the way to go. in fact, this is super counter productive.
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@ Exposer
What was that all about? Who’s been complaining about the high tax rates in the West or in Singapore?
Hello, you in the same plane?
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Singapore can’t hold a candle to Hong Kong. Their private sector is able to thrive without government meddling. They have world class companies that are able to compete on the world stage, all in private hands. Disposable income for the average worker is higher, and even blue collar workers have higher income than in Singapore because there is no indiscriminate importation of low-end labour. Taxes there are lower and yet they have SOCIAL WELFARE! Public healthcare there is very affordable. They have freedom of speech! One can go on and on!!
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@ Anil on Tue, 23rd Feb 2010 4:43 pm
You are right on one score only . You are a University student relating to foreign students on international exchange program also in the closet academic intellect.
Wait till you OUT into the real world to know the difference!
I am at least TWICE your age and maybe X times your worldly experience. And there are many in TR who are like me – even more experienced.
singapore on Tue, 23rd Feb 2010 6:14 pm
“I would say Australia offers a better standard of living.”.
ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE DEAD RIGHT. It is a great place for me. Frequently there and love to be there.
As for your claim -somewhere of your UK buddy paying 50% tax rate ( yet allegedly working after 10 years or so and cannot put down payment for a mortgage )- not yet applicable until April 2010/2011 as one blogger pointed out – that is KNOWING RUBBISH. In a progressive tax rate country, if you are paying close to highest tax bracket of 40% (then when you were in UK) instead of soon-to-be 50% tax bracket which you falsely claimed to be true account – YOUR MATHEMATICS DON’T ADD UP!
For anyone paying very close to the highest tax bracket in any progressive tax regime, you must be earning at least 90% or more of your income captured by the highest tax bracket. In your example of highest tax bracket of allegedly 50,000 GBP, this buddy of your would have earned at least 90% of his income taxed at 50% – that it to say, earns before tax 450,000 GBP or more a year. On an after tax basis, he/she would be getting in hand 225,000 GBP a year. In 10 years, can’t afford a downpayment for a mortgage?? How much does he or she eat and drink a year and how much given to charity? Nobody believes your numbers – a few questioned you on your integrity of posts as I did find a lot of craps with your postings earlier.
As for internet in Australia, there are different plan. You pay more, you get access to better service. You pay cheap charlie, you get limited download per month and slower speed once you hit this barrier. I shared accomodation with 6 others and we all serving happily.
Bottomline, you can’t lie to people who are there, been there regularly and you can’t deceive people on simple financial mathematics – this is internet and cheap international transport age!!
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The official media in Singapore has a negative slant on all overseas news. They love to highlight the disasters, scandals and other negative aspects of other countries. They will never make an unfavourable comparison of Singapore. Still, some people hear what they want to hear, and for all their education and international travel, will believe wholeheartedly in the government mouthpieces.
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Here is the living proof.
We started the path of industrialisation first before the South Koreans do and they DONT EVEN WELCOME JAPANESE INVESTMENT given accumulated historic animosity and aggravated by second world war experiences.
Yet the outcome today – South Korea’s industrialisation is truly world class in predominantly heavy industries, Government-led and truly industrial giants servicing global markets.
And Singapore’s? Government-led, dominate the home turf, not good enough in light industries and to dare venture out aggressively even in the immediate region AND NO WORLD CLASS GIANTS CATERING TO GLOBAL MARKETS.
AND YES, WE STARTED FIRST AND FINISHING LAST. Even the Taiwanese and Hong Kong, with no incentives for foreign investment, did better.
Is the author wrong of a piece of artiistic satire? Or is it reality, the detractors of his writing too blind to see or aware?
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Or the detractors of this article all got distracted from the truth by caterpillars singing in unison of self-praise in that “funny zoo” and the appointed media sexing up the hype of self-adulation louder?
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@anon and quitter
i said it was around 50%. someone corrected me and said it was 40% and 35% and i accepted it. it’s just the tax percentage, i obviously can’t remember everything.
in london the average price of a property is £350,000. around 750,000 sgd. you can get some property for £100,000 but those are the ghetto kind.
this means anyone earning an average wage lucky enough to have £25,000 (55,000 SGD) in savings can only afford a £100,000 house from the bank.
internet in australia is just more expensive or more sucky than singapore.
the IT industry in australia is just backwards compared to singapore. like you said, everyone “takes it easy” there. people stroll in 2 hours late for work and that is acceptable. the plumber takes 2 weeks just to fix your clogged pipe. air conditioner takes 3 weeks just to fixed.
as for australia immigration? you should see the number of arranged marriages where people pay money to get married so they can get pr. when i was in australia, i met a few people who did that. i heard the going rate back then was around 10k sgd or 20k? i was quite shocked back then. it is totally illegal but they still do it.
@vege
it should be hong kong can’t hold a candle to singapore. the only country in asia that trumps singapore is japan.
i dont think you have been to hong kong. there is no social welfare at all i dont know where you got that from. the only “social welfare” is if you are desitute, they give u around 300 sgd a month which is not enough to even rent a room in hong kong. it is similar to singapore, they give u 330 sgd a month. you complain about old people picking cardboard boxes in singapore? plenty in hong kong for you to complain about.
they have freedom of speech? lol. they can’t even elect their own chief executive. their legislative councillors who supported democracy were recently banned from entering macau. they can march and protest all they want in hk but with beijing pulling the strings, i guarantee you that slowly but surely, you will see their rights curtailed. it has already begun. the bj govt was telling the hongkongers not to protest recently because “if they got violent, bj will send in the troops”. dont forget buddy, hong kong IS china now. the kids these days study in chinese not english. the british era is long gone. most hong kong kids these days cannot even string together a sentence in english. i have read some of the “assignments” set by their universities and they were in some of the worst english i have seen my entire life. all their unis are staffed with mainland professors who are supposed to teach in english but end up teaching in wtfish. i wouldn’t have a problem if they state that the courses are held in chinese or cantonese. the troubling thing is they advertised openly that the courses are held in english.
no doubt prior to 97 they had freedom of speech etc. beijing is closing in, that is all i can say.
i lived there as a NET. the “house” i stayed in was unbelieveably small and expensive. seriously, go and stay in hong kong before you compare. it is quite rediculous to compare sg and hk really. no comparison for me.
hong kong has a more vibrant feel, less big brother feeling. and yes the healthcare is very cheap for hkers. but other than that, singapore is really better than hong kong, and by quite a bit as well.
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@ Singapore
In your comments addressed to @vege you have stated that “there is no social welfare at all (in Hong Kong)”.
Actually, there is, and there are more comprehensive and progressive than those in Singapore. Under their Comprehensive Social Social Security Assistance Scheme (CSSA) they have a set of standard rates providing state assistance in the form of monthly allowances given to disabled people ranging from HK $1,990 to HK $4,375 and to aged people at HK $1,000. On top of that, the disabled gets another monthly allowance of HK $210 for transport. They also have monthly allowances for others qualifying for Single Parent Supplement (HK $255) and Community Living Supplement (HK $115). So, as you can see, their welfarism is definitely better than what the Singapore government is giving out to our underprivileged citizens.
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@Singapore
I forgot to add, on top of those mentioned, the HK government also has monthly supplements given to the poor : eligible singles being given HK $1,625 ; and monthly allowances given to families who have either ill, disabled, or old members – family comprising less than 5 members being given HK $3,255 and those with more than 5 HK $3,825.
Being an ex-colony of the British, the legacy of state welfarism is alive and well (though not to the extent being practised in the UK). Also, with sovereignty ceded to the PRC since 1999 and now a SAR, socialist welfare practices are being kept alive, and some day, they will probably be in tune with those practised in the mainland.
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you do realise that you have to pass an income test and asset test to qualify for those government aid?
interestingly i was just looking at the website since you brought it up and the asset limit is 22k hkd, which is 4k-5k sgd. so if you have 5k sgd of property, shares, valuables, cash, you will not qualify for the aid.
basically, it is for the destitute living on streets with nothing kind. just like in sg.
this means that only those who are very very poor and have very little asset (<5k sgd) can get the much coveted government payouts. they dont give u money just because you are old or handicapped or unemployed, you need to have less than 5k sgd worth of total assets to qualify AND earn less than 1200 sgd per month as well.
if you earn more than 1200 sgd a month or have more than 5k sgd worth of assets, you will get nothing from the govt even if you are starving or near dead. zilch, nada, zero.
do you have any idea how much rent costs in hk? the cheapest coffin esque room costs 550 sgd at least, that is the cheapest one. you only have enough space for a bed and small table and nothing else. it is like living in a coffin.
now assuming you dont even have 5k sgd of belongings and make less than 1.2k sgd a month, so you are definitely homeless. you get the govt aid of 3000hkd (600sgd). it is hardly enough to rent a room. what about food and transport bills?
please dont think hk is a welfare state. its social safety net is just about the same as singapore. if it was that easy, you wouldn't see old women collecting cardboard boxes everywhere in hong kong. really go to hk and take a look for youself.
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and one more thing, do you really think the PRC looks after its citizens? have you seen how poor ppl are in the PRC? millions of ppl still suffer from malnutrition in china do you know? especially in rural areas. some of them make 3000yuan(600sgd) the entire year and that is a good year.
have you seen the cost of houses in big cities of china ? they costs MORE or SAME AS your HDB in singapore. the average guy can work 100 years and still not be able to pay up his house.
hk has a legacy of state welfarism? you are living a pipe dream.
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LOL some people visited certain places momentarily and think they have seen and known everything. If you have only been to a tourist area of Hong Kong then I suggest you think twice before commenting. I have PERSONALLY visited public housing blocks there where old folks live very comfortably on government aid. Some of them have children who work but are not able to support them. They live in their apartment rent FREE. Public healthcare for them is FREE. One of them underwent surgery for colon cancer and it was FREE with follow-up home visits from medical worker. They have enough to go for yum char everyday if they so feel like it. It is a DIGNIFIED LIFE. They don’t have to vote for anybody to get this kind of welfare! The Hong Kong people CHOSE to keep this social safety net in place because they have a HEART. And YES despite being part of a communist country they have more freedom of speech than you! There is a facebook group against DAB, a pro-Beijing group and it has almost ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND MEMBERS! They are still able to demonstrate freely and they will fight hard to keep this right! What can you claim to have?
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This reminds me of some idiot from our country I overheard in a Hong Kong restaurant railing against welfare of any form. When he was babbling at the top of his voice about how Singapore and Hong Kong both did not have social welfare, his Hong Kong friends at the same table corrected him that Hong Kong indeed had comprehensive welfare. For one second he could not find his voice, and then he could only go on to stutter, “But.. but how can that be???” His world, constructed from years of brainwashing by Singapore media, came crashing down around him. Maybe the idiot is in this forum lol!
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This reminds me of some idiot from our country I overheard in a Hong Kong restaurant railing against social welfare of any sort. When he was babbling at the top of his voice about how great it was that neither Singapore nor Hong Kong had any, his Hong Kong friends at the same table corrected him that Hong Kong did indeed have comprehensive social welfare. For one second his voice failed and then he could only stutter, “But, but how can that be??” His worldview constructed of years of conditioning by the state media came crashing down around him. Maybe the idiot is in this forum lol!
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vege,
Wah! What version of democracy you want? You are eager to demonstrate ah? You are thrilled to see taxi, bus and airlines go on boycott ah? You seem so satisfied to see good, because it shows “democracy”……
Since you are so knowledgeable, how much of their tax do they spend on welfare? If they are so good like you said, then how come their gini is no good? Aiyo, don’t tell me.. their welfare is so so only. Also, how many blocks did you visit? Did you try to follow them when they apply? Did you research how many application was approved?
HKD1000-2000 is how much SGD only??? Very big, is it? Singapore grants are very much less meh?
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anonymous on Wed, 24th Feb 2010 12:05 pm said:
“We started the path of industrialisation first before the South Koreans do and they DONT EVEN WELCOME JAPANESE INVESTMENT given accumulated historic animosity and aggravated by second world war experiences.”
er… South Korea’s industrialisation was already well underway in the 1950s… even before PAP came into power in Singapore. so what exactly do you mean?
besides, while it is true that South Korea didn’t get any FDI from Japan, but they have MASSIVE support from America, which is not surprising, given the tactical importance of South Korea.
so what exactly is the point of your comment?
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care to point out which “out of this world” govt aid schemes they are under? it shouldnt be that hard to find them on websites these days.
singapore does have subsidised housing for old people as well, they rent them out for below 100 bucks if i recall. yes hong kongers do have more freedom of speech but they just dont have the freedom to elect their own leaders. same difference. and they just happen to be under a very communistic, despotic, anti human rights and heavy handed country called China. would i want to be a hong konger living under beijing rule? no thank you.
free healthcare, free follow up, rent free, free yum char money daily.
does it come with a free hello kitty as well?
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I won’t be surprised if CSJ come here for inspirations..
PS: Mr Chan Soo Juan and gang likes to read funny articles.
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seriously you are living a pipe dream.
back up your tall tales with some evidence rather then some “my friend says story”. show me the particular scheme’s website.
let me start.
here are all the government aid schemes in hong kong. there is no “enough money for yum char” scheme like you mentioned. only “not even enough money to buy food” schemes.
http://www.swd.gov.hk/en/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_comprehens/
you have to have pass the assets test (ie less than 5k sgd assets) and means test (ie earn less than 1.2k sgd) to qualify for any govt aid. and the aid they give u is hardly enough to cover rent. you will have no or very little money for food on government aid.
i dont know where you can find the hk govt giving you free healthcare free rent free allowance plus yum char money. probably in your dream land. you need to wake up and face reality when you are ready.
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boasting is one thing. facing the reality is another.
hong kong old people “yum char’ing” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGogr62u1XU
those squeezy dirty little rooms sure remind me of my days in hong kong. the cheaper ones dont even have an elevator, only stairs.
where is the yum char?? they “yum char” all day only when they dream.
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This hong konger has no money to pay for rent. What happened to the “yum char” dream? By the way, one of these “caged beds” costs around 150USD, you can co-rent a cheap bedroom in singapore and live in a much better surrounding with that amount of money. house prices and rent in hong kong is rediculous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COkTzc47D1o
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Stupid is as stupid does. How long does it take a person to go through $5k? Are you planning to retire on that amount? And wow no stairs!! End of the world! Yes better no freedom of speech than no stairs! And no my friend did not say. I happen to visit these old folks every month, instead of some armchair expert who reads a page here and there and thinks he is a social commentator!
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@ Anonymous
Sir, i do not doubt for one moment your ‘worldly experience’, and the sagacity (i hope) that ought to be a consequence of that. Nor was the purpose of my comments to cast aspersions on the literary capabilities of the writers at TR.
Perhaps, because i was brought up in a poor family, or that i have seen what debilitating penury can do to the soul and psyche of a people from my travels to ‘third world’ countries that has compelled me to come to the conclusion that the greatest right that a human has, that should be morally and philosophically unalienable, is the right to live; the right to three squares a day, the right to go to sleep with a roof over his/her head, and knowing it will all be there when he/she wakes up the next day. On this score, no one can begrudge the fact that Singapore has had the greatest increase in the standard of living of any country in human history over that span of the last four decades.
You, sir, are free to live wherever you please but this business of sniping from the sidelines seems unbecoming of a person of your ‘worldly experience’.
If you really want the changes you so passionately espouse, throw your chips in the political domain here. You can start by doing away with your ‘anonymous’ moniker.
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vege do you speak english? i don’t understand what you are saying. i have worked in hk as a NET before and i have never heard anything similiar to what you are saying.
instead of saying “my hk friend says” or “i visit them every month”, could you provide any evidence of the “generous government aid” in HK? it should be that hard to point us to a government webpage.
you can’t provide any evidence, can you?
and you know why? because they don’t exist. maybe these old people are living off their own hard earned pensions(MPF fund) or maybe they have insurance covering their hospital visits, but i am sure they do not live off HK govt aid like that. HK govt aid is so little it is deplorable. it is just about the same as singapore.
hong kong has never been a welfare state in its history. hong kong also never had democracy before. the leader of hong kong is not elected democratically. they can protest all they want, at the end of the day, beijing is still the boss. seriously, have you even been to hong kong before. even as a tourist? you do know that HK is a city in CHINA don’t you? you do know that even the chief executive of HK has to obey CHINA’s instruction don’t you?
oh yes, btw i visit old people in JB every month. they all live off the malaysian govt and the govt give them so much money they go to KTV lounges every night. you are an idiot for staying in singapore. go to jb and see how they take care of their old people. don’t believe me? i visit them every week! just don’t ask me for an official website or any evidence, because i am bullshitting just like you are. LOL.
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bravo Anil. ignorant old trash needs to be put in his place. and great grammar as well, signs of a higly intelligent educated man. i just hope all our uni students are like you.
could you could teach “anonymous” how to write proper grammar? everytime i read something from him, my eyes bleed. “anonymous” does have a good vocab but his grammar is worse than a ten year old.
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@ Anil on Thu, 25th Feb 2010 6:05 pm
“Singapore has had the greatest increase in the standard of living of any country in human history over that span of the last four decades”
Reality check here, Anil. South Korea fit your descript above of human history than even China, let along your wet dream of Singapore.
Btw, people contribute to society in different forms, different shapes, and different avenues an anonymity does leave the other side confused and unprepared until the very last moment when the tide of change swept in.
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singapore
You are right to say that in HK the recipients for welfare need to go through an income and asset verification process. I was just pointing out to you that they do have social welfare benefits in response to your earlier comments to @vege wherein you had mentioned that they do not have any social welfare at all.
I think all countries have their own system of social welfare benefits and payments, the adjudication of which may vary from country to country.
I must say I am in no position to question your other points regarding the state of low living among the very lower stratum of HK society, i.e. whether they are worst off or better than here, as I do not have any travelling experience there or in mainland China too. However, I think in as far as medical treatment or hospitalisation is concern, it is generally free in the PRC for normal ailments which do not require specialist resources.
I am sure you observation of your travels there, or to Australia and other parts of the continents, have given you considerable insight on the standard of living in these places and would like to thank you for sharing them with our readers here.
Regards
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@ singapore on Thu, 25th Feb 2010 9:17 pm
My grammar – not a ten year old grade.That is okay, you know very well from my proud declaration here I failed my kindergarten leaving examination.
But your PGCE, broadcasted to the world, is worth a slavery teaching job of only $3,000 per month. COULD NOT EVEN INTERPRET ONE SMALL PASSAGE OF LAW WRITTEN IN ENGLISH I SUPPLIED TO TEST YOUR COMPETENCY. That is embarassingly toilet grade of academic qualification unmeritorious of a livelihood outside the safe turf of MOE and demeaning of your educational track to be so hateful of elderly and todler whom you call “scums”. So sad, your mom and dad are “scums” by your repeated declarations.
And then came your bragging of your prospective MBA by long distance phone-call variety – the lowest grade of academic pursuit. And want to be a business consultant yet don’t know where to start when I give you several REAL WORLD projects to test your real subtance. As expected you successfully attained failed minus grade – in fact won’t dare even attempt one. There goes your expensive toilet paper grade MBA in disgrace. I suggest you buy some fake degree printed in Malaysia sold by smarty PRC polytechnic graduate – cheaper, faster and less embarassing of no substance.
And last but not least, fake UK tax rate at 50% expecting no one to debunk your usual load of rubbish. And of course, the financial mathematics fall into disrepute so quickly. It only take someone like me failing kindergarten leaving examination to see through your hoax of easy predictability of trash you habitually painted on TR.
Go and buy yourself a new brain, you might get a bit more respect of your intellect of no substance.
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crc on Wed, 24th Feb 2010 11:26 pm
I made a comment.
We started the path of industrialisation first before the South Koreans do and they DONT EVEN WELCOME JAPANESE INVESTMENT given accumulated historic animosity and aggravated by second world war experiences.”
and you countered to propose
“er… South Korea’s industrialisation was already well underway in the 1950s… even before PAP came into power in Singapore. so what exactly do you mean?”
Well, my response is that YOU ARE FACTUALLY WRONG. South Korea’s industrialisation WAS NOT already well underway in the 1950s….THE KOREAN WAR ENDED IN MASSIVE DESTRUCTION IN 1953.
And the correct truth is here
“Park is generally credited as playing a pivotal role in the development of South Korea’s economy by shifting its focus to export-oriented industrialization. When he came to power in 1961, South Korean per capita income was only USD 72, and North Korea was a greater economic and military power on the peninsula due to large amounts of economic, technical and financial aid, which came from the Soviet Union and other communist bloc countries such as East Germany and Poland.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Chung-hee
As late as 1961 when the late President Park Chung Hee swept into power, South Korea per capita income was only USD 72 per head. THEY ARE POOR AGRARIAN ECONOMY WITH NO MONEY for even agrarian reform.
It took Park almost a decade to politically move the country toward an end of animosity towards Japan, and get some loan and credit from that country to start Korea’s massive industrialisation in the early 1970s.
And yes, US Government did gave some aid to South Korea in exchange for KOREA’S WAR COMMITMENT AND MILITARY ASSISTANCE to US war efforts in Vietnam which must also involve massive costs to South Korea as well. I believe Korea supplied over 30,000 soldiers – the largest contigent of “allied forces” backing US military.
As for the massive industrialisation, it was a sole KOREAN efforts. Most of the giant Korean entities are listed on the Korean Stock Exchange, their shareholdings DO NOT show foreign ownership but majority owned by chaebol and Korean nationals. America’s aid therefore is NOT a material factor in Korea industrialisation success.
What is my point, you asked?
My point is exactly what this article say, Singapore started first and ended last. For industrialisation, this is definitely true, Korea started later than us and finished first!! So the conclusion of the author here is NOT wrong in this respect.
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Anil, it is not cool to speak like pompous Mr Collins anymore. Squeezing every bombastic word you can think of into every single sentence doesn’t make up for the lack of substance. May I recommend “The Complete Plain Words” by Sir Ernest Gowers for you reference? According to Amazon, it is the essential guide for anyone who needs to express themselves clearly, fluently and accurately in writing?
Singapore, yes Hong Kong is so very far away and inaccessible that you must be the only person with the good fortune to have ever been there and crashed at Chungking Mansions lol!
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vege, still no evidence from you. you said you visit old people in hong kong weekly and these old people receive government aid. they have rent,hospital bills, food all paid by the HK govt. and they even have enough money leftover to “yum cha” everyday. i said that was a total lie. hong kong was never a socialist of welfare state. the social safety net in hong kong is akin to singapore’s. the only thing i agree with you is that hong kong’s healthcare is world class and dirt cheap for its residents (ROA holders).
why don’t you let us know the exact name of the government aid these people are on already? i have asked you 3 times! it can’t be that hard to recall the name and provide a website.
because there is no such govt aid in HK. you are living a pipe dream.
yum cha daily on govt aid? more like yum water daily.
hong kong has freedom of speech? yes i saw the july marches when i was there working as a NET. but they have been doing that for more than 10 years now and they still can’t elect their own leaders democratically, take a hint will you? hong kong never had real democracy in its history. under the british, they were assigned a governor from britain. under china, the chief executive was elected from by a group of “upper class” people, not by the populace. you can already see beijing putting people into all the high places in hk now.
why do you think the hong kongers are so pissed?
Newsflash! One third of Legco members who support democracy have been refused entry into Macao ->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP1fAZuD9kM&feature=youtube_gdata
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the hong kongers really have no say about democracy or universal suffrage in hong kong. it is up to their big bosses in beijing. the hong kongers wanted elections in 2010 or 2012. they protested for over a decade for it from 1998-2010. the chief executive donald tsang fought hard for it.
beijing simply told them to go fly a kite. beijing says alright, we will have elections it in 2020. will it really happen in 2020? i dont know. we can all wait and see.
the men in beijing call the shots in hong kong for all “big issues”. make no mistake about it.
which are the asian countries that can compare with singapore?
japan, south korea, taiwan, hong kong. 4 tigers.
look closer. japan, south korea and taiwan all received massive US aid over time. they are rich today because US supported them. with the exception of taiwan, all of them have massive numbers of us troops based in their country.
in fact, the constituition of japan was written by the americans. if not for the americans, south korea today would be under the north korean dictator. in the 1950 war between north and south korea, north korea took over the entire south korea with the exception of a relatively small port area. the americans came just in time. they landed at the port, began amassing their men and tanks and pushed north korea back. without the americans, south korea will undoubtedly be under north korea today.
hong kong is rich because of the british backing till the 1997 handover.
only singapore had no backing, no massive foreign aid. we unilaterally declared independence from britain. singapore did not even have water and food.
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btw i meant “compare with singapore in terms of gdp per capita” in my previous post
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What is Gross Domestic Product?
“The gross domestic product (GDP) or gross domestic income (GDI) is a basic measure of a country’s overall economic output.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product
Any economist would agree on that.
GDP per capita is simply GDP divide by population however that is defined.
For Singapore it is a VERY POOR AND DISTORTED MEASURE OF WEALTH FOR SINGAPOREANS. Why?
Apart from public sector, most of the big business are FOREIGN-OWNED FROM MANUFACTURING TO BANKING SECTOR TO TRANSPORT AND COMMUNICATION, AND THEREFORE MOST OF THE BENEFIT OF GDP OUTPUT BENEFIT FOREIGNERS.
In Korea, Taiwan and Japan, most of the big business are DOMESTIC ENTERPRISE FROM INTEGRATED STEEL MILLS, TO CONSUMER AND CAPITAL GOODS TO FINANCIAL SERVICE, GDP WOULD MORE CLOSELY REFLECT THEIR DOMESTIC OUTPUT.
Singapore GDP and GDP per capita would shrink rapidly once foreign enterprises leave this country and/or infrastructural construction slowed down substantially.
With budget deficit now and years to come, contruction-related development from Government sector will fall. GDP might actually decline in 2009 and for the interval from (negative) 2009 to (forecast only) 2010, GDP can only at best achieve 2% growth. Going forward it will be tougher to sustain unless US economic recovery maintain traction.
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Armchair expert – you are so well travelled you don’t have a single Hong Kong friend to confirm with. And who is more pathetic – someone who has no democracy but is fighting for it everyday and will continue to fight for it as their right under the Basic Law, or someone who started off with a democratic system but has chosen to give up their basic human rights in exchange for lift upgrading, and think they are living in paradise too!!
Idiot: “But.. but but but how izzit possible??” LOL!
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anonymous
The actual definition is known as GDP at purchasing power parity per capita (value of total goods and services produced within the nation divided by the average population).
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PAP Model : Starting Ahead and Finishing Last
February 22, 2010 by admin
Filed under Columnists, Hurr Riyahi
So Nurr Riyahi,
Shd we adopt the Malaysian (UMNO’s) NEP model or the Indonesian model?
LOL.
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I Tread The Middle Path on Fri, 26th Feb 2010 12:09 pm
Thank you!
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chinese helicopter. tok tok tok tok tok .
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oei chinese helicopters vege and anon,
if you read my posts, you would see that i mentioned australia and many european countries are better places to live in compared to singapore. japan is better than singapore as well.
but hong kong is a better place to live in than singapore? only in your dreams.
and still no evidence from vege. no website, no nothing. only more useless name calling.
chinese helicopters, lift off! tok tok tok tok tok tok ..
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@ singapore on Fri, 26th Feb 2010 4:21 pm
No need to beg for my sympathy of believability AFTER SPEWING so much rubbish coming out from you.
And for goodness sake, stop bragging about your toilet-grade English PGCE and MBA-in-waiting – there are millions of MBAs and PGCEs around in this planet.
Nobody envy you nor admire you for that – definitely not me even though I failed my kindergarten leaving examination.
Debate with substance of truth and merit, not empty boast if you want to be entertained seriously.
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singapore on Mon, 22nd Feb 2010 4:22 pm
“singaporeans speak 2 langauges or more, they speak only 1 language. if you take singaporeans who speak english as their L1, like florance lian, dick lee etc, you will see they speak/write better english than the average “westerner” AND they can understand 1-2 more langauges as well”
dick lee sings We Are Singapore!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wk51lfLfIQ
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a flawed essay this is, too presumptuous and ignorant. go look beyond the island before making such a bold statement
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Yes size matters, more people = more levies: GST, COE, ERP, Income, Property, Foreign Worker, Foreign Maid, S-Pass Holder, Skills Development, HDB Resale, Stamp Duties, Independent Schools, Formula 1, Ship Bunker, Petrol, Utility, Garbage, Cigarette, Alcohol, Casino etc
What will they think of next? Oxygen levy? If no solution, increase levy charges!
Don’t blame me hor, I support leh!
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How true size matters.
For a city of 5 million, Singapore has the biggest govt on the planet in terms of personnel and costs.
Instead of one mayor or governor, this city is run by a forecaster along with his son, who in turn needs 2 SMs, 2 DPMs, 4 Ms in the PMO, cabinet ministers/ministers of state, perm secs, cheer leaders, etc, etc and of course one walk-over president to shakes hands, cut ribbons and suppose to protect whatever that is remaining of the city’s reserves.
So do not worry folks, logically Spore will never run last.
Not with the largest number of ministers per citizens plus they are also the best on this planet.
Afterall, Spore can’t be that daft to pay out of this world salaries to so many ministers and not get the best, right ?
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Singapore Productivity Model
How true size matters, more foreign workers more levy.
More ministers more pay.
According to a TODAY report on 23 February 2010: “Salaries for political appointments – ministers, ministers of state and parliamentary secretaries – are estimated to be $58.28 million, or 8.8 per cent higher than last year.”
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@ SingaporeanSingapore on Sun, 28th Feb 2010 10:08 pm
What is worse, we don’t even get mediocre performance from those “size-of-pay-matters” – caught off guard.
If there is oxygen tax, citizenry would be asking who is wasting oxygen in this country.
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I agree with writer of this article. A top elite school Principal did admit that despite their 150+ year history, they have not produced a single noble prize winner.
My daughter as well as my son are both in top elite secondary school. My son is still young but my daughter has already made up her mind that she is so sick of heavy-headed attitude of Singapore system, that she will not come back to Singapore if she goes to overseas for study on her own money. I am trying to pursue her to take Government scholarship but she has seen the plight of Government scholars so she is not much interested in Government scholarship either.
A FT friend of mine who works in Banking area told me that his company has interns from NUS / NTU. He told me that he is really shocked to see the shallowness of the graduates that NUS/NTU churns out. In fact he is contemplating leaving Singapore and go back to his country because he thinks it is not a good idea to bring up your children in such a environment of high IQ but low EQ.
Bottomline is this – PAP is responsible for inculcating “Kiasu” mentality amongst Singaporeans and we see the worst behaviour at sites like STOMP which is not only immature but plain disgusting. What kind of f!@#$g society has Singapore become thanks to PAP’s over-emphasis on grades, money and position as sole criteria of success in life.
I am completely turned off by condescending tone of PAP leadership right from top to low-life MP’s who have never had to contest election in SMC.
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Netizen on Tue, 2nd Mar 2010 2:07 am..”heavy-headed attitude of Singapore system…..PAP’s over-emphasis on grades, money and position as sole criteria of success in life.”
That selfish greed and cruel competition have robbed all happiness and peace from the heart of this land.
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Haha can’t help but to laugh my head off whenever I read singapore’s comments! Full of wrong assertions and even when people corrected him, he still have the nerves to rebut with his poor logic and argumentative skills and yet sounding so sure of himself at the same time. What a disgrace!
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Let me try to analyze this singapore dude. It is quite clear he or she (I still have a feeling this singapore is a she) is quite well read. The problem I have with him is his interpretation and comprehension skills. His arguments are full of contradictions and logical fallacies. Let’s just hope TR readers are smart enough to know that and just ignore him. It is just a waste of time trying to argue with him or SHE!
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