TR EMERITUS

Its about time DAFT Sinkaporeans teaches their Ivory Tower OVERPAID MIllisters how to say SORRY when its due.

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I am AGAINST this petition. VV and TSL are supposed to be ministers that bring the new generation of Singaporeans over to the PAP.

If the petition gathers massive suppport, they might just be asked to go to prevent futher damage to the PAP.

The optimal opposition strategy is to keep them where they are. This way everytime they show show their face, every Singaporean youth from 12 to 18 today can remember just how they were treated for the YOG.

The damage of VV and TSL clinging on in the PAP is infinitely greater than if they were to apologise and leave the PAP.

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Why demand he apologize for? Why not start a petition demanding that weewee ballslesscrushednuts & toad shit luck be impeached for incompetency and forward it to lhl instead? Of course we know it’s pointless since lhl will just ignore it, but then again so will demanding an apology, and at least a petition will let Mr. never-around know just how sick people are of the incompetence of these 2 dumbasses.

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YOU’LL DROWN PAP DEEPER N FASTER INTO THE OCEAN. GET IT? JIALUCK LIAO…APOLOGISE OSO DIE, DUN APOLOGISE OSO DIE….WHT TO DO?

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To aurvandil and Darth Vader,

I read your posts here with great interest. (Aside: Darth Vader, you haven’t replied to me on the Kuo Chuan Pri School thread/forum)

Can we look beyond the YOG just for a short while and ask ourselves what is it we want and why we want it.

If we demand that Dr Vivian apologises, the outcome would be
(a) he apologises, PAP understands that they are under pressure if they do not do a good job, we can hope that they do a better job, foreigners can see that our ministers are held accountable, everyone is happy
(b) he does not apologise, there is more public resentment, fewer votes for PAP, in the long run unless we have the “competent” complain kings here to run the country, foreign investors lose confidence in us, it does nobody any good, so I think demanding an apology is not so bad a move.

When I see this “The damage of VV and TSL clinging on in the PAP is infinitely greater”, my first question is what do I have to gain from this? How do Singaporeans benefit or get a better life from this?

Yes, I’m no fan of PAP, but I will say that I’d rather vote for them than to cast a null vote or vote for opposition because we need to see what are our interests in the long run.

Elsewhere in some other thread, someone complained about kiasu Singaporeans concerned about their salaries and “upgrading” of their lives. I am not saying that this is a noble aim in life, but what is wrong with wanting to bring food back to my family?

My logic and reasoning is simple:
He who has a solution to the problems we face, don’t complain and go do it. If you can’t do it, scream and shout out loud your solutions/suggestions so taht everyone can hear it.

I don’t have a solution how to bridge the income gap or feed the poor. I don’t have a solution to the country’s defence without NS or the defence budget.

If we are stirring up political unrest like the Red Shirts in Thailand, like rebels without a cause, then we need to stop.

We all want to bring food to the table. We all want a safe country and we want investors to believe in us and bring money in.

But let us not be moaners and whiners and address the issues and help ourselves. I am happy to see constructive comments or suggestions like giving $20 to volunteers, subsidise transport costs, subsidise housing costs etc.

It does no one any good to address the person/party instead of the issue.

I strongly urge all TR writers and readers to ask ourselves what is it that we want, and how that would benefit all of us.

Overthrow PAP? Cool — if and only if the next party does a better job.

Vote against PAP? Cool too! They don’t need to lose; perhaps just a wake-up call that they need to be on their toes since our citizens are now not politically apathetic and would keep a record of their failures and successes (I hope).

Vote for PAP? Cool too, but they MUST know their blunders, they MUST apologise where things go wrong, they MUST be answerable and accountable for things gone wrong.

Ultimately, regardless of what we choose, we need rational thinking and clear reasoning, and not just emotional tirades from our anger and frustration.

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Hi Vivian, just apologise like a REAL MAN who has balls.

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@sin:
August 21, 2010 at 9:29 am

I WILL GATECRASH YOUR PARTY – INVITED BY YOU AND I AM DISGUSTED.

Your comments in quote below justify an INFORMED response.

“we need to see what are our interests in the long run…………I strongly urge all TR writers and readers to ask ourselves what is it that we want, and how that would benefit all of us.

In the long run, I DON’T WANT UNDERGROUND LIVING, UNDERGROUND DEEP TUNNELING TRANSPORT SYSTEMS AND I DON’T WANT NUCLEAR POWER OPTION ON THIS ISLAND BECAUSE OF THE PRESSURES OF OVER-POPULATION FROM MASS MIGRATIION INFLUX.

If you know basic geology, you know that drilling a 6 inches diameter only well into geological rocks formation compacted for billions of year can caused a cave-in. Here is the proof.

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20100104/pdf/31n11pm90fp4rh.pdf

And if you still prefers to live in the Stone Age cave of disbelief of geological proof, why don’t you ask yourself, have they discovered the reason og geology when Nichol Highway collapse like a 500 lb bomb exploded?

I don’t see in any densely populated clusters – be it Beijing, Shanghai, Chongging, Tianjing, New York, London, Cairo, Sydney, Rio de Janiero, Lago, Paris etc have nuclear power station cited in the hearts of these cities. MML said – one accident, it is the end of Singapore as a civilisation. Chernobyl radiation leak means that 40 kilometres RADIUS (not diamenter) is uninhabitable for another 200 years at least. They found boars in Germany radio-active, not edible even now from Chernobyl.

All you need is a 9 plus Ritcher scale earthquake in Sumatra and or a nuclear operational mistake or both will see the end of your life and all your children.

HOW NICE AND RATIONAL OF LONG RUN INTEREST YOU MUST BE THINKING OF YOUR DECLARED VOTE PREFERENCE HERE AND LECTURING THE REST OF US.

I am sure Darth Vader, aurvandil and all other TR readers here will be happy with ONE LESS OF YOUR KIND. I am blunt BUT BLUNTLY HONEST.

We love Singapore, not those who love money and today only.

Got my message on Long-term or long run interest and the politics of incompetence – ignoring the screwed up economic management over the last 45 years for now?

You like to debate me here on geology and nuclear power’s future, sin?

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@sin:
August 21, 2010 at 9:29 am

READ ALL THE COMMENTS OF ‘FAIRPLAYPLEASE” ON PRACTICAL GEOLOGY AND THE REBUTTALS OF OTHERS IN THIS TEMASEK REVIEW THREAD GIVEN IN THE WEBLINK BELOW.

http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/01/01/where-is-my-country-going/

You have only started reading TR in the last two days and made judgments on TR readers.

I REGARD YOU AS VIRGIN OF KNOWLEDGE, and until you can prove otherwise of geological evidence, I stand firm that you are patently WRONG (AND ABSOLUTELY IGNORANT OF GEOLOGY AND HOW THAT COULD DESTROY SINGAPORE) to lecture and command other’s compliance of your position.

I am NOT wrong that even as a teacher, you got a LONG LONG LONG WAY to learn, lady.

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sin

Since you are voting for the PAP and I am against the petition, doesn’t that put us on the same side? Or are you saying that true PAP supporters should demand VV/TSL apologise and possibly kick them out of the PAP?

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Can TR make a list that indicate the priority of ministers that should go ?

Eg : WKS for Mas Salamat Case, trespassing MRT depot
YI for Orchard Flooding
VB for hosting YOG below expectation
KS for making prejudicial statement on MDP appeal
LKY for insulting native singaporeans
RL for making excuses to justify fare hikes
MBT for allowing property prices to skyrocket and claim he was caught “off-guarded”
LHL for allowing 100,000 more foreigners to enter the country and put further strain on infrastructure, job market
LSS for making absurd comment “better, betterer and betterest”
GCT for promising Swiss standard of living for singaporean which never materialise
TCH for sleeping in Parliament
TS for inadequate oversight of Finance Ministry on banks’ practice of selling risky investment products
GKY for the poor living conditions for most cheap foreign labor
KBW for introducing means-testing for health care and suggesting aged singaporeans to be put in nursing homes in JB
NEH for making “U-turn” on weightage mother-tongue language
GY for failure of Foreign Affairs Ministry to bring Romanian diplomat back to singapore for trial on death caused by reckless driving

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tO: anonymous: August 21, 2010 at 10:36 am

Although i don’t know who “sin” is, i read your post to “sin” and i do not understand why personal insults are used on “sin”. Name calling, personal insults, vulgarities, are some of the most base and underhand means to undermine a position taken by anyone.

I think that TR’s greatest failure is its tolerance for such kind of tactics which are very detrimental to young minds. The quality of oppostion can never be improved with this kind of tactics. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE INTELLIGENCE OF THE ELECTORATE.

zero

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@ zero:
August 21, 2010 at 11:06 am

And what “vulgarities” did I lash on “sin” on this thread which is his or her moniker of proper address?

Or is that your usual personal attack of those who disagree with you, as usual?

SHOW US ALL PLEASE. I AM WAITING – impatiently.

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To zero,
1) Approval does mean the superior will take responsibility for any mistakes of the subordinate. Isn’t this the SOP in Singapore with regards to any error made by the government as in the case of Mat Selamat?
2) I agree with zero to a very small degree – TR should highlight and congratulate the Singaporean athletes in more of their articles, while highlighting the many errors made by the organizers, which in this case are the Ministries and the relevant GLCs.
3) How is being anti-YOG = anti-Singapore? Do you mean that YOG is an executive or judicial Singaporean institution? Or that being anti-YOG is a treasonous crime that would benefit another country?
4) It is a sweeping statement to say that TAXI-drivers et al. are benefiting as well. SFI is benefiting, but how much of the budget trickles down to the delivery men etc who are paid monthly, not by the trips remain to be seen.

How very clever to use such difficult Latin phrases such as “a priori” when it is used to connote a presumption BEFORE proof, not DURING an event. I implore all Singaporeans to put the term “elite” in quotation marks when referring to our current “elite” because it is quite evident these people aren’t very smart or competent. And they have got the gall to call other people “trash”.

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IF VIVIAN BALAKRISHNAN NEVER APOLOGISE FOR BELOW LIE,

U THINK HE WILL APOLOGISE FOR ULTRA BAD PLANNING THAT RESULTED IN WASTAGE/OVER RUN OF $300million OF PUBLIC FUNDS.

Quote-
“If you were a poor person, anywhere on this planet, Singapore is the one place ………,
where you will have food on the table. EVEN IF YOU CAN’T AFFORD IT, WE WILL HAVE MEALS DELIVERED TO YOU.” (VIVIAN BALAKRISHNAN)
http://zh.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/394784?page=1

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@PAP policies that hurt native singaporeans:

Some are quite unreasonable leh

WKS for Mas Salamat Case, trespassing MRT depot (Reasonable to ask him to be held responsible for Mas Selamat. As for MRT depot, they said that the depot is private property of SMRT but why they charge the Swiss for barging into restricted areas?)
YI for Orchard Flooding (Not just Orchard flooded)
VB for hosting YOG below expectation (Nah, I prefer to bomb him with inadequate social safety net. For YOG, I rather question him on why are Singaporeans not consulted when going for the bid. I personally thinks that YOG is not mature enough for worldwide media to cover it, neither is Singapore ready to host this event. Look, the new Kallang stadium has YET to finish even the game had already started.)
KS for making prejudicial statement on MDP appeal (Anyone thinks he had committed the charge “contempt of court”?)
LKY for insulting native singaporeans (He had been doing that for ages. Thankfully, his Singapore can count on these daft, champion grumbler and whatever insult he placed upon Singaporeans)
RL for making excuses to justify fare hikes (He just created a lazier me. I used to walk back home from a MRT station, now that the feeder bus fare is so cheap, I would rather take a bus home.)
MBT for allowing property prices to skyrocket and claim he was caught “off-guarded” (Some idiocy can’t be cure)
LHL for allowing 100,000 more foreigners to enter the country and put further strain on infrastructure, job market (I would rather ask him why is he making a U-turn from Budget 2010?)
LSS for making absurd comment “better, betterer and betterest” (SAF scholar leh, what you expect?)
GCT for promising Swiss standard of living for singaporean which never materialise (A lot of things is not under his control one.)
TCH for sleeping in Parliament (Zzzzzzzz. When what they are debating is none of his business, whether he is asleep or awake is also his own business)
TS for inadequate oversight of Finance Ministry on banks’ practice of selling risky investment products (Ya, he should have more regulations on banks)
GKY for the poor living conditions for most cheap foreign labor (I have a good solution. But I want to ask, do you want to share your HDB block with foreign workers? If yes, my solution is rent out the taken HDB units to foreign workers. If no, please come up with a better solution)
KBW for introducing means-testing for health care and suggesting aged singaporeans to be put in nursing homes in JB (I think he also LL one but at least I know that Singapore is for rich people to retire in peace. For the poor, u still can retire in pieces.)
NEH for making “U-turn” on weightage mother-tongue language (PAP just want to test water on the MTL weightage issue. They see strong opposition, so they postpone their plan, which will be implement sooner or later, for now. Even if the minister in charge of it get ousted, another bugger will just come along and replace him. The personnel changed but the planning doesn’t. So what’s the point?)
GY for failure of Foreign Affairs Ministry to bring Romanian diplomat back to singapore for trial on death caused by reckless driving (That bugger chabol’ed before anything can be done to him, Romanian gahmen won’t release him back to SG and wants to trial him there. SG got no bargaining chip to get that bugger back. This one is LL one)

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Don’t apologies, v v balakilan. Just get out of my elite uncaring face!!!! pui !!! You have gone to the dark side, no way of returning . The people will not trust you anymore, so please continue to rot.

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To the anonymous person without a handle.

If you read my message @11.06am, i said in my first sentence that you made “personal insult” on the person called “sin” who made some objective comments on the lead article. In the next sentence i deliberately did not draw specific to YOUR statements however; I made a general statement that vulgarities and name calling are not good ways to communicate a point. I didn’t say that YOU use any vulgarities nor name calling. My accusation that you made personal insult stem from your single statement accusing “sin” to be “virgin of knowledge”. In means “inexperienced” in a warped implication and if i were “sin” I would feel cheesed off, there is no need to be personal.

IT is not necessary for any poster to comment on any other poster, whether he is a virgin of knowledge, whether he is smart, whether he is stupid, whether he is “lady” (it was your word; you used another slighting terminology in the context of your post), whether he is new to this blog, whether he has a funny name, whether he is a etc. They are all redudandant and bespeaks the poor quality of logical thinking of the writer who habitually behaves thus, and these are legion.

All that is necessary is to comment on “sin”’s message objectively. What you write can then be judge on your own merit. No personal slightings, vulgarities, insults (and this is a general statement) should be allowed if this blog is ever to convince the 66%. I said in antoher thread, TR is chasing after its own tail with the same 34% reading this and supporting each other in its own venom.

Q.E.D.

zero

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To Clement Tan,

You made a comparison of the YOG with Mas Selamat case.
If you were to ask me to sign petition for WongKanSeng to resign, YES i will sign it!
The cases are different.
WKS is responsible for Mas escape. It wasn;t as if WKS asked PM, may i allow Mas to escape and PM said yes. Therefore WKS is irresponsible.

YOG overrun by 3 times, it is very obvious to me that PM MM must have known full well of it, accepted it. Had it not been the case, would VB be still so gungho and so high spirited everyday, had he been given thorough scolding by PM, MM etc? all of them are in this together unlike the Mas Selamat case. There is no comparison.

zero

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I am really amused at some of the postings here lah, especially the budget overruns or what some feel has not been tranparent or sth to the effect.
Has it ever occurred to many here that Temasek Holdings, GIC had lost close to 100 billion dollars and no heads have rolled and in this instance, YOG?
As long as there is this one-party rule, one can go on – who is goining to check, verify or even bother to explain – local media – useless and conniving!
It is the system that is being exploited time and again. Hence, the present ones are not in favour cos it works for them, also who is to know what is actually transpiring.

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Ah Nei, can you stop telling singaporean to support YOG simply because it is a once in a life time experience ! So what if it is a once in a life time ? must experience is it ?

Why not jump off from a 10 storey flat, that will be really a once in a life time experience !

Should we ? Once in a life time experience ! Stupid.

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zero:
August 21, 2010 at 2:37 pm

Who do you think you are to make presumption on someone’s mind that the words “virgin of knowledge” is a personal insult rather than a denial of claims and how that is linked to such wild accusation and insinuation that my post has ANY RELEVANCE TO……”Name calling, personal insults, vulgarities, are some of the most base and underhand means to undermine a position taken by anyone. I think that TR’s greatest failure is its tolerance for such kind of tactics which are very detrimental to young minds.”???????????

Why is it necessary to associate “name calling, vulgarities and underhand means” of your categorisation when IT IS NOW ADMITTED BY YOU TO BE OF NO RELEVANCE TO THIS THREAD. And what you have done is NOT name calling, personal insults and not vulgarities of gutter-level hypocritical conduct claimed decency in so doing?

You are an absolute ARSEHOLE OF THE LOWEST SCUM REPUTE throwing free accusation here against me and TR endlessly when you know it is completely baseless.

A polite term to call a fellow blogger here lady or gentleman by me to your interpretation is a slight or name-calling? So it is more polite to call another blogger in this world a “c*unt” or a “p*ick” like you?

Well, you made it easy for rotten scums like yourself to give you names henceforth. Or maybe, you prefer all here to call you a scum of an absolute arsehole?

WELL THAT SHOULD MAKE YOU VERY HAPPY NOW, right?. YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT OF GUTTER-LEVEL DECENCY HIPPOCRISY!!!!! Stick your angelic morality up your arse.!

Go back to your Stone Age cave, hate monger like you have no place in the blogging world. The rest of us can disagree strongly without KNOWING false accusations.

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To clement tan

winning gold is not important, but the spirit of the athletes in striving for the gold will show up and that is the important thing after all. YOG is a good thing because it spurs the local athletes onwards towards a clear objective, the goal medal. so, even though, YOG is 50% PAP propaganda, we have to remember yog also has good wholesome objectives. To be a pure Yog hater is antiSingaporean because it ignores completely the good things that Yog is capable of doing.

I said “laughing all the way to the bank”, not because of hypothesis. It was reported that the taxi drivers get $500 a DAY from YOG irrespective whether they pick up customers or not. If this doesnt make the Ah Beng taxi driver happy i don;t know what will make him happy. Of course you argue that not all taxi drivers are so lucky and you are right. The point i am saying is that it is awfully wrong for TR to declare that YOG does not benefit Singaporeans. The lucky ones, and there a lot of them of different trades, do laugh all the way to the bank, it is irrelevant even if some laugh more than others. Life is not fair. You have to be realistic,YOG will not benefit EVERYONE equally, but it is wrong to say YOG benefits no one except the PAPpies (this is the stand of some bloggerS and TR too i suspect)

As for the commentators blaming ahtletes, i also made exacly the same point in another post. Nobody blames the athletes, you are right. But to keep on dragging down the YOG when many people have tried to make it work for Singapore’s good, is an indirect way of creating unhappy environment for the athletes to work, which in turn affects their morale. It is the duty of singaproeans not to hamper the morale of our national athletes, even if they don’t like the overbudget matter.

zero

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To auvandil at 3:49 pm

Well the saying goes “silence means consent”. That would explain why MM/PM haven’t come forward to say anything about the VB blowing the budget. It is wise to be silent. If PM says VB is very good, many people will not focus on PM and hammer him; if the PM says VB is an idiot for busting the budget, he would demoralise his prime supporter at this crucial stage. So PAP strategy is just to keep quite. I strongly believe VB has the full support of the old man when the budget was blown four times. They are all in the “game” pardon the pun.

Ditto for other PAP Ministers. There is no point to say anything, let VB be the dirty fellow who get scolded by bloggers. why should the other coward ministers say anything and get involved. They feel happy so long as the old man is happy. Politics is like that. Singapore politics at least.

zero

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sin:
August 21, 2010 at 9:29 am
Your articles make some sense in some aspect but on the other hand; people are being paid millions to do a wonderful job. They should not look to others for solutions. Likewise, if I do not do my job well in the company, either, I resign or the company simply tells me to go. The company is not going to tell my critics, “Shut up, unless you have the solution”. Secondly, there are no lack of talents among Singaporeans these days. Many Singaporeans have seen the world and are well educated. But the kind of gerrymandering and political obstacles that some people have put in place to stay on in power have made the process of people coming forward to serve very difficult. Perhaps, I would quote Mourinho, the great soccer coach, ” They did not park cars or buses but instead, they park aeroplanes and helicopters in front of the goal posts. It is my view, that people should simply serve the people with a great heart, regardless of party and political differences. For this, I salute the late Dr. Goh Keng Swee, Mr. Ong teng Cheong, David Marshall, J.B jeyeratnam and also currently Philip Jeyeratnam, not to mention there are others.

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to opapamama

i’m not trying to defend VB but the overrun of the budget in my opinion is something the Old man knew and forgave. Let’s face it, the budget and how it was spent is being kept like a State Secret. IT is wrong of course. But because it is a secret, we don’t know why, what went wrong, how things got so screwed up. For all you know it may even be possible that VB is the sacrificial lamb. The screw up was done at an even higher level of negotiations. As long as these secrets are not revealed to us, we do not know if VB is the one solely responsible for the miscaluclation!! If we are not happy we should just stop voting for PAP, which is what i’m going to do. But i’m not going around to nitpick and petition for VB to resign. The whole cabinet should resign, not just VB.

zero

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“It was reported that the taxi drivers get $500 a DAY from YOG irrespective whether they pick up customers or not”

I was unaware of this, I thought you meant the increased takings from the (few) tourists. I am not sure whether this is too generous or taxi-drivers can actually make more revenue per day.

“To be a pure Yog hater is antiSingaporean because it ignores completely the good things that Yog is capable of doing.”

It is not up to you Mr Zero to determine what is Singaporean or what is ANTI-Singaporean. It is simply a matter of PERSONAL interest and not of NATIONAL interest to like the YOG or not. It is simply ridiculous to call someone un-Singaporean, much less ANTI-Singaporean because they do not derive any pleasure from an international sporting event or don’t like it.

First time I ever heard people of being accused of being traitors for not supporting an event. At the end of the day, whether the YOG is successful or not, it should be judged objectively, not by people who personally benefited from it financially.

All those empty seats are simply testament to YOG’s “success”. As much as Mr Zero probably wants people to be marched in and held there to show “support” at gunpoint in his version of patriotism, it is simply not going to happen.

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To anonymous,

If you have read my post on the Kuo Chuan Primary saga, my intention is to say what I want for a man I know. Full stop. And second reminder, I am not a lady, so thanks. Thirdly, you will have your dream fulfilled, I won’t stay around too long, because I have better things to do than to listen to people rant about PAP than to, say, post a new opinion thread/forum on what can be done to make Singapore a better place (and have everyone contribute) but instead of so-and-so should resign or die.

You wrote:
In the long run, I DON’T WANT UNDERGROUND LIVING, UNDERGROUND DEEP TUNNELING TRANSPORT SYSTEMS AND I DON’T WANT NUCLEAR POWER OPTION ON THIS ISLAND BECAUSE OF THE PRESSURES OF OVER-POPULATION FROM MASS MIGRATIION INFLUX.

and

You like to debate me here on geology and nuclear power’s future, sin?

My reply:
Did I say in anywhere I want nuclear power option?

Then you write this:

HOW NICE AND RATIONAL OF LONG RUN INTEREST YOU MUST BE THINKING OF YOUR DECLARED VOTE PREFERENCE HERE AND LECTURING THE REST OF US.

I am sure Darth Vader, aurvandil and all other TR readers here will be happy with ONE LESS OF YOUR KIND. I am blunt BUT BLUNTLY HONEST.

My reply:

I am not lecturing “the rest of us”. I am lecturing “some of us”. For instance, in you ropinion, how does this contribute to any useful dialogue, to paraphrase you, “in the interest of the public”?

“KNN! So your kid still volunteering?!? Hey, don’t blame anybody if he/she really kenna food poisoning or kenna knocked down by YOG bus or by collapsing tent poles. … …I read the whole letter and it stinks of the kiasu & kiasu — want to get your goodies but don’t want to really stand up for your beliefs. Were you & your kid not happy in the first place for this YOG “volunteering”? Then why did your kid go? Scared no CCA point ah?! Scared no testimonial to get into RJC or HCI ah?!? F*ck you lah!”

Why do we need a moderator when we can have “F*ck you lah!”??? Can TR explain to me? What else is there to moderate? Porn links? Then according to your argument, porn is also very real in the world what, right? Moderate what??????? Terrorism also very real, religious funamentalism also very real…

So thanks to people like you and above writers, your wish shall be granted. I don’t hink I want to stay around when people are not really having the interest of the public at heart when they claim to be.

Or maybe you can enlighten me how complaining about NS, and yet not offering any suggestion to the problem of national defence, makes this dialogue useful.

Then you wrote this:

I REGARD YOU AS VIRGIN OF KNOWLEDGE, and until you can prove otherwise of geological evidence, I stand firm that you are patently WRONG (AND ABSOLUTELY IGNORANT OF GEOLOGY AND HOW THAT COULD DESTROY SINGAPORE) to lecture and command other’s compliance of your position.

I am NOT wrong that even as a teacher, you got a LONG LONG LONG WAY to learn, lady.

My reply:
Virgin of knowledge of what? Geology? That I agree, but you mean I need to know geology before I can love my country and talk here? Can I politely suggest that you need a module on discourse of argumentation before you tell me I am WRONG to lecture? What kind of silly argument is that, or is that even an argument?

And I DID NOT command other’s compliance of my position (whatever you think my position is). I command others to post only with the interests of the country and public at heart, you hypocrite! All your anger-charged writings and posts only reveal that you are a true-blue PAP hater and anti-establishment freak, not someone who really wants a sincere dialogue.

If you are REALLY so concerned about the interests of the public and the country, I challenge you to start a new opinions thread for all to contribute solutions to the socio-political-economic problems we have.

I have repeated a million times I am not a fan of PAP, and even tried to be friendly.

Then you wrote:

Got my message on Long-term or long run interest and the politics of incompetence – ignoring the screwed up economic management over the last 45 years for now?

My reply:
I had written that (a) I am not going to debate with you on the nuclear energy issue because I never brought that up nor did I disagree with you (b) if you see the problem and has a solution, do scream at the top of your roof for all of us.

ALL I AM SAYING IS THIS:

Unless we have a solution to the economic issues, orthe NS-national-defence issue, or the cost of living/housing issue, you can litter this whole forum with KNN and CCB and what-have-you, the problem will remain and this is NOT CONSTRUCTIVE.

Do you have a problem with that? THIS IS MY ONLY QUESTION TO YOU. I am not even going to ask you to pick up where you left off in the Kuo Chuan saga forum.

Thank you.

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The PAP should fired Vivian and find another person to fill his post.

He is no longer like before who was full of fire and passion to serve.

There are countless numbers of talented Singaporean who are more capable than him. Moreover with S$3 million per year as salary, it won’t be difficult to find a replacement at all.

KR

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sin:
August 21, 2010 at 6:25 pm

WHAT DO THE WORDS….’strongly urge all TR writers and readers” in that sentence ……”I strongly urge all TR writers and readers to ask ourselves what is it that we want..” meant to you.

ALL TR WRITERS AND READERS” IS…”I am lecturing “some of us”. NOW GO AND F*CK YOURSELF, ANOTHER ARSEHOLE.

AND THIS “INNOCENT” COMMENT OF YOURS

“If we are stirring up political unrest like the Red Shirts in Thailand, like rebels without a cause, then we need to stop.”

YOU ARE STIRRING “POLITICAL UNREST LIKE THE RED SHIRTS IN THAILAND”… OR THE REST OF US??? AND LECTURING SOME OF US on political correctness of debate????

GO F*CK YOURSELF OF YOUR HONESTY. Who is really engaged in hate-mongering calling people who disagree with you as necessary “anti-pap and anti-establishment freak”. YOU ARE AN ABSOLUTE F”CKING DICKHEAD to come to that kind of conclusion.

You can vote and bet your arse with anyone you like including the ladyboys of Thailand ( they like your sexy arse!), you think that matters to me one bit? You are that important? You could count for a piece of thick shit, stupid!

For the rest of it, you have a long long long long way to learn, stupid shit, pity your students who learn from such ignorant rodent full of innocent sins.

Now you get it?

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@zero

wow … So VV is the really the hero here. The other PAP ministers are “cowards” hiding and not saying anything. Do these “cowards” include PM and MM?

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Sorry, lah. I’m old person. Better be their slave than a CITIZEN of Singapore. Massive increase of Medisave contribution limit in 2009 and 2010. Still hoping the next round, a small increase cos need the money from the interest earned to supplement my daily bread.

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@ sin:
August 21, 2010 at 8:08 pm

Yeah, good riddance, go and get rid of your roo off the top paddock, rat!

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zero:
August 21, 2010 at 8:33 pm

Knowing much on how our political environment is structured. Would you be kind enough to venture some suggestion on how we can convince the other 66%. Perhaps you may help may be in the case where certain interested players cannot possibly apply for non-existing hawker license when they are not a hawker in order to run their round of visiting residents.

There are plenty of other examples which do not need further mention that generally let us form the impression that they are precisely there for the reason to make it difficult for these interested players to reach the 66%. Of course, these interested players that I am referring are not from the incumbents who as we know can have it easy.

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To TR,

When i wanted to sign the petition, i was directed to a site to make donation. Is it compulsory to make a donation so that the signature will be recorded ?

Why is the amount is US$ only ?

Mod’s note:

Just ignore the ad and go straight to the petition.

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@zero: If you are still around reading this thread, I thank you for contributing your opinions. You may want to continue convincing the 66% from inside the YPAP or REACH forums with your constructive criticisms of our government’s policy.
Meanwhile, allow us readers and contributors in TR to rally the 33% and convince the 66% in our own way.

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To Frodo:

Well, to convince the 66%, the first step is that you have to present yourelf as a creditable and reasonable Force on the side of Reason. You HAVE to practice Moderation even if it means spending time on it and producing less articles. Moderation throws out false propaganda, perverseness, and at the same time promulgates the concept of fairness and justice, these are the ingredients which will draw more of the 66% to read TR. As i said before i believe that most of tR’s readers are 33% people. Occasionally you get a 66% fella. We have to target this 66% people to stay on to read. They’ll do that once if they see TR as fair and balanced. Once they left (as like Sin above), you lost a bit of the battle. Remember the “enemy” is the 66%. That is your target audience. You have to understand you enemy to win them. Your enemy (mostly civil servants who support Govt) are the types who can’t accept vulgarities.

TR and a lot of its readers fail miserably, in my opinion.
They may think they have got the readership. They aim for Quantity, not Quality. And i said before, it is a Closed User Group. The blind feeding the blind in its unreasonableness and silly childish antics. Pappies will laugh their heads off reading these sick comments and childish petitions with sweeping statements “The Yog has no tangible beneifts for Singaporeans”. (the correct word may be no banefits or not proportionate benfits, or no benfits for most singaporeans – that would make TR more creditable).

there is no other way except to present a good image of yourself. Pappies has 66% of decent civil servants, businessmen, etc. who are benefiting from the system and don;t like all these equally unfair comments as in TR. There is no other way except to fight Lies with Truth, not Lies with Lies. Do not underestimate the intelligence of the Electorate.

zero

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no need to apologise la…what ever for??

i just want to know what happened to the money…what it’s spent on, whom it’s paid to, and whether there was a tender for the lowest provider

if we’re using all the public facilities…how they come up with sgd400 million har?

pay to who? or what?

drinks sponsored, apparel sponsored…facilities are existing don’t even have to spend money to build (sports hub not ready remember?)

only got to pay singapore food industries for providing food…and bus drivers for the transport….like that cost sgd400 million issit?

unless we flew in all the atheletes plus their entourage as well? plus provided their entertainment? plus living expenses while here?

were we meant to HOST the games or, sponsor the games?? hmmm…..

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We just want the Government to justify with the break down on how the close to Four Hundred Million Dollars been spent on YOG? Also why MOE purchased YOG’s tickets for the students and ended up with poor response and even have to resell the ticket to the Public?

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Frodo
You are correct. TR knows what it is doing, and everything is well calculated in their own ways. Nevertheless, I am happy that despite my persistent condemnation of their style they still publish my posts; just as those who consistently use vulgar language are also happy that their posts get published too.

But what’s the point? Why is TR spending thousands of dollars to upgrade servers, to increase readership, to allow anybody to say anything? Where is this leading us?

In the calculations of TR, they think that this readership will lead us to the winning of minds of the 66% somehow. They think that Quantity is more important than Quality, so everyting pass through. They think that the 66% mostly civil servants, ladies, etc will read TR and the articles and posts will change their minds. Fat hope under the current arrangements.

In my calculation readership of TR is perhaps mostly the 33% unhappy people, with occasional visits by 66% people the likes of the teacher “sin” in this thread. So if you want to overthrow Pappie you have to sayang this 66% and convince them, you should not have anything to do with “rallying” the 33% who in the first place are already convinced come hell water or fire to throw out PAP.

Quality is more important than Quality. We can’t fight lies with lies, this is something which TR doesnt see. I repeat my point, it is a lie to say “YOG does no benefit to Singaporeans” this is the conclusion of the petition. How myopic and ridiculous, as i said before a certain group of normal ahbengs are laughing their way to the bank bec of yog business.\\\

Now your last two paragraphs are very thought provoking. You suggested that the high society people because they don’t display emotions, can pull wool over the common folk with their rhetorics. I agree with that, but the solution to that is to upgrade ourselves to equally high style and challenge them with truth in diplomatic way. Look at Chee SoonJuan website. He writes very very good articles, polished and refined, and the comments are well moderated. Despite CSJ being an opposition, he has full control of the language and style of the articles and comments. It is a model website for TR and any wannabe antipap movements.

This is the whole point i am trying to express. It is so important to have a quality website and also to know the enemy. 知己知彼，百战百胜. The enemy is the 66% supporters, not the 34%!!

zero

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not sure 66% that support the PAPayas still living or dead since it has been over 5 years.

But the new citizens and PRs(not sure they can vote) definitely will support them and their policy.

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PAP regime has no accountability so MCYS minister, Dr Vivian splurged S$400 million of tax payers hard earned monies and not his own.
He only look after his own selfish interest of getting a medal award and fast promotion to senior minister level by ballooning the YOG budget by more than 3 times and mismanaging the YOG.

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what food “not fit for human consumption” ? ? ? exaggerated to the max lah pls .

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What Singaporeans want is accountability. Our government says we have to peg Ministers’ salaries to the private sector hence, the clear choice to spend tens of millions of dollars for just that as opposed to other priorities. What about pegging accountability to that same level? Which private company’s top executives can continue to to fail to meet KPIs and still be drawing their big fat salaries?

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68 Articles on YOG at TR. How much more screw up coming up under leadership of VB at YOG. VB and his organising committees should apologise.

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@theforgottongeneration:
August 22, 2010 at 5:21 pm

I am sorry you are mistaken.I am not hookwinked. The point I like to stress is, many Sporeans have no guts to vote for the opposition parties. They will complain and make a lot of noise.But when it comes to voting, they freeze. The fear of losing their jobs, promotion, their flats, properties, businesses,etc, etc, etc is still very real to many. I may be wrong, because over the past few years the mindset of the 66.6% of the population may have changed. Many are just frustrated and angry. Let us all hope that the wind of change will come our way this time around. However, the opposition parties must play their part and contest all the wards. This will enable all Sporeans voters the opportunity to cast their votes. No more walkovers please.

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I think this is the ugly truth about SOME Singaporeans. You are NEVER satisfied with the good life that you are leading. In which country do you get good education and medical facilities? Where can you get safe places to stay in away from human-created and naturally-occurring disasters? Yes, the cost of living is expensive but in life you can’t have everything give nothing in return.

Firstly, to start off proper, NOT ALL SINGAPOREANS feel this way. (So what if you have 400 or so people signing it. It may just be the same person signing the petition again and again. Kiasu-ism as we Singaporeans like to label it.) So please DO NOT simply just put “Singaporeans”

Secondly, the issue of public apology. One does not demand a public apology unless one is of a higher position that that of the person who he/she wants the public apology from. The writer, as a teacher, lacks the moral values that have been taught when he/she was in school. And as an educator of our future, I have to say SHAME ON YOU!

Next, lets move on to addressing the issues you’ve brought out shall we?

1. Exceeding the initial YOG budget by more than three times:
Can you actually give the source where you found this information? Is this source reliable? If you took Social Studies and/or History in Secondary School, you’ll know that a reliable source are hard to find. So prove to the many people who are signing this petition that your source is true and reliable. If not, this is NOT AT ALL a valid point.
Moreover, a Singaporean government is very strict with letting this information out to the public. It may or may not be tax payers money. Without proof, I think you are just lying because you THINK the money could have been “better” used i.e. “pleasing” ugly Singaporeans like you.
So if what you say about the budget is true, what happens right? Most of the budget is to help IMPROVE the PUBLIC facilities which Singaporeans CAN use after the end of YOG. In the end, Singaporeans WILL benefit.

2. Failure to engage and consult Singaporeans before bidding for YOG:
Who are you to demand to be consulted before bidding for YOG? We are neither anyone big in the world or even in Singapore. We are just CITIZENS. There is NO NEED to ask for “Citizens Permission” to bid.
How sure are you the Prime Minister made the following comment? Yet again, where is the source that states all of this? You are just shooting WHAT YOU THINK AND FEEL not the honest truth.
If the government who have waited for the people’s response, would you have thought about the boost in Economy that we are getting now? We are in a way benefiting in this whole boost.
Moreover, as a teacher, the writer is a Civil Servant, who gets a bonus which is pretty much very decent. Where did the money come from if not good economy?

3. Lack of enthusiasm and support among Singaporeans for YOG:
Of cause ugly Singaporeans like I’ve mentioned will always have lack in enthusiasm and support for the YOG. The YOG Learning Centre (located at Kay Siang Road) was open to public since Singapore won the bid. Many students have made their way there to learn about YOG and also the history of Olympics.
As students, we were taught to look beyond what is in the textbooks and probe further. Why now, my dear writer, can’t you do the same?
Do a little bit of research to know more about it than just waiting for it to come by. If you give a man a fish, he will have food for a day. If you teach him to fish, he can feed himself for as long as he live.
Again you gave figures without evidence. How am I to believe your comments if it isn’t well supported?

4. Lack of interest and publicity from the international media:
Either you have not enough classes to teach, or you may be one of the most boring teacher in the world that students dread to go to your boring lessons. May I ask, how do you know that YOG isn’t published in other countries? Any foreign newspaper you holding on to? May we all see it?
Yet again, shooting things down without proper reasoning and evidence.

5. Ticketing lapses:
Did the news say ALL THE EVENT tickets are sold out? As far as I’ve read, SOME hot sports have tickets sold out while others are still up for grabs.
Yes, some companies brought tickets BUT there is a quota to how many they can buy. If you are not genuine to watch the YOG, then DON’T take the ticket. DON’T write your name on the boxes to say that you are attending when the companies distribute the tickets.
Moreover, ticket sales for YOG was being put up for a long time. WHY do Singaporeans choose to buy it at the last minute? Because they are kiasu and are in hopes to get lelong prices for the tickets.

6. Forcing students to attend YOG events:
I have family members and friends who are students. And as far as they tell, there was no forcing of students to attend the YOG events.
Most schools had ASKED their students if they were able to attend these YOG games way before the games even started. Those who cannot attend or have other commitments were not forced to attend it. Students, without thinking of long term commitments just wrote their names in the boxes without giving it much thought. Who is to be blamed for this?
The real reason to schools threatening the students is because students have written their names in the boxes and have PLEDGED to attend the games. Schools have promised this number, thus they NEED TO HAVE this number at the stadium. Thus, it is not the school’s fault at all.
And as for the YOG torch rally, in order for the school to carry out any events in school, RAMS (a safety procedure that needs to be done before any major/minor school events) need to be carried out. In RAMS, wet weather programme needs to be included. Thus students, parents or even the writer may have exaggerated the point of students forced to stand under the rain. RAMS put the safety of students first and getting students out of the rain is safety.
If it really did happen, where are the evidences again?

7. Giving YOG volunteers substandard food while treating athletes like kings:
The food was Halal, edible and not a sub-standard one as compared to those of the athletes. What’s there to complain about?
Just because the volunteers DO NOT get the buffet the athletes were given, it is NOT an indicator of substandard meals.
Moreover, I think if the food given to the volunteers were to be given by those Pakistan people who are hit by the flood, they will Praise GOD for giving them food. Some Singaporeans must learn to be thankful for the grain of rice that they are getting instead of just complaining that something is not right about the food.
Volunteers are not appreciated? Are you sure? Show me. I watched the Opening Ceremony and I’ve heard time and again people kept mentioning “Without the 200 000 Volunteers, we could not have done it”. Isn’t that a form of appreciation?
Moreover, free food, free transport, free t-shirt, free badges and free memories that you cannot get unless you experience it yourself. It is more than enough to show the appreciation of the government to the volunteers.
Moreover, volunteers were asked the events that they would like to volunteer their services as well as the position they preferred. No one volunteer can take up more than 1 sport event.
Yes sometimes people get angry at them but its the pros and cons of being a volunteer. We always want the best and we sometimes tend to blame others when we cannot get what we want. But we are apologetic in the end.
All said, no one is a slave. Those 200 000 people are VOLUNTEERS.

8. Safety issues at YOG venues:
May I ask, can you stop the rain from pouring? Can you predict an earthquake? Can you predict when you die? The answer to all these question is NO.
Thus no one knew that the strong winds and the heavy downpour could have caused the collapse of the roof.
International events have their own boo boo. For example a fan running to Rafeal Nadal to give him a kiss during an open. No one knew it was going to happen. No one expected him to get pass security. But everyone tried their best to make things perfect. Sometimes not everything can go the way we plan it to be.
No one was injured, yes. But the problem was quickly resolved and the players had no other problems with the venue right?
MOVE ON PEOPLE! No one is perfect.

9. Mass food poisoning outbreak at two YOG venues:
You cannot control a food poisoning outbreak. But you cannot blame only the food provider. There are many ways to get food poisoning. And one of the most important cause leading to food poisoning is the lapse of PERSONAL HYGIENE!
Those volunteers might have forgotten to wash their hands before eating or they may have left their food exposed while talking to their friends. You don’t know this would happen do you?
Its just food poisoning people. Doesn’t take more than 3 days to cure from it. It’s not as if someone died eating the food right?
Again MOVE ON PEOPLE! No one is perfect.

10. Daily inconveniences for Singaporeans:
Its only going to be 2 weeks. Not a lifetime.
Giving way to YOG buses. Is it that hard? It is almost the same as giving way to buses during peak hours. Simply there are more people in the YOG transports than your 2-7 seater cars. Can’t you simply live with that?
The change in bus routes were very well published on the websites of transport providers. Moreover, notices infront of the buses were pasted as early as 1 month before the change in routes. Singaporeans had PLENTY of time to plan another route. Simply, some are just TOO LAZY.
When NIE/NTU students are not complaining, why are you? Given the longer semester break, most NIE/NTU students are actually quite happy about it.
High security is needed of cause! For GOD’s sake. They are housing YOUTHS without their parents. Of cause the need for high security to ensure that everyone feels safe. Even Condominiums have high security too don’t they?
Isn’t the rescheduling of SOME school examinations good? It allows fair grading to students who are involved in YOG (both as athletes and as volunteers). As a teacher, I am surprised that the writer do no find that it is better to postpone the exams rather that do a re-exam for those who missed it.
And as for the volunteers, no event ends later than 9pm (apart from soccer). Having allowed their children to be volunteers in the first place, these are just some of the minor sacrifices one have to make. Like I said earlier, there are always two side of a coin. Look at things the positive way. Blame yourself before blaming others.

Conclusion:
Some Singaporeans like to talk big when actually, things are nothing but a small issue
Some Singaporeans do not like to take resposibility for their actions
Some Singaporeans do not know how to appreciate things in the bigger picture
Some Singaporeans are not thankful for what they have
Some Singaporeans only know how to complain
Some Singaporeans are short term people who do not know how to look at long term benefits
Some Singaporeans are just too free to complain too much
And this list goes on.

Editor’s Note:
Please feel free to drop me an email at [email protected] if you are not happy with what I’ve shared.
Please also drop me an email if you’ve found evidence for the things shared by the writer.

Mod’s note:

“1. Exceeding the initial YOG budget by more than three times:
Can you actually give the source where you found this information? Is this source reliable?”

Source: http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_550497.html

“THE budget for the inaugural Youth Olympic Games (YOG) has surpassed original estimates of US$75 million ($104 million) by more than three times.The projected government spending for the 13-day Games in August will now be approximately $387 million.”

The commentator obviously hasn’t been following the news about the YOG even on the state media. As such, we felt there is no need to continue the discussion on the other nine points. Please go and read up first. There is always “Google”. Don’t expect us to spoon-feed you on everything.

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@Mod

Please continue reading the article. It DID state that “He stressed however, that the benefits will still continue to outweigh the increased cost. Besides $260 million (or 70 per cent of the budget) worth of contracts that has been awarded to local companies, the YOG is also expected to attract about 40,000 foreign visitors, generating a $57 million boom in tourism receipts.

Also, the IOC has estimated that the YOG will be watched by a global audience of 1.5 billion, with the total international media value in excess of $86 million.”

Isn’t this afterall beneficial to those without a job?

See! Again you failed to look at a positive side of things

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Someone Larh:
August 23, 2010 at 2:38 pm

So how much have you benefitted from this YOG!
1 million, 20 million? How many people without a job have you employed? Can Show Prove?
What Complaining that is so wrong to you?
When you point out anything means complaing is it?
Why is that answer you get from your rude children is it? Whenever you question them they must be telling you to stop whinning and complaining at your face, i suppose! That why you are trying to tell others to stop comlplaining.
Bewarned, if you don’t stop making a nusaince of yourself you will be truly complaining with stomach ache soon! ‘Bresi ta nut gutry helha uiew frst vier tras nerak’!

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someone licks, are you STUPID or what? Do you even know HOW to COUNT? $260,000,000/- to WHICH local companies? Probably all government-linked ones or those owned by the likes of shit hock wrong. As for the figures quoted, $57,000,000/- + $87,000,000/- = $144,000,000/-. This works out to a nett LOSS of $333,000,000/-. WHAT POSITIVE SIDE is there to look at? The only logical conclusion is that you are one of the vendors who made money from this fiasco.

As for that RETARD sin, he WANTS me to engage him when he cannot take harsh language?! He may quit taking part in this forum but he may still be reading this. So sin, this is for you. YOU BLOODY MOTHERFUCKING BASTARD IDIOT SHITHEAD RETARDED MORONIC CRETINOUS ASSLICKING SHITSUCKING SODOMITE SON-OF-A-BITCH DICKHEAD, are you saying that it is OKAY for the school to FORCE the students to attend the STUPID games and make them pay $5/- to force them to TURN UP when they may NOT even want to go in the first place? You mean to say that the principal has the right to commit EXTORTION to make them turn up? Oh yeah silly me, to you it’s okay because you’re UGLY as SIN so you must live up to your name of being a SIN. If you don’t like the type of language I use, well GO FUCK YOURSELF. I DON’T GIVE A FUCK WHAT RETARDED MORONS LIKE YOU THINK.

As for everyone else, this guy is proof of how stupid a diehard miw supporter really is. He may want to bullshit us by saying that he has no love for the miws but they’re still the best people for the job but get this straight. The miws are the ones RESPONSIBLE for ALL the DEBACLES that have embarassed the country recently, and yet they will NOT even acknowledge their faults, let alone correct them. This is only logical; somebody who REFUSES to ADMIT their faults will NEVER make any attempt to correct them because they think that they have NOTHING to correct. So ladies and gentlemen, be like that SHITHEAD sin and vote for more of the same BULLSHIT, or take destiny into your own hands and vote the miws OUT of office.

More of the same self-serving bullshit that hurt ordinary Singaporeans, or take a chance on change: the choice is YOURS.

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I am really beginning to see and realised that LKY,really has “No Brains”. He was jus lucky to hve a few Goodmen behind ,thinking n implementing successfully…look at his son….basically “clueless”..No sound,No picture ..and maybe “Oldman” jus as lost ..b’cos all his “past advisers” and “doer” ,as compared to the now majority “Talkers but can’t do”…they are basically a “Lost soul with no souls”…

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Haha, I see this as organising an event using the style of SAF. So much similarity here its twins ftw. Haizzz… he won’t apologise, cos he knows “What can they do if I refuse”. Same difference.

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APOLOGY? You must be kidding!

No Lesser Mortal Sinkaporeans will EVER hear it in your lifetime from ANY PAPies. The freaking word is NOT even in their dictionary!

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@Zheyi:

Have you been reading only the MSM?
Ok now… Sit dog…. good dog… have a bone

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The only gripe I have with Singapore is with her education system, which seems to be capable of churning out hatespeaking, illogical and ungrateful ingrates, who are only capable of critising the status quo, without being able to provide any decent suggestions or alternatives.
===============================================
Please elaborate your meaning of decent suggestions or alternatives.
Their attitude of we know what is best for you, won’t allow any suggestions or alternatives to be reviewed or acknowledged. To them they have covered all possibilities and areas as they are the unique talents, thus, no others can come up with any idea or better idea.
Ideas and suggestions were brushed off as complaints.

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So, basically, “anonymous” and “teo pian”’s retorts are “Your understanding is superficial, while I have a deep and thorough understanding of world affairs, which I am uncomfortable in voicing out?” Be that way.

What I mean when I say “decent alternatives or suggestions” would obviously be concrete steps to take to improve the current state of affairs, instead of saying “One party rule is horrible omg the government is taking all my money and has not returned anything to me, even though i’m employed, sheltered, and living in a effectively crime free zone, in a country with affordable education, food, and healthcare”.

Obviously I cannot make the generalisation that everything that has come out of anyone else’s mouth is a complaint, but it is perfectly legitamate to classify statements like “Does Miss Vivian have the balls to say sorry? We seriously doubt so. When he opens his mouth, nothing comes out, except BULLSHIT!” and “Were you bornt[sic] yesterday or did you left your brain in the toilet this morning before you struck your keyboard? ” as mostly brainless gripes about non-issues.
(an interesting statistic: recent ST survey shows that 90?% of singaporeans believe that democracy is the best way to maintain equity and showcase everyone’s opinions, but 4% polled admit to actually making their views known)

Furthermore, do you actually accept statements like “The way to go from now on is to dismantle the one party rule in the next GE. Do that and everything will fall into place and all native Singaporeans can live happily ever after.” ? How… full of depth and insight.

Also, before you start shooting your mouth about the lack of free choice in this country, please do note that the Singaporean government does take suggestions and comments from the general public. All ministries have “contact us” sections and do respond to you when you pose queries. Meet the MP sessions also exist. A far cry from : “Their attitude of we know what is best for you, won’t allow any suggestions or alternatives to be reviewed or acknowledged. To them they have covered all possibilities and areas as they are the unique talents, thus, no others can come up with any idea or better idea. Ideas and suggestions were brushed off as complaints.”

Maybe more people will start taking your “real ideas and suggestions” seriously if you actually have the maturity to take responsibility for your comments, instead of being a (anonymous, no less) keyboard warrior.

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“lead everyone to the jungle” Obviously discussion with facts and statistics and conducting comparisons with other countries and forms of governance is as confusing as running circles in a jungle.

a. They’ve already done the review and found that the rochor canal was inadequate for 1/4 of the average year’s rain over 3 hours. Insurance covers the cost of the flood damage to private entities.

b. Bankers, Doctors and lawyers still earn much more than politicians. Also, do you seriously think that people will be politicians if they can do much less, face less stress, and be held accountable to less people for the same (or less) pay? really now? Also, you can’t “peg the pay to the gini cooeffecient” do you even know how the income distribution curve works?

c. Yes, let’s reduce the population. It doesn’t matter that the fertility rate is 1.28 per woman. It doesn’t matter that they’re already buying more trains and reviewing the SMRT system. And it doesn’t matter that the government doesn’t own the SMRT.

d. Yeah, lets cripple the Singapore economy by screwing foreign labour. Let’s watch the average singaporean decide “hey, i want to work in a construction site” or “hey, i want to be a nurse!” or “hey, lets be a domestic helper and work for minimum wage!”. In the meantime, food prices skyrocket as costs of production increase, the economy slows down with less willing workers, and we won’t be able to purchase any of these so called “limited resources”. Obviously Singapore faces limited resources. We purchase our natural gas, our food, and most of our water(with money gleaned from working). However, it holds true that our prime resource is people i.e talent, enterprise, expertise. Your point is that we need to reduce the pool of talent even more? Now that can’t be right.

We have a cabinet of yesmen? Really, even when PAP MPs regularly raise questions in parliament about the current standard of governance?

Also, why do people like to assume that “voting for the opposition” will make everything okay? “The cabinet has to be stocked with better people. Voting the opposition is to prepare for the days after LKY dies.” ! Whoo!

Furthermore, “Give them some years, feed them with the necessary knowledge (which has been locked out to most citizens until the advent of Internet) and they will be ok”

Nessesary knowledge has been locked out to most citizens? locked out? As in, inaccesible to the commonfolk who do not like reading books, watch tv, talk about current affairs, but otherwise completely competent leaders?

Now I’m not saying that the PAP is perfect. But it sure as hell is better than whatever the opposition has thrown at you. (Dr. Chee Soon Juan, anyone?) If you want Singapore to be better governed, then do something about it. Join the PAP, if you will. Or join the opposition parties. Don’t just lobby against “everyone but the old No.1 in the PAP” because you view them to be yesmen and completely devoid of ideas, and yet have nothing to say when you look at the opposition.

In fact, stand by your view that MM Lee, singlehandedly without any opposition or aid from within his party, is the sole cause of everything good that has happened to Singapore, and continue putting your faith in the opposition because hey, they’re the opposition, what’s not to like?

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Zheyi:
August 25, 2010 at 8:41 pm
…………………….
once in while,we get a real bootlicker,a very pro bootlicker like you.
interesting but disgusting!

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@zero,

a. Flooding. Do you think the canal got SMALLER? obviously not. Rain is natural, and the rain obviously got out of hand in this situation. I don’t imagine anyone could have predicted 200mm of rain over three hours in a traditionally non-rainy month, especially when last’s year’s total june rainfall didn’t even hit 200mm. You seem to be implying that there’s an additional reason that’s undivulged for no apparent reason, which quite frankly I cannot understand. Also please do not discount that fact that they really have reduced the incidence of flooding, and reduced floodprone areas by a large proportion.

b. Please notice that while Obama’s pay might be less than our present batch of ministers, he also has a huge allowance which isn’t accounted for. And also take note of the disparity in standards of government. On one hand we have a stable country with a strong government that has enjoyed effectively sustained growth (barring recessions) over the course of our existance. On the other hand here’s this country, a supposed superpower, drowning in trillions of debt, and boasting a proud unemployment rate of what? 18%? (as compared to 3.2%, if you were wondering). Also, it’s not a self fufilling prophecy as per se. You’re making the assumption that all stress comes from scrutiny on their income, which i must say is completely narrow minded. My point being, if they could be a teacher for a fixed salary of 5k with effective tenure, as compared to a politician with a fixed salary of 5k without effective tenure, they would clearly rather be teachers. The extra pay is there to buy their competency and their work, which seems to be perfectly reasonable, seeing that all of your needs are met. Basic economics also tell you that as the supply for good ministers is low, and the demand is high, the price (or in this case, income) of the ministers has to be set accordingly high.

c. “all of our resources are dragged to the limit. For what? ‘To increase GDP’. For what? What about future? Do we care, or is PAP only intrested in the current election term to increase current GDP?” .. yeah, that’s what the population policy is about. We’re bumping up numbers for fun! Those numbers have no real indication of citizen welfare, and our current government is completely fail and has no foresight whatsoever! Obvious conclusions. (by the way, a quick check at the Worker’s party manifesto shows no proposed changes to the immigration policies. Neither does the SDP.)

d. .. of course, the government has not responded to queries about the sustainability of foreign worker policy at all! the media has also not published commentary on the current state of affairs, and the government has shown no foresight!

Also, I’m not extolling that the PAP’s members are incredibly strong. I’m just very confused at the fact that you would rather vote for the opposition today, even though you admit they are inferior, in hope that they would do just as good(or bad) a job as their PAP counterparts.

Unless you have personally done some form of complaint or written in to some form of governmental body, and have clear indication that they have wilfully ignored your comments like trash, maybe it’s not so wise to proclaim that the government does not take suggestions from anyone?

@ anonymous ,
Maybe you should read more carefully. The actual quote is “Obviously I cannot make the generalisation that everything that has come out of anyone else’s mouth is a complaint, but it is perfectly legitamate to classify statements such as … …. as (complaints)”
You’re supposed to infer that I’m saying that I have made perfectly legitimate classifications of statements, and not a misnomer. (i.e, generalisation)

@ LIONS ROAR,
Basically your point of view is that everyone who does not blindly support the opposition party is a disgusting bootlicker? okay.

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To Zheyi.
This is the second instalment of my reply to you.

Ministers Pay.
You are very happy with the 3 million dollar annual salary paid to singapore top brass. You compare with america and use “Percent Unemployment” figures. You say there are trillions in debt. Hey, kawan, do you know america population is 304 million people? You want them to have 3% unemployed only like singapore, only a mere fraction of their population? As for the trillions in debt, do you realise that americans debt are caused by unnecessary wars with iraq, and also bail outs to save the huge banks due to greedy cunning financiers (lehman story etc),. How can you compare?
You go compare with Japan. 5% unemployment. Ok? what is their PMs salary including perks? no where near ours. You can also compare with Finland, a very nice peaceful country with about 5 million people.
You can always do comparison, but always remember singapore is just a dot. We have no international responsibilty. The world will not die if singapore dies. If america dies, there will be too many unthinkable doom for the world. We Singporeans are nothing, not even a race, just particles of loose sand drifting in the space time continuum. Why we think or ourselves so high and compare as if we own huge tracts of land control huge resources, and pay some people absurd amounts?
Next your example of 5k teachers salary. You said the minister will prefer to work as teacher if he is paid low. This is the favourite arugemnt of PAP, they use extreme example. Please dont. Of course you mustt pay the politician $100,000 perhaps not $5000 per month; to compensate his troubles, NO ONE DISPUTES this point. But how much should we give exactl. Money should be given to them to enjoy life because they sacrifice their lives to help us (supposed to). But if you pay a person too much, he starts to have wild thoughts. Because money is like oxygen. You can only use so much. Beyond that you go crazy with too much oxygen. You begin to be lazy because you get too much of money already for doing more or less the same thing each month. You begin to plan other things because you can’t do much with money in a small dot 600 sq km. You may even plan escape paths for you and your family in case Singapore has riots and no more stable. Other countries welcome you with open arms, 400 million dollars if you migrate to their lands, why not.

We can’t be paying people too much, we have to be reasonable.
I maintain that we should pay the politicians high pay up to a certain reasonable level based on the responsibilities associaed with a small country like ours. And we must have good excellent service failing which their pay must be revised, just like in private company. The terms of employment should not be linked to GDP alone, that is a sore point many oppostion parties already pointed out, this is a country, not a Lee Inc.,

Also it has been proven already paying high salaries doesnt attract talent. As you also suggestted, you dont feel too confident with the current crop of leaders after LKY.

zero

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To the person who copies my name.
At the moment we don;t have the full evidence for how long it took to collect 198mm in 2006. Therefore your argument is not valid. How do you know in 2006 the 198 rain fall wasn not in an hour or two?

Anyway, i live in singapore all my life. I was in singapore on the day of the floods. I could not detect any difference in the rainfall pattern as compared to the last 20 years. It was nothing unusual. On the day of the 2nd and 3rd floods, i was also in Singapore. Again, there was absolutely nothing unusual about the rains in terms of intensity. I have seen such rain before as would have anybody living in singapore. It should not have flooded PayaLebar, Thomson, Orchard etc. I wrote elsewhere that floods are controlled by drains. I have a eerie feeling that to avoid orchard road floods, some locks were repositioned so that other areas are flooded to save Orchard. That’s why Orchard will never flood again you know. But watch out expecially Potong Pasir. Ha ha ha ha ha.

zero

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it is precisely because they have a 400million population that a 19% unemployment rate is so worrying…

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I understand that the budget has increased nearly 4 times since the initial budget was made. I appreciate the difficulties of organising the inaugural games and I am proud that Singapore was the first host city for the YOG. The difficulty of organising an event on the scale of the YOG is not simple, to do it at a world class level even more so. In this light, the budget spirals while regrettable are a necessary evil to feed and clothe the volunteers, refurbish the venues, cover the buses and in essence run the games. My gratitude goes out to the volunteers, who were the life of the games regardless of whatever their motivations may be.
It would be a lie to say that it wasn’t disappointing to see the empty stands. I wish Singaporeans would have been more participative at the games and see for themselves what the YOG was really like.
In all, there were many things that could have been done better, such as to drum up more support from Singaporeans, but I would like to thank everyone who helped made it happen for a job well done!

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@Zheyi:
August 25, 2010 at 9:24 am

I would like to join in the fun of your discourse.
For starter I like to praise you, Zheyi, for your conviction and I admire your boldness in stepping out to defend our best political party in Singapore, the PAP.

I also have my 2 cents to share on your topic. This is not for the indulgent of my insolence but truly for the broadening of our mutual horizon.

Why is everyone complaining?

Obviously everyone here is pretty unhappy. Do you think should the PAP dismiss their concern?

The YOG is clearly going on quite smoothly, though obviously without the flair of the omgwtfover9000 budget the chinese had for their olympics. Singapore is currently being run by extremely competent government, albeit not to the ridiculous standards that some Singaporeans are demanding.

Here is a hypothesis:
If I spend 30 billion dollars in organizing the Olympics and reap a benefit of say 50 billion dollars, I have the benefit of at least 20 billion dollars and that is very good. The tourist I can attract not only come and visit Beijing, they can also visit many of my other cities hence the benefit is enormous. I liken it to be hosting the BPL or Champion League where everybody want to see. The event is historic to say the least. The countries that participate are also very serious by sending their best men.

Hmmm… in the case where I organize a event like the YOG which most people hardly heard of, at least for me it is very much unknown, 300 million dollars would be like throwing into the drain. The money spend is unlikely to be recoverable. I cannot imagine soccer competition without a Brazilian, Spain or English teams being part of the tournament is still being called a soccer competition of world standard, for me it is ridiculous even if it is only meant for the youth. Surely these countries have youth don’t they?

The YOG did not went smoothly as you say. When hardly anyone attend an event and the organizer shout sold out, it is truly embarrassing. Any upright person would hide his face in the sand instead of putting on a brave front to astroturf the situation.

When officials speak to public they always try to be diplomatic. What do you expect the president of YOG to say? “Oh Singapore! You are lousy and our event will never be held here again”. I reckon no sensible organizing committee will ever say that. Even the most ill organize event will receive accolade that is very natural.

The hate for a one-party rule is very surprising. There is no clear indication that a two-party or a multi-party democracy is much better than a one-party one. Checks and balances still exist within the Singaporean system, and ultimately the government(a highly transparent one, might I add) is still responsible for its mistakes. Singapore, under the leadership of PAP, have enjoyed a stable currency, one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world. Her residents have not felt much tremondous impact from the recent crippling reccession, a high proportion of Singaporeans have good access to healthcare, are literate, have good welfare and have housing. On the other hand, the biggest example(USA) of a country with 2 strong, clear parties is on the edge of ruin: debts amounting to trillions, TWO wars haemorraging billions of money as we speak, inability to pass any proper legislation without ridiculous amounts of time and tweaking and money, a double digit unemployment rate (which amounts to a few times of Singapore’s population, mind you) and ridiculously high crime rates. Don’t go trumpetting the failures of the Singapore government now.

Why is it surprising for people to think that one-party rule is detrimental to them? It reminds us of the ruling of a country like that of an emperor or dictator. One example of a one party rule is the Baath party under Saddam Hussien. His atrocities I need not elaborate here.

If we allow a one party rule we will lose our freedom of speech, which is already happening. It will become a dynastic rule where father will pass onto his son to rule. In North Korea, it is already happening. In Singapore I don’t know if people do consider our state of affair to be the same or equivalent.

There is a lot of example where two parties or multi parties democracy is much better than a single party democracy. In fact a single party democracy is hardly a democracy at all. The state is always accountable to the people and not the other way around. That is fundamental of democracy. Elected individuals are servant to the country and they are not lords of the people. They should do the will of the people and not the other way round. Political parties elected in a democracy does not own the country but the people is the one who owns the country.

The PAP is not an inefficient political party as far as I am concerned. I think they are rather efficient. Yet I find fault with them based on the fact that we should have a more balanced center of power. We the people should hold the key to the power base in Singapore. When we feel that one party is doing a good job, we should give them the majority to rule and look after the people. That is a rational thing to do. For this I agree that PAP should have the majority. However I cannot allow them to usurp absolute power that is unwise to me as a citizen. There are apparent reasons and I don’t think I should waste bandwidth to illustrate on the obvious.

As for your example on USA, may I ask you who ruin the economy of the US, the corporate leader or the politicians? If not because of the country having sound political system, not only American will cry but the world damn world will die. Just imagine if the US dollars are reduced to worthless toilet papers and PAP will then tell you that your reserve is now only worth as much as toilet paper, how could you the people take it? Hey most of us can jolly well say bye bye to our CPF money and everything will be in shamble.

The stringent check and balances of the USA system ensure that no political parties can come out with a deal that favors their own political party leaders. On the contrary in Singapore we can only see politicians who are nothing but rubber stamps, how can this be desirable?

If the people of Singapore feels something is wrong with their government and don’t speak up then it is truly their own fault and folly. There is no one else who have a higher moral authority than us to censure or criticize our government. Mind you that foreigners cannot interfere in our internal affairs. Our support is the pillar that erect their status.

The calls for a mass voting of opposition parties just to cause the downfall of a “one-party-rule” is ludicrous at best. The opposition parties in Singapore are highly incompetent, and do not possess the foresight or the ability to navigate Singapore in a VERY dangerous global situation, with little to no idea of what to do once they get elected, besides “PAP is down, we are a real democracy now!” ._.

Could you teach us how to end a “one party rule”? This is the most legitimate and civilize way to do it isn’t it? We do not know of any other ways to do so and we really don’t want one party rule. It is not really that difficult to look after a town council and after all expert will be called in to manage it so you don’t need to worry. If opposition is no good in managing a town they will die a natural death. At the moment there is no one political party that can field enough candidate to win the mandate to take over the PAP. Don’t be a paranoid, PAP wont just go down because a segment of Singaporeans are unhappy.

Also, while the YOG could perhaps be better organised, it is an extremely difficult thing to do: YOU try organising the movement of 300million dollars to organise the FIRST global sporting olympics.
On the other hand, India’s preparation for the Commonwealth Games have been nothing short of Fail(yes, with a capital F). An emergency coalition of governors had to take over because, less than 100 days from the start of the Games, few of the sporting arenas are finished, and basically every dateline has lasped without completetion of any requirements.

If you dare to give the money and the same resources of PAP to the opposition to run similar event, I guarantee that they will do a much better job because they are not as complacent as the well paid PAP’s men. Moreover these PAP’s men are enclosed in impregnable amour and their stools are as marketable as gold.

The world is so big, it is definitely easy to single out one failure to make you feel so successful. Even a little boy who come home with a red mark in his report card can rebut his mommy displeasure by saying, “30/100 is an excellent marks mommy, there is a boy in a school called Timbaktu and he only gets 0/100″. Now should the mommy praise his sonny boy and gives him a prize to encourage him?

The only gripe I have with Singapore is with her education system, which seems to be capable of churning out hatespeaking, illogical and ungrateful ingrates, who are only capable of critising the status quo, without being able to provide any decent suggestions or alternatives.

Blame PAP for the education system, it is their brain child. You should tell them not to give the people education so that it is easy to govern. Maybe then PAP can succeed as the sole governing political party.

The PAP has already received so many suggestions and alternatives on their table, they turn to the people and tell them they do not want to be distracted, they prefer to morph into deaf frog.

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