Kong Hee: “‘I believe that the City Harvest story will continue to unfold”
June 19th, 2010 | 
Author: 
Controversial founder of City Harvest Church (CHC) Senior Pastor Kong Hee remains optimistic about the church’s future despite being embroiled in ongoing police investigations over alleged misuse of church funds.
Pastor Kong was called up together with 16 other CHC members on 31 May 2010 by police from the Commercial Affairs Departments for investigations. Their laptops were reportedly seized.
This was followed a few other members including his wife pop singer Ho Yeow Sun who returned from the United States last week to assist in the investigations.
Pastor Kong who had kept out of public spotlight since the saga erupted wrote on his blog that he and his family are “doing well.”
“‘Because we’re in the midst of the investigation, I am unable to provide any details about the progress besides what already has been released by the Singapore Police in their statement to the press,” he added.
It is not known who lodged the initial police report against CHC which was placed under intense public scrutiny three months ago for its purchase of a stake in Suntec.
Founded in 1989 by Pastor Kong, CHC has grown to become the largest church in Singapore with a congregation of 33,000, its members including some MPs and celebrities.
Pastor Kong ended his message expressing his confidence that his CHC “story” will continue:
“It has been a glorious 20 years of church building filled with tears and triumph, brokenness as well as breakthroughs. I believe that the City Harvest story will continue to unfold.”
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Posted in Editorial
Kong Hee will be labelled eternally. Kong Hee don’t seem to understand the hidden agenda of the PAP government move to drag every CEO of charitable or rather cash rich organisation out for shaming and in the end who will profit from this venture? It is the PAP who is short of cash after the losses sustained by Temasek and GIC.
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“I believe that the City Harvest story will continue to unfold. Meanwhile, keep the faith in ME and continue to donate until your tears come down and my bank account scream with ecstasy.”
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Look here, there is no such thing as ” believe in me and have full faith and you will go heaven “.
Observe those christian pastors & their followers comments on other religions and one will easily find this religion out dated and beyond cured.
Being clever does not constitute one to have Wisdom
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For sure, 20 glorious years of making money from ignorant weak minded individuals. There’re always more just around the corner, ripe for the taking, if only the Police will get out of the way….
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The entire episode absolutely fills me with glee.
I cannot help it.
I am contemplating buying coffee for everyone if this guy is locked up and they key is thrown away.
hello, I’ll throw in a couple of Char Seow Bao for good measure as I am feeling generous.
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`That guy is a crook. I’m willing to put forth 10% of my salary for 20 years as part of the public fund to get the best prosecution lawyer to ensure this guy together with his gang of con-men & con-women stay behind bars for as long as possible so they will stop ‘damaging’ the already weak minds of our teenagers.
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“Pastor Kong who had kept out of public spotlight since the saga erupted wrote on his blog that he and his family are “doing well.”
Off course Kong and his family are doing well. It’s those donor suckers who are not doing well. Pastor Joseph Prince now call all City Harvest donors to re-route their donations to New Creation Church cos Pastor Joseph Prince needs to double his salary. Thank you all donors.
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Dont feel sad. This is just a national policy.
Just just think it is with Christian. Some time bad, many temples were powerful and rich. The big brother moved in and installed Chairman all linked to the government. So now, its the Churches’ turn. After they installed their people, service will remain normal.
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If you see his wife performing in Las Vegas you’ll be totally shocked that her husband is a pastor of a mega church in Singapore. She is even on YouTube. What is happening to the Singaporean Christians?
His congregation should be made aware. Is this his Christian teaching? Who are the elders and members of of the Board of Directors
of City Harvest?
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Weil:
June 19, 2010 at 9:50 pm
Among the weak mind, include some rather old teenagers like Ho Peng Kee, 77th Street’s Elim Chew. Not too sure the are the conned or the conners
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I think Kong Hee should change his name to Con Hee. Why Con Hee? Because he CONS people into giving their money away so that he can HEE HEE his way to the bank.
In the Youtube Kong Hee videos, Pastor Kong tells sick people with heavy medical bills, kids with ang-bao money, students, unemployed and housewives with not much money to give and give until their hearts are broken and tears stream down from their faces.
Ask people to downgrade their flats while he upgrades his own. Not only that, he got to own several properties when each person needs only to have a roof over his head. It is glorious to be rich but not ok if it is done at the expense of other people’s hard-earned money.
On judgment day, he will face God. He better watch out.
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You can believe in a religion but not too in to it!
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How many condos this guy have eh? How come he never sell and downgrade but ask people to do it? Cannot understand his teaching leh..
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Mark, Rony, KH and the Prince thing have to get used to be together, as we may share the same jail cell. a whole new meaning for cell group.
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Some pastors or monks are con men. They are not real religion believers but business men. That’s for sure.
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Kong Hee, You will not go to heaven. I do not allow cheats to stay in my kingdom.
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please see http://sinazen.com/cityharvest also chinese version http://sinazen.com/%E5%BA%B7%E5%B8%8C
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Inflection Point = Breaking up into different direction.
Trajectory = Under pressure, some leaders jump, taking away others along. Evidence Based = Members lose confident, leave, disassociate, start their own. Doing what is necessary to succeed = Big Giant Church being cut up and distribute the pieces. Necessary Evil, aint pretty, but something need to done. Another Fa-Lun-Gong, too big, with too many members at important organization all over Singapore.
Boh Liao hor, I look at the map of china
How did Xinjiang become a Muslim states, past records shown they are Buddhist, their neighbor are Tibetian. Pakistan had a stronger influnced
Noticed: Being 3rd Generation Singaporean, my observation (Our Roots) (Our Forefather) (Our Dialects) are all from…
1) Southern part of China, mainly Fujian Pu-Tian, An-Hui, Guang-Dong, Hai-Nan, Xia-Men
2) They are mostly close to Coast Areas, expose to the ocean, most are used to transportation of boats
3) Despite of being next door province, their dialect is a big different, communciate is a problem (required pu-tong-hua)
4) Southern States people possess Entreprenurship Spirit, many are willing to leave their hometown to search for greener pasture
5) Northen States people (at the period) are constant at war with Koreas tribes, Mongolia tribes, Japanese tribes (Govt, Military Post, Scholars Northen people are re-occupied with such activity)
6) Why didn’t Jiangsu tribes, Zhejiang tribes at most goes to Shanghai, did not move any further? to South East Asia?
7) Conclusion must be Jiangsu, Zheijiang, Shanghai are rich states
9) Fujian Pu-tian, besides their favorites dish rough noodles, from young I realise my mother cooking are salty. But Guang-Dong, my granny Cantonese foods tend to be sweet.
10) It was the British, free entrepot at Singapura that lure most of us to Singapore shores. Mainly from Rubber, Spieces and Oil Palms
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Wife a pop singer? Hah! LOL! I have been travelling back and forth US for quite a bit and I so far has assumed to be quite au-fait with celebrity news and singing sensations there. Pop singer in USA she is not! She is most likely no better than Anita Sarawak who claimed to have performed in LAS VEGAS but actually in a small dinky pub not on the main strip of Vegas… Let us not place this vamp on a pedestal and make her seemed bigger than she really is. When she turned from a fly-gril into a commanding superstar like Jennifer Lopez, then maybe we can reference her more appropriately as a “pop singer” in U.S.A…..LOL
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20 glorious years of planning to mesmerised the congregation into donating their money !
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The “TRUTH” must and shall prevail.To live the way you & your spouse do in the name of JESUS is the LIES THAT MUST UNFOLD and the poor souls deceived by a devious tongue must return to the FLOCK where the TRUE teachings of CHRIST will unfold before their very eyes where giving a dollar in the eyes of GOD will receive more BLESSINGS than the giving till tears roll down your eyes to feed the finery and lifestyle of REV????Kong Spouse & child.
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Hi Adamone.. Can you please tell us where according to you is the TRUE teachings of Christ??
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Michael,
Shallow understanding is the real problem.
Confucius: 学而不思则罔，思而不学则殆
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http://www.letusreason.org/Wf6.htm
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weil please contact TR staff here with your bank account info. don’t just make noise
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U_chewonit:
June 20, 2010 at 7:43 am
” claimed to have performed in LAS VEGAS but actually in a small dinky pub not on the main strip of Vegas… Let us not place this vamp on a pedestal and make her seemed bigger than she really is. ”
A very good point.
Easy to smoke those 33,000 who thinks anything angmo is tuakee.
She may be performing to an equivalent of a beer and vomit smelling sleazy Geylang pub joint with ah peks drooling. And then come back here in Singapore to boast that she is a hollywood star.
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Pastor Kong who had kept out of public spotlight since the saga erupted wrote on his blog that he and his family are “doing well
His family is not only “doing well” but exceptionally and amazingly well! In today’s Newpaper, it has been reported that his “celebrity” wife is living in a $28,000/mth home in the US!What an obscene extravagance for a Pastor’s wife!! Hope this rental is not from the CHC’s church offering bags??
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I give $100 to you and in return I shall be getting 30 folds, 60 folds and 100 folds for my return.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efuRZyCl1kc&feature=related
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Bishan Park,
100 folds har, Doesnt it resembles betting on the roulette at the Casinos?
Connman hehe’s operations resembles a casino to me, and the jackpot is a one way ticket to heaven it is no wonder why those brainwashed sheeps all fall for this hook bait and sinker.
It is just so sad that the other preachers/pastors sit back and watch this without uttering a word of concern their silence by itself has already made them an accomplice to this connman.
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Hi@
The TRUE teachings of Christ lies in his Parables,Sermon on the Mount and the way he conducts his public LIFE and most of all his ULTIMATE SACRIFICE on the Cross where His TRUE followers believes he gave HIS LIFE for the SINS of the world.
Its a TEACHING human have a choice to believe or not to as there are other ALTERNATIVES to Heaven,Nirvana or Blissland or even returning to earth as a cockroach.
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NoActionTalkOnly:
See how greedy the members are? They presume by giving, then their money will multiply 30,60 and 100 folds. How stupiak ! (stupid plus one tight slap together)
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Using Church funds to support the couple rich & famous lifestyle?
It is not about Pastor Ho Yeow Sun USA music career
It is not about Pastor Ho Yeow Sun fashion shops
It is not about Pastor Kong Hee driving Mercedes CLK 550 SUV
It is not about Pastor Kong Hee living in a 2.6 million condo
It is not about Pastor Ho Yeow Sun Hollywood L.A home 28K per month
It is not about Pastor Kong Hee by sea sailing yatch
Church members should continue to donate money as they see fit
35,000 members too strong liao
Most members could be found in all private & Govt organization
Mega churches is growing and expanding too fast
Mega churches going to the private sector buying land
Mega churches going to the private sector buying Suntec
Mega churches going to East Coast Park, spreading influnce
Mega churches going to the private sector doing business
Mega churches going regional, having too much influnce
Project with 5 yrs City Harvest could reach 100,000 members strong
Need a strict strong man to keep these churches small and managable
Someone had to put a cap on their growth…
Nothing personal, what would Republican Party do when they get into power? Oh yeah, the Republican will put a cap on the Akon organization, spilt em” up, or smear them, stop their ability to grow
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USA Republican will halt the grow of the Akon Organization
CHINA CCCP will halt the grow of the Fa-Lung-Gong Organization
Singapore Govt. actually stay netural at the AWARE meeting, they did not want to see the Religious Organization spreading their influnce
Stay small, stay manageble, you will be okay
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I have been approach by their members and I always think they are cult -like
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Sidetrack a bit from Kong Hee:
I’m not a fan of Sun Ho but give credit when it’s due. It’s very common to strip all credits from someone you don’t like. That’s very narrow minded and vicious especially if claimed so widely travelled. Bull.
Sun Ho may not be JLo but give credit to her accomplishments as an artiste. I doubt David Foster would wanna produce her album or that ONJ or Wyclef…etc would record a duet with her, or that she sang the Olympic opening song in Beijing or on all the many No.1s on Billboard Dance Charts…etc..if she were a dingy club singer. She has done way much better than Anita Sarawak, and Anita has not done that badly either too. Nothing to do with ang mo big big.
Give them the credit. Btw, what has all the critics done as compared to them? NOTHINg but usual bitching!
Be fair. Don’t be like MIW types and everything do the”LIE and DENY”.
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To me, in the old days this would have been labeled a cult with undertones that one can buy and sing your way into heaven.
Sad to see that members fantically belief when they give to the church, they feel better…why not give directly to the poor? Walk up to the maqny beggers we see now on the streets and give them a few hundred dollars. This move could earn you more than a year of singing, attending ‘rock concerts’ and talking in tongues in your church.
Is this church using your money to multiply it so that more goes into charity? The answer is no. Open your blinded eyes and see how rich the church has become and the lifestyles you are giving these “pastors”. More like “Posers” of GOD. Please break-free from this drug or veil that has been placed over your kindness and sincerity.
And shame on those who want ten-fold of their “contributions” and wealth by giving to the church. Is it charity or greed and wealth that motivates you? You call yourselves christians when you expect more in return?
I would belive Christ would have wanted this followers to give and expect nothing back in return…
Reflect the horde of City Harvest, your leader and his inner circle may be a conman of dubious intentions, but you still have a choice.
Just my opinions.
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Lim Pei Say Swee Swee:
June 20, 2010 at 7:04 pm
Btw, what has all the critics done as compared to them?
Nothing. you are right. Nothing of the dispicable thing she has done,
You said It’s very common to strip all credits from someone you don’t like. then you point at MIW, obviously something you don’t like. you just did what you think others should not do. haha. btw,what has MIW gotta do with this issue?
You said That’s very narrow minded and vicious especially if claimed so widely travelled. who ever claimed to be well travelled here? Ho Sun maybe.
Keep your deluded twisted logic inside your ass for yourself, and go preached KH and SH blindly she need your moneuy to pay her $28k rent each month. go on live your pathethic life and spareu from your twisted moronic logic
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to Lim Pei Say Swee Swee:
she did not sing at the Beijing Olympics; she was an Olympics Ambassador; see two items below from wiki:
* “Charity Ambassador of Love” for Shanghai 2007 Special Olympics Games[11]
In August 2007, Ho was conferred the title of “Charity Ambassador of Love” for Shanghai 2007 Special Olympics Games. Together with China’s pop singer Sun Nan, Ho performed the official theme song at the Special Olympics Charity Gala and recorded a music video for the song too.
* “Music Ambassador for the 2008 Olympic Songfest”[12]
On June 11, 2007, Ho was named Music Ambassador of Olympic Songfest for the Beijing 2008 Olympics Games by the Beijing Organization Committee for the Games of the XXIX Olympiad at a ceremony held in Beijing Jiaotong University. Her role as the ambassador involves inspiring university students all over China to write songs for the 2008 Olympics Games.
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He meant that the truth will continue to unfold?
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http://sg.yfittopostblog.com/2010/06/20/pastors-wife-lives-lavishly-in-l-a/
This is how Singer PAstor Wife lives her life so extravagantly!!!!! CHC donors are taken for a ride. Did pastor Kong mentioned how good his wife’s living out a hollywood dream in church?
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Fake Christian pastor trying to cheat genuine christians of their compassion and money. Stop his crap!
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Amazing how most of you willing do give opinions and judgements without facts. Role reversal – how will it feel to be judged the same way you have judged ?
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Twisted logic:
June 20, 2010 at 9.53pm
Can see you are so full of HATE. That’s punishment enough. No need to waste any more time on a real pathetic loser like you. Please la, why so no class need to show everyone you like to suck MIW dicks and lick their ass? Stupid people like you so common like wild grass outside. Enjoy your brown color cream ice cream. Haha.
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sun ho music or not? How come my american friends never heard of her?
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not really Olympics lah – Special Olympics right?
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ahhh yaaa Lim Pei Say Swee Swee, nobody Hating anybody lah. Charity should take money and just use it to help people, cause the money is not really their’s to begin with. Taking it and going to invest, what happen if kena bad investment or kena conned and lose everything. investment is not 100%. If it’s your $$
you have all the right to take the risk. But when $$ given as charity, it should be used for charity. SIMPLE
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It is the challenge between the God of Kong Hee and the Gods of the PAP. Who will win will decide whose God is mightier!
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Everybody will say having a plan to spend charity money is like bearing the thoughts of evil.
What i learn from CHC people is that they have a “strategic” plan to use “God’s” money and it benefits the majority of the people who have contributed their money. Learning to put your money where it’s most “important” doesn’t sound wrong to me.
And with 33000 church people I can’t see why not one of them have checked the background of this pastor? How many house he has? C’mon, we are in the age of internet(lol). So i presume the CHC people knows how rich their pastor is. So it comes to a question, “Is there a fault in the general public perception? ”
To me the more possible thing that is happening here is more like curbing of a religion. See what’s happening to Israel? Surrounded by Muslim nations?
Also, I think our government is smart, they musn’t allow religion to be become the mainstream of a society, this means they lose the loyalty of their “beloved” citizens.
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Anyway do know what’s a tithe and what’s a donation. (At least from wikipedia). It will bring u new thinking.
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There are still something that amazed me.. What has religion to do with investment? Isn’t religion supposed to be pure? Only god know the truth..i hope these people will be punish before they move elsewhere. I guess if one believes in god, its all in your heart, god don’t need believer’s money!!
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i look at the message differently.
its like a warning, like:-
unfold the truth and we shell perish together…
my truth our tomb
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We Christians must search our hearts. Follow Christ, not men.
See: Matthew 7:15-23 / Matthew 23:1-12
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Christ-consciousness is divine lah, kindness in motion is divine, love in motion is divine and love n compassion in motion is poetry and embraces all of humanity presupposing the one who profess religion is walking the talk.
Does it seem so with many preists, pastors, religious leaders or whatever they call themselves?
Otherwise it is poison and deadly one lor. Antidote – Intelligence lah (not knowledge n intellect). The latter always pretends wisdom.
A religious one never gives u beleifs, never gives u scriptures his presence and his being suffices lah. What he/she is being eg being kind, being compassionate being considerate or ….
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Shame on all City Harvest Church members. Almighty God has called you to explain and defend the gospel with love, to as many as who want to hear,NOT to defend the sleazy, sexy, seductive dance-singing career of Sun Ho and her lifestyle. Come On wake up. Its wrong of the pastor to use God’s people, ministry and twisted reasonings to justify what his wife is doing. The good that they do, does not delete the wrongs they are doing. That’s not the gospel.
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Fugazzi:
June 21, 2010 at 2:13 pm
ya,Fugazzi,GOD IS!
being is! being is believing and believing is BEING.
HAVE A NICE DAY!
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LIONS ROAR:
My stance is that ”God” cannot be explained away with scriptures alone (which in turn becomes a belief, one relies on it, it is acquired from the PAST), it is only alive for eg, when one is being kind or for eg one is being loving – that is god manifesting thru that person being kind. Hence, the fragrance of one’s kindness,eg., being kind is godliness!
My holding a book does not mean I m reading it. To equate it as reading is neurosis. The actual process of reading is the real thing (the process).
Of course, you are free to ignore or lump it if it does not resonate of you or with you.
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Fugazzi,that’s exactly right!
My stance is that ”God” cannot be explained away with scriptures alone (which in turn becomes a belief.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
that’s why i concurred with your views of “being”.
being compassionate is Christlike as is ‘Buddha-like’,not mere reading of volumes of scriptures but living the teachings therein.
and,therefore,i said ‘believing is being’.
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LIONS ROAR & FUGAZZI and all who seek PEACE
CHRIST & BUDDHA thoughts are similar and yet differ,One claims DIVINITY and taught LOVE & KINDNESS.The OTHER taught and seek the WAY towards NIRVANA through the path of LOVE & KINDNESS.
JUST follow their teachings and path and you will seek what many sought but seldom found and should you find it than “PEACE BE WITH YOU” for there is nothing more for you to SEEK
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When one is aliented/disconnected from oneself (one’s being) one can never find peace or find ‘God” in a temple, church or mosque – it is a fruitless chase akin to a dog chasing its tail lah.
When the seeker and the seeking is synthesized to an existential experience one is simply a personfication of what one is being – eg. kindness, lovingness. There was never a need to find it is buried under a Himalayan of beliefs, rituals, conditioning and … it awaits recognition. Till then, one can seek and search – it is an exercise in futility lah
Juggling semantics is commendable but it does not detract from what is.
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21/6/10
Pastor Kong is very similar like the former Catholic priest, former Buddhist monk who was found guilty (also similar like the former NKF chief Durai) ie in the early stage very arrogant and firmly believing that he is above the Rule of Law (woh having 33,000 members and I am sure many are Elites of the PAP and opposition members). We have been always reminded that in Singapore, no one is above the Rule of Law and I am pretty sure Pastor Kong will end up with similar fate like these religious leaders who have been successfully convincted by our court of law via the Rule of Law process
Regards
Andrew Chuah
Ordinary Singaporean
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We search for TRUTH but alas,it is TRUTH which finds us.
It really doesn’t matter if one were a christian,a buddhist,or a taoist if one was on the side of Truth and goodness.
In the end,it is really about being a good christian or a good buddhist or a good taoist.
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ADAMONE:
June 21, 2010 at 5:47 pm
PEACE TO YOU TOO.
like mother teresa said GOD IS LOVE and it’s really about love in actions.
regards.
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Dr. Goh Keng Swee’s epitaph and simple but complex life speak well of one knowing oneself.
We try to be perfect beings but alas we are like a dog chasing one’s tail as mentioned by “Fugazzi”
Retiring and seeking peace with love & kindness for one and all around and knowing you have more than necessary leave you at PEACE with the world.GKS stop chasing his tail at 65 and live a “Blissful” life till 90 before meeting with his “MAKER”
May our leaders present and future seek this same path to make Singapore a better place regardless……….
And to you LIONS ROAR “My Peace I give To You”
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Lim Pei Say Swee Swee:
June 21, 2010 at 12:43 am
Actually I am full of joy. Joy that I have the wisdom not to be in your pathetic shoes.
Yet at the same time, there is sadness. Sadness that 33,000 morons like you continues to be in a state of delusion and get suckered by KH and company, and blindly worshipping a goddess who probably not gives you a hoot but goes on with the act as long as she gets her lifestyle.
And also at the same time, I feel the hunger for those who are hungry. $28,000 a month can feed a lot of poor people.
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Lim Pei Say Swee Swee:
June 21, 2010 at 12:43 am
I like some of the brown color cream ice cream.
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It is a person values that is important, not which church, temple or mosque he goes to. Money is the root of all evils. God had never ask for a big buildings before and never before to give till you cry or give at other people expense where that peron had to experience hardship. Going to expo or going to a tradition church is also the same. but over the years, these so call satan start this Christian evangelist to attract the youngest, all things gone wrong. If fact they are the BIGGEST SATAN. The 33000 members are just directionless sheeps that was easily brainwash. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker
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Comment on June 21, 2010 at 10.25 pm is not posted by me.
Hope I have cleared the air.
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Faith doesn’t require multi-million dollar buildings and big budgets.
A church is not a building but any gathering of believers who sincerely want to follow the example set by Jesus in their own lives – throughout their lives (imperfect as we all are).
Gathering together to worship can be even in a small room. Jesus said, “for where 2 or 3 are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them”. In fact, congregations should resist the temptation of “growing big”. Growth should be a spreading out to form other small groups of believers.
Any collecting of money is meant to help the less fortunate, the poor, to help fellow believers who are going through hard times. In the end, faith is about about trusting in God and His love through Christ – to be humble in good times and to be grateful still in bad times. The practical application of faith is kindness, truthfulness, gentleness towards others.
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As a Christian I will obey God’s word and pray for those in authority. It doesn’t matter what my opinion is. God is the judge of all things. I know that His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts.
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Kong Hee talks a lot of cock and his congregation hears a lot of cock. After some time they are talking a load of cock. Just hear the trash coming out defending him and the venom used to attack his critics. Even school children will die for him now. What a waste of space he is.
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As a Christian I will obey God’s word and pray for those in authority. It doesn’t matter what my opinion is. God is the judge of all things. I know that His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts.
It doesn’t mean that everyone in high position is given ‘HIS’ authority. Was it not said “Do not use the LORD’s name in vain” People should not glorify their personal achievements. Indeed, they must repent, and indeed they will be humbled so that they will be reborn again.
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It is not known who lodged the police report. There are MPs in City Harvest. Media in Singapore is controlled by government. Elections are coming up next year. Knowing Mr.LKY, he’s probably making sure that PAP will get the most amount voters. Imagine an opposition coming from CHC would have a 33,000-strong support immediately. The church is also growing so probably around next year it would be 40,000 people. PAP is obviously scared of a strong opposition.
Not defending or attacking CHC. Just stating that PAP is acting like a communistic party.
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There is a difference between judging and discerning. To judge is to arrogate God’s prerogative in deciding a person’s eternal destiny. No one can or should ever do that. But to discern is a necessity in life, nor is it against Christian teachings. See 2 Timothy 3:16. The goal of discerning is not to judge but to do the right thing – be it to self-correct or to rebuke (with gentleness). And after all this, repentance and forgiveness are integral.
By definition, a Christian is one who believes in Christ and follows/obeys His teachings. Christ taught, “you are not to be called ‘teacher’, for you have one Teacher, the Christ. The greatest among you will be your servant.” See Matthew 28:10-11.
Those called to shepherd other believers or have put themselves in the position to do so, are there to serve, not to be served. That is why they are called “pastors” (shepherds) and “ministers” (servants).
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@ Xiao Hua:
June 22, 2010 at 12:46 pm
WOSH!!!! I salute you! You have true faith in your religion.
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So far quotes about her credibility and what she has done for Beijing Olympics, etc. are all based on wikipedia. Let us not take wikipedia as the gospel truth as it is freely written and edited by internet surfers. Wikipedia is never a credible source for information and affirmation. Anything written in wikipedia, if its intention is to cheat and lie, will be bloated, misleading and full of leading assumptions.
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well i think everyone who started up any charity association had the hearts in helping others and the God, but as times goes by people start to forget thier original purpose of setting up these charity association. We as a follower had to think and be alert of activities being done by each charity assocaition. God will never be wrong, human are the ones to be blame. No matter how great the god is, human error will occur but this error can be minimise when we keep remind ourseleves the purpose of charity.God does not want to be poor, but god discourage us to be selfish. We should help others just like Mother teresa… she spent all her money and time on helping the poor. I think this is what all charity assocaition should follow.
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Xiao Hua’s definition of “judging” ia absolutely correct. But we Christians tend to use this word loosely and call those who disagree with us “judgemental”. Even Pastors teach their flock this way. As a result most Christians keep their mouths shut when they see something wrong or practices which are against Jesus teaching. We perpetuate own own problems to such an extent that even pastors or their spouses can get away with lavish lifestyle. Why do we see mega churches? Because they only preach “good news” and make you “feel good”. Our
walk with Christ has been desensitized by all the “feeling good” weekly massage given from the pulpit.
massage
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@Xiao Hua:
If you can handle the truth, you will know that the lust for money has a long histry of defeating the Church. It started out in 30 A.D.
Can you give a reason?
…”There is a difference between judging and discerning. To judge is to arrogate God’s prerogative in deciding a person’s eternal destiny. No one can or should ever do that…”….I heard this…the same reason used by confidants for not to dig into the wrong doings of a pastor.
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Hi “baptised for 41 yrs”
Actually, I was clarifying that Christians must differentiate between right and wrong actions. We are taught not to condemn people but we cannot condone wrong-doing.
I agree with you that there is long history of greed in Christianity. Lust for money is in fact unChristian because the Bible speaks clearly against it. Hope that clarifies.
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@Bishan Park:
June 20, 2010 at 2:38 pm
I give $100 to you and in return I shall be getting 30 folds, 60 folds and 100 folds for my return.
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When there is a promise or expectation of return for giving, it is no longer charity. So you give $100 and expect 30-, 60-, 100-folds return. Isn’t this the same as 4D, Toto, World Cup bets? In fact, these gamblers are more sincere than CHC congregation because they are upfront about returns unlike the pretentious CHC congregation ‘donating’ in the name of God, charity blah, blah!
CHC has been exhorting its congregation to give until tears roll down their cheeks, downgrade their flats, don’t treat Jesus like a waiter, blah, blah. These are cleverly crafted statements meant to induce the flocks to enrich the shepherds (pastors). Given that the congregation are sheep, what can you expect them to do? Become lions? Whistle-blowers? Fat hope! Many are blinder than the blind when they cannot see the true colours of Kong Hee’s Mercedes, Orchard Rd condo and of course the bank accounts!
Let’s put it this way: the congregation is very much in ‘cahoot’ with their leaders. Driven by greed, selfishness and materialism, they think they are doing ‘good’. And it is this thought that is actually their faith – blind faith.
In Buddhism you learn about the concepts of ‘ignorance’, ‘delusions’, ‘cravings’, ‘attachment’, ‘sensual pleasure’, ‘greed’, ‘self’, ‘wrong thoughts’. These are the very defilements that CHC members possessed. And Christians conveniently attributed them to the devils!
If you believe there is a Creator-god, ‘omni’ in every aspects, it just don’t make sense the super-being needs his creatures to do any kind of work for him or in his name. And charlatans like Kong Hee will take advantage of these ignorant and blind sheep whose unwavering faith in God is the very reason why Kong Hee and others can continue to hold sway over them.
That’s why the story of CHC will not end and will continue to unfold ……
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Me had a good laugh when i read the “give until tears roll…hearts broke”….isn’t it in hokkien they say…”hor ka kio tor long”.This type of people also can?
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Xiao Hua:
June 28, 2010 at 9:48 am
Hi “baptised for 41 yrs”
“…. Christians must differentiate between right and wrong actions. We are taught not to condemn people but we cannot condone wrong-doing. ”
Then how do you reconcile that with the xtains believe that all non belivers go to hell?
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The Abrahamic faiths (Judaism, Catholics, Christianity and Islam) have something in common – each have their Own One and Only Omni God who is the Creator of the Universe and Decider of human fate. Therefore, if you are non-believer – you go to hell simply because they don’t want you to be in ‘their’ heaven. For them, whatever wrong they do is no problem or hindrance to getting to heaven. Just simply believe or confess, and all is forgiven and poof! they are next to God!!
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historically, terrible things have been committed against humanity in the name of religion. Welcome to the club, Kong Hee, which I am not definitely not in. stinks like shit.
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To: Unlike Christ:
July 5, 2010 at 11:22 pm
Not everyone who accepts Christ as Saviour can automatically enter the Kingdom of GOD, they still need to do GOD’s Will.
Please read the following verse, the conjecture is that even if you acknowledge Christ as Lord, you are not necessarily going to enter GOD’s Kingdom.
Matthew 7:21 (Whole Chapter)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
KR
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Hi “hell angel” & “unlike Christ”:
Personally, I don’t think it is as clear-cut as that. In any case, the point is this – only God can decide.
For myself, I dare not make any claim that I will definitely “get into heaven”.
All I have is a hope in God’s grace and mercy. Having accepted that grace, I must choose to live in a way that’s accountable to God. Fundamentally, that means to love God and to have compassion for others. If I do not live in such a manner – with compassion for others in submission to God, then how can I claim to believe?
And so, if I do not make it “in”, it would be because I never truly believed and never followed the life example of Christ.
Are there “believers” who may not make it? The Bible say “yes!” – and points to “wolves in sheep clothing”, those who fake the faith in order to deceive others; those who continue to choose evil and sinfulness.
That’s why Christians are told to examine themselves – to see if they are still really in the faith – to ask: “does my life reflect my faith in Christ?”
In that sense, no Christian should be smug.
But when it comes to others (believers & non-believers), I will hold out the hope that many will still “make it”. Of course, I cannot prove or give a guarantee – no human being can. But I hold out that hope. It is only a hope, but it is a good hope based on faith in a loving, gracious God. I believe no one whom God judges as deserving of grace will be denied His grace.
Of course if a person doesn’t believe in God at all, then all this is just “pointless” talk. The person who rejects God may then have a tough time answering – if after death, he wakes up to find that God exist. This is a burden and problem all atheists face.
The key question an atheist need to ask himself is not “Does God exist?”. The key question is this: “Why do I choose to not believe? What is the reason behind my rejection of God?”.
Finally, faith is not just about “getting into heaven”. It is also about living this very short life in a way that is at peace with God, with others and ourselves; living in a way that we are meant to live – with hope, with faith, with love – even though we can only do so imperfectly.
The above are just my personal and subjective views based on my reading of the Bible. There is every possibility that I may have misinterpreted – either in part or on the whole. The views should not be taken to represent that of my fellow believers as such.
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@Xiao Hua:
July 6, 2010 at 1:50 pm
The key question an atheist need to ask himself is not “Does God exist?”. The key question is this: “Why do I choose to not believe? What is the reason behind my rejection of God?”.
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The definitive key question before believing in God is whether God exist! For the theists, they believed God exists, for the atheists, it is the opposite. Therefore, it is ludicrous to ask the atheists why they choose not to believe and the reasons! Surely, they have very very good reasons. In the same manner, it can be ask of the theists why they believe and the reasons. And they will go to the end of the world to prove God exists.
Mankind has been asking this perennial question – “Does God exist?” for a long long time. If there TRULY is a definitive answer, the issue will be settled once and for all. There won’t be any more arguments over the existence of God!
And that is the reason why Buddha discouraged his followers from such speculative arguments. Whether the world was created by a god or not makes little difference to the Buddhists. And searching for the First Cause is redundant because there will be a First Cause to First Cause!
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Hi “Unlike Christ”,
First, thanks for your thoughts.
I agree with you that a question like “Does God exist?” is speculative and will engender only speculative arguments. As far as I’m aware, it is a question that can never be answered to everyone’s satisfaction.
Given this, the atheist’s position is as much one made in faith – in that he has faith in his non-faith. Put another way, the atheist BELIEVES that God does not exist even though he cannot prove it.
The theist’s position is slightly less tenuous. While he cannot prove the existence of God, he needs only to point out that there is existence and there is life, and something must have led to all this. He attributes it to a Creator. And the question of “who then created the Creator” is not a philosophical conundrum for him because by definition, the First Cause is eternal and not bound by our concept of time, cause and effect.
One way to avoid this question “Does God exist?” is to sit on the fence – and I think basically that’s what agnostics do.
If I may, allow me to rephrase as follows:
- for the moment, let us substitute the word “God” with say the Chinese word “天” (tian)- loosely translated to Heaven / Cosmos / Governing Force;
- let us also not speculate about 天 but limit our discussion on it to the simple reality that 天 is not against life (for if it were, there would be no life and we would not be having this discussion).
The re-phrased question then is this: “Given that 天 affirms life – do I choose to affirm life or to bargain / fudge the issue?”
If I still choose to fudge the issue – then why? Is it because I do not wish to be held accountable to a higher moral order?
To sum up, for me it’s about choosing to exercise compassion – to help others, to do good in life. A person who does that is, for me, a person who believes in goodness. He has in fact chosen God.
p.s. I think we have deviated too much from the original topic in this post.
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To Xiao Hua,
Existence includes all matter: living and non-living. Believers of Creator-God believe that everything is created. Then it beg this never-satisfactorily answered question “Who created Creator-God?” By not answering this question and giving all sorts of reason is the very FLAW of this belief. Simply stated, if you believe in Creation, then Creator-God has to be created! There cannot be any exception.
If Creator-God can just be there without a first cause, why not every other matter – earth, sun, energy, force, animals, insects, human, etc.?
Do not confuse spiritual qualities like compassion, love, generosity with the existence of God. These qualities are ‘attributed’ to God by men. In fact, there are even more superlatives attributes!
Also, it is mistaken notion that one who does good has chosen God. Many atheists do good if not better than theists. One thing for sure, atheists don’t do evil in the guise of ‘goodness’ and in the name of loving God! If you look at the World Corruption Index, the most corrupted nations are those with a majority ‘national’ faith.
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Hi “Unlike Christ”,
I believe I have tried to address many of the points you’ve raised in earlier posts and I shall refrain from repeating and belaboring the points.
My intent in all postings is simply to say that the Christian faith teaches its followers to do good (e.g. love, kindness, gentleness, forgiveness, truthfulness, selflessness, humility etc) and to reject evil (e.g. wickedness, malice, greed, pride, deceit etc).
There are many Christians who truly try to live that way and they are good and decent people.
Those who choose and practice evil cannot claim to be Christians (and this is clearly stated again and again in the Bible).
I hope people will differentiate between those who are the true sheep of Christ and those who are “wolves in sheep’s clothing”.
As said, I respect your decision to not believe. With regards…
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Xiao Hua:
July 7, 2010 at 11:16 am
You speaks well and I agree majority of your points. But mixing such debate and abuse such faith, believe god or not, and collect money at the same time, mixing charity with religion is not acceptable by public.
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From HDB to Luxury Condo/bungalow in LA and then to Changi Prison.
Rags to riches to rags story for these 2 pathetic sods who cheat the 33,000 idiots in CHC. These Rip Van Wankers will soon wake up from their 20 year dream seeing their pockets emptied and the world laughing at them.
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Hi “Good discussion…”
Fully agree with you that religion/faith should not be about money.
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