Open letter to PM Lee and Cabinet Ministers over arrest of YOG critic
August 26th, 2010 | 
Author: Dear PM and Ministers,
I refer to the arrest of a Netizen by the police for his online posting in the FB.
“According to The New Paper, Mr Malik posted a comment written in capital letters saying that the incident showed it was time to “burn the sports minister and the PAP.”” - quoted from online source.
AND a follow-up article by www.tremeritus.com. See link http://www.tremeritus.com/2010/08/25/did-dr-vivian-lodge-the-police-report-against-yog-critic-for-facebook-comment/.
AND
http://www.asiaone.com/News/The+Straits+Times/Story/A1Story20080203-47963.html.
I want to bring to your attention why the double standard our police force deals with events – let classified them as domestic (non-political) and domestic (political).
No doubt Singapore Police Force (including the whole of Civil Service sector) can consider first-world in action BUT when it comes to dealing with domestic events concerning local politics, its action JUST ONE WORD – Disgusted!
The follow-up articles above cited a few examples said if an incident that caused a party injured (non-seizable). The police would only take down particular and ‘advice’ the victim to take his own action ‘to file for magistrate complaint’.
I would 101% support such action if the police can apply uniform actions for all domestic events including those involving political or government critics. This action can result the police to better manage it manpower and efficiency to deal with more important matters.
Thankfully, today we have the new media (the Internet) and citizens can receive more information not just restricted to print media. Before, I felt disgust the SDP public disobedience actions BUT after digging out more news report from Internet. The police action is far worst then what the SDP done! Feel like spitting on those policemen’s face!
Lets go back to the arrest of Mr Malik issue, if he has posted something in his friend, Ali’s Face Book, “I will bring 10 men to your house tonight kill you and your family!” and Ali went down to Bedok Police Station and lodged a police report. Will our world-class police force go to Malik house and arrest him? Or the Police will ‘advice’ Ali to file for magistrate’s complaint so that action may be taken?
What about a group of PRC ‘rioting’ in the SBS bus after stranded at Singapore Zoo earlier this year? The police was called and the group was escorted out from the bus to waiting taxi.
Two months ago, a NSP leader was summoned by NEA official for ‘illegal hawking’ (for selling their newsletter) at Tampines. All along opposition parties and ordinary older/disabled Singaporeans selling tissue are doing that for years.
What about the times and resources wasted on prosecuting the SDP members/supporters for ‘offences’ like ‘walking along Orchard road wearing red shirt’ and ‘giving flyer outside City Hall MRT station’? I don’t see that police/NEA official go around arresting those weekend flyer distributors outside MRT station?
Why 4 silent red-shirted persons carrying ply-cards standing outside CPF Building were surrounded by riot police? Yet, one year later a group of PRC workers (hundred?) ‘rioting’ outside MOM building and you don’t see a single riot policeman! Why the double-standard?
Hon. PM and Ministers, in my earlier email, I want the PAP to continue govern Singapore in long-term but not a party that disregard the welfare of ordinary Singaporeans. And follow a string of events happened recently, Singapore does deserve a strong alternative party in the Parliament. And I hope the coming GE, Singaporeans can wake up and don’t just purely look at how the MPs have done for their municipal estate development BUT also NATIONAL INTEREST side. After all, Singaporeans have only one vote – to vote for NATIONAL MP to form the central government and NOT STATE MP/ City Councillor.
Oop, I hope not after sending this email to you hon. Ministers, someone come knocking my door inviting me for kopi at the police station.
Thank you for your attention.
Yours Faithfully,
TAN KENG HONG
Editor’s note: Published verbatim without editing
Posted in Letters
well said the double standard is real but you this thing will change unless something happen in the next elections
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MR CHIAM, welcome to toa payoh bishan GRC to contest.
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What will MM advise PM to deliver in his National Day Speech this Sunday?
Will he address adequately on the following and have the answers for each:
FTs and FWs and employment opportunities for all,
More job creation
Rising property prices
Rising transport fares
Rising medical costs & retirement homes
Rising cost of living, less rice on the plate for the same price, and cheaper new sources of food supplies,
Aging population
Retirement age
Less babies
Education and further adult education
Relationship with neighbouring countries
YOG’s spillovers, and the medals.
The two casinos and the $26m.
Political succession and the likely next PM for grooming to take over,
And, the latest burning issue of Malik.
and more.
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I started to patronise TR recently and very surprised how bad Singaporeans are bashing their own govt. They are litterally blaming the govt for anything that happen be is flood, casino, YOG pitfalls, fare increase etc.
Singaporeans do not know how fortunate they are. Coming from India, look at how is our transport system, waiting 1 hour for a bus which may never come, stenching more than 30 degrees in the bus. Flood is literraly everywhere in India.
There are no perfect govt in the world and certaintly Singapore govt is a world class one. Just look at the regions around Singapore, would you prefer to live there?
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No comment from me, govt kopi not suitable for me and i don’t see any ball on me, be it on chest or groin. sorry.
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I do believe he is going to “Messup and stir the hive” again ! If you observe carefully, their approach tis days is to “Challenge”or ignore you.
Arrogance ? Over Confidence ?
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The PAP has done a very credible and great job over the last half a century and I personally believe their leadership will continue to be excellent for the future. With such a distinctive track record, it has nothing to fear in terms of the opposition. One thing I believe it need to do is to be more confident with regards to its maturing and more vocal local population. In a sense, the local population’s maturity is a result of good education under its charge.
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Kumar,
this is a family matter that only Singaporeans should be involved. What we think about our government is really none of your business, you know? Just earn your money here which is what you are here for and go back to where you come from once your think it is enough.
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“Kumar:
August 26, 2010 at 2:07 pm
They are litterally blaming the govt for anything that happen be is flood, casino, YOG pitfalls, fare increase etc.”
then what do you expect. congratulate them for flood, casino, YOG pitfalls, fare increase etc. ? I thought all these things that you mentioned are nothing good to be happy about.
“Singaporeans do not know how fortunate they are. Coming from India, look at how is our transport system, waiting 1 hour for a bus which may never come, stenching more than 30 degrees in the bus. Flood is literraly everywhere in India.”
I heard that MPs in your country threw chair & microphone on one another. Then why is your country not hiring our talented ministars frm the tpt & flood minitry to solve your country’s problems. Why not you recommend them to your country. Our ministars very cheap – each only costing 2m+ per year.
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Kumar – you came from the slump, you will be happy with what Singapore is offering you,fast treaked toilet paper c. and first class opportunities. This is Singapore, a first world country, developed economy, not Siberia or Tazania. If we forever compare Singapore against slumps, then there will be no reason to complain.
Kumar, you are what the government is looking for. Give you PR and citizen, you kiss their arse and give them your vote. You are not local, you dont know what the locals been through and now the locals are being treated like third class in their own backyard. If India government treats Indian like third class, how would you feel? If India already close to billion of people import another few millions of “Foreign Talents” from China or Singapore and give them good opportunities over Indians, how would you feel? If indians have to compete with other talents in their own backyard and lower.lower pay and unaffordable public housing, how would you feel?
You see thousand of angry posts, this is not a minor issue now, a lot of locals are very frustrated. There is something wrong, dont you agree? At least in India, there is real democracy, you vote who you want… But if that is not important to you, welcome to Singapore.
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@Kumar: August 26, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Do you consider india to be a first world country? Do you consider singapore to be a first world country?
Are india’s pm and ministers pay the same as singapore’s pm and ministers?
Is singapore the same size as india?
@Dang!!!: August 26, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Rightfully, if pap is really capable and the people love them, then they need not fear the opposition, so let’s do away with grc, election deposit, and let’s have an independent election dept, police force.. If not, then pap is really afraid of the oppositions..
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Hi Kumar,
We expect higher standard from our Government than that in India. We want world class in everything. No critism, no discontent, no improvement and advancement. In fact to the best of my knowledge, Singapore Government does not allow foreign parties to be involved in domestic politics.
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It is a well written article.
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Kumar: did you serve NS? If you didn’t….SHUT UP!
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will it change
never
its been like this since day one
and the complains
getting very boring
words versus action
sword versus guns
who do you think will win
please be realistic
i am going down to my CC to register as grassroot volunteer
i see no hope for the alternative
unless …….
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@Kumar
Different levels of comparison, Sg is first world country so should compare with first world & Sg only a small country ( not even 1/20th of India ) & small population so must compare to Taiwan, Hong kong, Korean Japan…etc
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@ Kumar:
August 26, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Your specie pee on the street – everywhere is your toilet. We can’t judge our civilised world by YOUR yardstick. You would do better by turning your country into a gigantic pigsty and yardstick that to your “progress” measurement.
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One day Indian talent will be this small red dot president,not “Sinktothepool”
indian.
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@ Kumar and Dang,
Kumar India the citizens can run riot when they dislike cetain policies, they strike back fast. You Know it. Singaporeans has sacrificed a lot. Check that out. Now as stated earlier, True blue Singaporeans have been rubbished in the media. Check that out If you know what Singaporeans went through,( cuts in CPF, Freeze wages, paying higher prices for almost everything that the ground is unhappy about. The basics, Housing, Medical and Education is expensive. When we Singaporeans say Foreigners are taking away jos it is real and many are expriencing it till now.Singaporeans are not whinners and greedy and complain kings. The salaries paid can barely keep up with the rising cost. So if you don’t know ask before you butt in.
As for Dang, yougot to look from all sides. Why GRC, why no Independent Bodies elected by True Blue Singaporeans for check and balance with authority from the people?Was ex Pres Ong Teng Cheong wrong to ask?
The point here is listen to the people . The ST reported on the 21st Aug on how UK is going about to tacle her Debts.The people are involved through 45000 ideas pooled from their citizens
Peace N Love
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To kumar:
Let us get the facts straight. They are illogical grumblers and there are logical grumblers. Here is my opinion:
1. Flood: You must be new to singapore. Heavy rain in the morning is very common. It doesnt cause floods as the drainage is well designed. This year catasrophe happen when heavy rain was just only one hour. It wasn’t Armageddon, but the govt first lied and said it was choked drains. Then they say it is the canal. Did you know the canal has been there since i was in primary school and it was never a problem? The floods are caused by certain reasons which the authorities are shielding from us, yet the govt said no amount of engineering can solve the problems. We don’t blame the govt for the floods, we blame them for the lies they tell us and the whole cover up job. The problem with floods is that it’s gonna come again, you can’t hide under the carpet. Monsoon season coming.
2. Casino: Locals are divided on this issue. Many of us dont like it. In big countries they usually build casino at far place. But they put the casino easily accessible by train in the heart of city. There are pros and cons, so you can’t say it is unreasonbale for singaproeans to grumble about casinos.
3. YOG pitfalls: if you check my posts which are many, you will find that i and quite a few others are very unhappy with the anti YOG stuffs here on TR. The overbudget is a different matter. I don’t like the way YOG is being criticised, it is wrong. YOG brings advantages to quite a few Singporeans, therefore those who grumble are just being selfish because they are not getting the pie.
4.Fare increase: Many people think that fare increases and high rents etc are necessary to prop up the high expenditure of salaries of the ministers. Persoanlly i think it is correct to pay a person higher to avoid corruption, but after a certain limit, the money becomes used as a safehaven for politicans to buy a escape path when Singapore collapses. There is no need for unlimited money unless one is thinking of emigrating lock stock and barrel to foreign safe places in times of trouble. We should not overpay, neither shoule we underpay. And one more thing, the fare increases are artificial. When the price of electrictiy is increased, the govt continue to tax GST 7% on the increase. Is that logical? There is no corresponding expendiutre increase, and the govt tax on the increase in oil prices, so everybody end up paying more. This is why in Singapore we know PAP means pay and pay govt. As someone said, in India you would have kicked them out years ago.
zero
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@Kumar:
My Indian friend… well come to Singapore .
Let me explain to you briefly the back ground .
In the in 1965 Singapore was also a slump , you have to wait 30min for
a bus , road dirty , frequent water shutdown , frequent black out, not
much work available and frequent flooding.
But after independence we work hard , study hard, save our money and built Singapore to what it is today .
So to compare Singapore to India ,Africa , Hati e.t.c… is wrong .
Singapore is a 1st world develop country .
But it’s citizen does not get to live like a 1st world develop country.
It’s citizen have money but lock up by the government. Some of
it’s citizen don’t even got the chance to vote .
Policy are change at will , GLC control by garment ,police control by
garment . School control by garment ,HDB control by garment , news paper
control by garment , TV control by garment , even your money control
by garment.
Prices are skyrocketing , HDB ,Food ,transport , education , electricity,
water . But salary is reducing .
We pay our garment salary the highest in develop country .
But what do we get … We get wayan show , lies , cover up and trample
on .
So my friend .. well come to Singapore . A bit of advice to you , don’t
procreate but if need to, one is enough . You will not be able afford it we are the living proof of a generation that’s been screw by the garment.
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Kumar,
Be very careful, our Govt does not like foreigners to comment
on our affairs. You would deem to be interfering in our politics.
Oh! blind me and thousand apologies , you are actually praising them. In that case, they would roll the red carpet to welcome you and present you a pink IC in no time.
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There is a very big difference between a civilian and a civil servant. A civilian is someone acting for himself or herself while a civil servant act on behalf of the land.
When it comes to cabinet ministers it is worst, they are the executives and head of the country administration, they definitely reserve the protection of the law more than anyone else. There are vested powers in their hands.
Their integrity, their aura, their prestige are important to the bearer of the office, they cannot be step upon or worst threatened.
In the case of Malik he has overstep the boundary, he did not qualify his statement as metaphorically spoken, he did it in an aftermath.
When the muslim shouted blasphemy, Salman Rushdie author of the book Satanic Verses has to go into hiding fearing for his life.
Maybe now the minister is already trembling and hiding below his desk surrounded by fire extinguishers who knows. Someone got to take action.
Calling others to attack a minister is very sinister and mean, if it is not intentional he got to prove it.
First Malik need to prove that the word burn is metaphorical and not otherwise. The word is being used as a verb and therefore it has a note of action. Which famous person ever use the term burn metaphorically. Give an example. He is speaking to a group of disgruntled individual who are an angry mob and he wants them to rally. Rally for what, to burn someone. Is he saying that throughout his discourse it is nothing but a joke, he does not meant what he says? You can never tell someone listening to him speaking maybe secretly planning to do the minister in. That is dangerous.
There is a bona fide case. Someone get that guy a good lawyer, he is very in need of one.
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@Mr Kumar
First and foremost, u are welcome to post and comment.
However, big Question, why is there a need for your to make comparison? India is such a hugh country, Singapore is tiny.. This point here disqualify a comparison of India with Singapore – so sorry your comments is UTTER rubbish to begin with in the first place.
There is no necessity to engage in critical and constructive discussion with you hence – as its pointless, endless, futile excercise.
Good that some readers here engaged you which you should be happy with as they are polite enough towards you.
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This is an indirect consequence of being stuck with a one-party system. Anything goes and to go wishing wanting, requesting, chiding ….. all waste of time and energy.
Vote out the present incumbents or do away with the one-party system and some semblance of sanity might prevail. Otherwise, the hopes for salvation for this red dot of a nation is fast running out like sand in an hourglass!
PS – As for the likes of this no-brainer type Kumar, there are many amongst even the locals.
Look around lah many of the FTs (so-called) look utterly dense type.
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@Kumar:
My Indian friend… well come to Singapore .
Let me explain to you briefly the back ground .
In the in 1965 Singapore was also a slump , you have to wait 30min for
a bus , road dirty , frequent water shutdown , frequent black out, not
much work available and frequent flooding.
But after independence we work hard , study hard, save our money and built Singapore to what it is today .
So to compare Singapore to India ,Africa , Hati e.t.c… is wrong .
Singapore is a 1st world develop country .
But it’s citizen does not get to live like a 1st world develop country.
It’s citizen have money but lock up by the government. Some of
it’s citizen don’t even got the chance to vote .
Policy are change at will , GLC control by garment ,police control by
garment . School control by garment ,HDB control by garment , news paper
control by garment , TV control by garment , even your money control
by garment.
Prices are skyrocketing , HDB ,Food ,transport , education , electricity,
water . But salary is reducing .
We pay our garment salary the highest in develop country .
But what do we get … We get wayan show , lies , cover up and trample
on .
So my friend .. well come to Singapore . A bit of advice to you , don’t
procreate but if need to, one is enough . You will not be able afford more then One child.
we are the living proof of a generation that’s been screw by the garment.
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Kumar, you don’t understand.
If you knew our government as well as we do, you will realize that it is like Jap tentacles porn. PAP has its tentacles in every hole of our lives. Naturally, we have to blame them for everything.
If they just do what they needed to do like other governments in other countries, we will just rotate them every elections.
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When one is subjected to physical assault from a ‘road-rage’ incident – the police will not respond to a telephone call for help.
Instead, it will direct the victim to seek medical attention and obtain a medical report, and for the victim to make a police report with the medical report in hand as a matter of record for consideration if police action is required.
If the victim require speedier action, it will be left to the victim to begin private litigation against the assailant.
Why will the Police now act on its own initiative – if there is no police report made by the supposed victim of the blog – as compared to the victim of the ‘road rage’ bully ?
Clearly, the Pro Alien Party reserve the police resources to serve its own needs – to suppress social discontent, suppress political activism, suppress the truth, and suppress free speech.
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‘Burn’ is a very sensitive word. Normally for about 15 days or in the month of August. Best not to say it at all. Untill the ‘Ghost festival is over’! For harmony purpose, pray, pray huh!
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@Kumar
I don’t think our fellow citizen is criticising, they are just voicing out their concerns and if taken positively, it’s a suggestion to the respective politicians to look into and improve Singapore. Don’t you think so?
Like what my fellow singaporean “sitting bull” says, our country has gone through what you’ve commented about the situation in your country and i’m proud to say that our older generations has gone througha work har to improve the conditions to what we are having today instead of going to another country telling their people how fortunate the are etc, admiring…… our ancestors work har to change it. if you want to have that sort of living in your country, probably you can go back and tell your fellow citizens to work hard like what our ancestors did and not excaping from there.
by the way, in order to have more weight in your comment, if you have gone through national service, probably many show a bit more respect to you.
I kind of agree what our fellow citizen mr “Rat race-r” said… i have heard from many of your fellow country men whom would like to settle down in our country but doesn;t want their son to go through national service… what can we say???
by the way, in case you start wondering, i’m born in singapore and I’m proud to say that i served national service(combat side).
please continue to enjoy reading and probably picking up some valuable suggestions from thsi website.
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Kumar my frend….i have read all the comments, I know sitting bull & zero have explained things to you in a clear way.
It is good that you have stumbled here and I hope you learn.
It will be wise of you to see both sides of the coin and make your judgement.
I hope you tell your frends from India to read this site as well.
I am indian too….generations of my family have been here and contributed to Singapore in numerous ways.
What is happening today, is unacceptable. If you are going to be here long, then you will know too. Thus, be happy that you are being educated here on this TR site.
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Kumar,
my friend perhaps after reading the posts on this article you are now wiser and have a slightly better understanding of what kind of government the pap is all about.
Singapore is what it is today not because of pap alone. Without the citizens sacrificing and giving them support and fighting on as one nation we wouldn’t be where we are now.
However, over the years this pap government has betrayed the citizens who fought with them and supported them. They are really treating the citizens like dirt now. If your government is treating your people the way this pap government is treating us, I am sure your people would have kicked their Ss long long time ago but here in Singapore their Sss are well covered and protected for now.
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well done TAN KENG HONG.
will they reply you here on TR,i wonder.
this is an opportunity for them to impress us and to show us where we have gone wrong.
if not,then,it’s all pure ninsense.
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Kumar – we dont need you in our country. but it seems from your disgust of India,its best advisable for you and your country to hire our successful minister to work in India government and pay them for hiring the best of the best. India production output will in no time beat US and China with our expert system help. You can have them for the next 30 years. Am sure they will take your offer for a good price.
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@Kumar – Congratulation! You are already a celebrity with your one comment. How can I miss out the fun? Let me give you my two cents.
1) Singaporean loves PAP and the reverse of love is hate. They have go bonkers now.
2) They support foreign talent policy thinking that it would boast their personal income and job security because PAP says foreigners are here to create jobs. LOL. It didn’t turn out that way. They came to steal their jobs. Now new graduates are finding it hard to find jobs. Middle age graduates lost their jobs have to drive taxi because there is no proper job for them. Driving taxi has always been the job of the lowly educated but now graduates are driving them to give first world taxi driving standard serving you foreigners.
3) Singaporean have always despise the opposition because it is often made up of less worthy people. Now they embrace them as if they are god. They are doing it out of necessity not of love.
4) The people of Singapore who suppose to own Singapore has given blank checks to the PAP. Trusting and believing in them. However the steward of the monies are writing big checks for themselves and their elites. They also gamble away big money in the stock markets and made silly decision. Yet they are not duly punished and continue to get a big pay.
5) Singaporeans had been praising the PAP so much and loving them so much but never ever expect to be so mistreated. Now they are finding every available fault to bash the PAP in order to reclaim their Singaporean identity.
6) PAP ambition is to have many foreigners in Singapore. This will surely marginalized Singaporean. As an Indian, you work like hell for 2000 rupees which is only close to S$80 for fixing things in India, any job in Singapore will be a great blessing for you all.
7) The repression of free speech in Singapore is so terrible, everyone is finding solace in the Internet, blogosphere. It is like you cannot do it in the open so you go underground.
9) If we take in all foreigners and give them all the available jobs, what is going to happen to our very own people. They got no job and yet have to survive in a high standard of living environment. This is forcing a population to suicide.
10) PAP thinks it is right and “You Die Your Business”, they give all sorts of reasons to justify what they are doing irregardless of the sentiments. Now with the new media maybe the people want to make changes on their own. They are beginning to converge. The harder the PAP wrack the people the better is the resistance. Hope they will catch more Malik and prosecute them before the next general election.
That is not all but I will just give you 10 points to ponder.
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Can we make a police report against the police?
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Actually hor he is already “burnt” to black black colour. I mean sun burnt lah. Just joking lah.
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double standard.. cos some FTs here claim they contribute 45% of the GDP while being only 36% of the population. if SGeans raise their GDP to 60%. maybe they’ll start arresting MOM rioters.
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@Kumar
Precisely because Singapore is turning into India (floods, unequal treatment, deteriorating education and welfare etc.) under PAP rule that we are worried these days.
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Lol…love all the comments directed at Kumar. But then again all you lot are nothing but whingers. Pure NATO, No Action Talk Only. If you dont like the environment you are in, change it for god sake. There is only so much a human being can tolerate stress, its extremely unhealthy. And if there is nothing you can do about it then get the fuck out, leave, migrate somewhere else. Kumar is smart & he knows best.
I’m much happier even though I’m a minority in another country. Every year I visit Spore and listens to my friends & relatives, they all tell the same story of how every orifice in their body is being screwed by the Pro Alien Party repeatedly.
Every year I see Spore changing to the point I now refer it to Little China. Where are all the typical Sporeans? Chinese from mainland is fucking everywhere, in every industry you can think of. Airport staff, sales assistant, food court, constructions, even the geylang whores.
So to all of you whingers out there, pls grow a pair of testicles, migrate to one of the better country below. Burn that little red book, withdraw your CPF and denouce your citizenship. Be an action man like Kumar.
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/15/interactive-infographic-of-the-worlds-best-countries.html
Ohhh BTW Kumar, India is number 78 on the list. Lol.
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Mr. Tan Keng Hong, while I applaud you for writing this letter, obviously English is not your first language. If I was a Minister reading this letter, I’d toss it in the bin for being incoherent and with appalling grammar. I’d suggest if you want to be taken seriously, write in your first language, or else get someone to edit your letter to correct the grammatically mistakes and improve on your coherency please.
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Bad typo… “grammatical”… not “grammatically”.
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Here is another Kumar bashing.
Kumar looks like you allowed India to become like what you had describe. The people allowed this to happen in India. But Singaporeans will not allow such stupidity and allow government to blunder what the people have build. We will voice out one way or the other. You are a typical kumar. What a joke. Go back to India and help them solve their problems before it ends up like Pakistan.
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Hi Kumar, are you aware that India do not belong to 1st world country but Singapore do. Kindly not to compare apple to orange. Singaporean appreciate your silence.
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Kumar:
Kumar, u are welcome to comment here. However, if u want to make a comment regarding this unpleasant matter that happened during the YOG, it’s fine but 1st u need to have some background knowledge on spore’s pay & pay (PAP) system and our locals commment, as mentioned by the other responders. U need to be extra careful on who u r talking about here in spore,it definitely 200% is not the same in your country. They are very sensitive. All I hope is that you’ll try to understand our current situation & try not to be too outspoken here.
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How much money can I make just holding up a cardboard sigh begging for money?
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Much as I despise the double standard practice in this city-state, it is interesting to note that the readers of this site (save for a few decent souls) are upset about opposing views whilst they clamour for their rights to oppose. Btw, the article although full of facts is rather poorly written.
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tr is becoming increasing irrelevant with a very skewed side of opinions on the political party (not government)
it comes to a point where i hate myself for being a singaporean because it is written all over
NATO
citizens get short changed, called names, defamation and all as suggested by all the posting here
and yet all these brave words from people hiding behind their computer using pseudonames
the world – how to take you seriously
as singaporeans we are all spoilt, spoon fed and etc
any sight of discomfort we make noise and complain
nothing new but recently it is becoming more unbearable
have you guys ever though
the best way to learn it to take the painful medicine
remember what MM said we are too dependent on the government and not hungry for success
this is true if you work in the business work
the PRC are really hungry and so are the Indians
the government has set up multiple agencies to do this but failed
and what is left
is throw us into the deep end
so what
so that we can learn and come out stronger
so do you still want to eat at the coffee shop or restaurant
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knock knock (TAN KENG HONG door)
who’s there
ISD
ISD who ???
ISD come to chit chart with you, cannot is it?
tio pawned
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@picknose,
you said “…and yet all these brave words from people hiding behind their computer using pseudonames…”
why are you using ‘picknose’? state your full name here. you are guilty of the same ‘observation’ and ‘conclusion’ of those who are “hiding behind their computer using pseudonames”
you know?
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steffi:
August 27, 2010 at 1:49 am
@picknose,
you said “…and yet all these brave words from people hiding behind their computer using pseudonames…”
why are you using ‘picknose’? state your full name here. you are guilty of the same ‘observation’ and ‘conclusion’ of those who are “hiding behind their computer using pseudonames”
you know?
…………………………………………………
well,steffi,you know this chap is just a pussie.
it’s better he goes pick his nose quietly than trying to pick fights here stupidly.
you know?
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Can Singaporeans write better English? I noticed the writer (Tan Keng Hong) and even many of the authors of this website (The Temasek Review) made far too many grammatical errors in their letters and articles. It is shameful!
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This is an observation from me & a imaginary scenerio.
1)Singaporeans spend approx S$100,000 to educate the child up to University. Naturally when they graduate they will need higher salaries. Indians/Pinoys/Myanmars/Banglas etc (3rd world countries) spend approx.S$30,000 to get their child through. Furthermore many I know are here with forged degree papers–cannot even write simple English report esp from english speaking countries.
Naturally when come to singapore ask for low salary initially. after get PR they quit the company where they got their PR from & demand salaries that singaporean gets.
Bring in their spouse to singapore through the same route–and work as receptions/Document Controllers/etc for cheaper salries-Then when they need hospiltalization or want to give birth go back to their country,after all is over come back. When the economy is down,they go back & wait in their country.Pay CPF so Singapore Garment allow them as long as money go inside CPF. Difference is end of the day all CPF money is theirs when the go back for good. Public housing is being sold to them (HDB)=Remember these are for singaporeans-use our Grand parents & parents money(CPF) to built for singaporeans only that waht all of us was told way back in the 60s.Today is been sold as re-sale flat to FT.They must & should be ask to source the private market for housing.
Will continue at a later stage given my opinion & details later.
2) When Singaporeans reach 30/40 something they are ask to leave the company with the excuse of restructuring & revamping. After that FT comes to take their place. Lets look at this ==this way now.Assuming all the singaporeans males & females lost their job at 40+ —- hat next?????
No choice become prostitude—-even this cannot because got FT there also.
Will cont to contribute as a singaporen who is in touch with the ground & staying neutral without any political connection.
Please continue from here if you have any comment or Ideas.
I have vast experience working in many countries including in most of the FT countries. I work in the Oil & Gas industries as well as move around the Fabrication shops & Shipyards. Spoke to many FT & Singaporeans.
Frustrated Singaporean.
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Am I allowed to say anything?? I dare not, in case i get arrested…:(
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To Andrew Chen
Whilst i agree with you that the writer Tan Keng Hong’s English is deplorable, it does not do well for you to cast a personal insult to him. You are saying things as if you are caucasion “obviously English is not your first language”. Mind you, English is never the first language of any singaporean chinese and that includes your AndrewChen if your handle is truthful and does depict your origins.
Even if your mother speaks English – Singlish – to you from day 1 in the style of Mr LKY’s polished Oxford accent, English is still not your first language. You will never be one of them Caucasians.
And by the way you made a mistake – probably not typo -
IF I WERE
not IF I WAS.
zero
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To TonySim,
That is a big problem. Average Singaporeans are never good with languages, English or Chinese. Malays however are good at Malay i am sure. PAPpies, the top echelon, however seem to be pretty good with it. All the opposition parties except Chee Suan Juan, also make loads of mistakes in their speeches.
I just saw GohMengSeng’s youtube upload. whilst the content is there, the delivery leaves much to be desired; i could spot several grammatical and construction mistakes very easily. The opposition could have scored more marks if they improved their public speaking style and English constructs in their delivery, verbal or otherwise. To convince the educated and well heeled, who are mostly pappie supporters, it is necessary to have good english like LKY.
Finally what amazes me is that many don’t learn. It’s ok to make mistake but not ok to repeat the same mistake a second time. I have seen people who don’t learn they just keep repeating the mistakes again and again. Perhaps no one told them about the mistakes. It may be an attitude problem too. They don’t think it is important to speak correct because they think this is Singapore. That is an attitude problem.
zero
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@picknose
You run your household the same way ha? Take in aliens from outta space and throw your own out, so they can learn and come out strong ha? But your own gate always locked leh? World Class Liar.
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Andrew Chen:
August 26, 2010 at 10:47 pm
Just because of not-so-perfect use of the english languauge & if you were a ministar, you would toss the letter. Then I would say that you are not fit to be a ministar as you are picking on the wrong reason.
Surely the general essence of the letter is not invalidated just because of a slight blip on the use of language. Then probably the manifesto of each mp candidate (potential ministar) should clearly state that communication to them in the future necessitates the use of perfect english as it is so important as it warrants the tossing away of a letter if it is not so.
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The Penal Code in Singapore has been enacted more than a hundred year ago. If the laws are so simple and straight forward to implement as the writer advocates, the lawyers throughout the world would not be arguing perpetually in High Courts all these years. There would not be common or case laws for reference. You can see lawyers carting tons of law books to the court just to prove a point or case in dispute. The Judges and lawyers are often differing in the view and interpretation of laws, let alone the police. The laws are living subjects and have to be interpreted on their own individual merits. No one size fits all!
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@ Zero:
“They don’t think it is important to speak correct because they think this is Singapore. That is an attitude problem.”
Hey mate, so agree with you on the above captioned. I seriously think we can do without the lahs lehs lohs.
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zero:
August 27, 2010 at 7:56 am
To Andrew Chen
Whilst i agree with you that the writer Tan Keng Hong’s English is deplorable, it does not do well for you to cast a personal insult to him. You are saying things as if you are caucasion “obviously English is not your first language”. Mind you, English is never the first language of any singaporean chinese and that includes your AndrewChen if your handle is truthful and does depict your origins.
Firstly, my post was hardly a “personal insult”. Read it again buddy.
Secondly,
Obviously you don’t know the difference between first language and mother-tongue, they’re not one and the same buddy.
While I am Chinese by birth. English IS my first language. It’s the first language I learned from birth, it’s the only language I converse with my parents in. It’s not my mother-tongue of course, but it is my first language. Your contention that English can never be the first language of any Singapore Chinese is rubbish!
As for the “If I was…” vs. “If I were…” argument… buddy, look it up, google it, Oxford it, whatever. You’ll see that both uses of the past subjunctive of “to be” is acceptable, “was” often being the informal use, but by no means incorrect.
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“Devagi: August 27, 2010 at 3:29 pm
the lawyers throughout the world would not be arguing perpetually in High Courts all these years”
No one size fits all. ya lo. but the size of the higher-mortal judge fits & “punches” all.
aiyah, nothing more than morphing disagreements of laymen into legal disagreement among the fraternity with more confusing technical twist so that more people can be in business while indulging in mental & verbal gymnastics lah.
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//English IS my first language. It’s the first language I learned from birth, it’s the only language I converse with my parents in. It’s not my mother-tongue of course, but it is my first language.//
aiyah, not everyone like you lah. maybe your surrounding is full of half-baked or well-done up ang mo so that you are better off in the english language given the wide & better use of it lah – more than any other family lah.
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Well, it’s like this. You’re not a big shot, which is why the police don’t accede to your complaints or requests the way you want them to. Plus, there are hundreds of thousands like you; everyday, a hundred, two or more complaints are made with only a handful of officers seeing to them. Which would the police provide top-notch service, a prominent member of the public or one of the many (and that’s an understatement) unseen and unheard of members of public? [The police pay tax too, so don't bring in the 'I pay tax' argument.] It’s all about clout. If you’re a member of the ruling party, be it the British government (pre-independence), the Japanese government (when this place was Syonan-to), the briefly-socialist government or the PAP the police will be there to serve you in a jiffy, and serve you well. If you’re wondering why you’re not being served in that manner, perhaps it’s because you’re not a member of the ruling party. There are just too many members of public to serve. The police prioritise. If you’re a salesman working for a small private firm, you’d want to go for the guy who’s well-dressed, drives a good car, wears a nice watch, instead of the hordes in shorts too.
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Let me reiterate the point that I also don’t disagree that police officers are public servants, and that they serve members of the public– but it’s really a matter of finite resource. If you feel as if you’re not being offered personalised service, write in to the Public Service Division and ask for more police officers. [Last I checked, the army for instance outnumber the police more than 10 to 1.]
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English is the first language in Singapore; the language of administration. ‘Bahasa Melayu’ is the national language. The other languages are mother tongues or native languages. For the Chinese, this is where it becomes complicated. When previously you asked for milk in Hakka for instance, you had then to ask for it in Mandarin, and if you asked in English you’d never get it. But with English you get meat.
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Catch Singapoorean. Very fast. Any damn reason oso can.
Catch Romanian lah, he is still shaking his legs talking cock in Romanian.
Let’s face it, Millionaire, a Lousy job is a lousy job ok.
A liar who claims FTs are here to create more job has still
been a liar as to date.
If we continue to bash our local for voicing out, it will not good
for the POLITICIANS in the long run. If U hv to go, u hv to go.
Understand. Dark s.
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To: Andrew chen,
well i took your challenge and googled IF I WAS vs IF I WERE.
Here is the result from one website:
Quote: the subjunctive mood is the most common mood in the if I was/were dilemma, so if I were is more often (though not always) the way to go. Not every if I statement should be in the subjunctive mood. Consider the following sentences:
If I was wrong, I apologize.
If I were wrong, I would apologize.
The first sentence is in the indicative mood — it actually offers up the speaker’s apology. The second sentence, in the subjunctive mood, states either a) that an apology would be forthcoming if the speaker’s error comes to light, or b) that the fact that the speaker hasn’t offered an apology indicates that he or she was not wrong. In either case, in this second sentence, the speaker’s error and apology are both hypothetical, and therefore the sentence is in the subjunctive mood.
UNQOIUTE
Going back to your statement “if i was the Minister, I would burn the letter”. Applying the principle above (which is also substantiated by a few other websites i visited but i would reproduce the content), and noticing the exact symmetry of the 2nd example where the word “would” is same as your “would” (‘d) it is clear to me that the correct usage is “WERE” not “WAS”. I have never heard anyone use a non subjunctive mood usage in such oonstructs, so far. It is almost always IF I WERE, just as mentioned in the webpage as “the way to go.”
And by the way, unless your parents are caucasians, don’t even think that your First Language English is same as Caucasian first Language English. You’ll never be one of them, so don’t debase others, your tone tells it. I have heard Caucasians speak in this slighting tone which you applied to the thread author.
zero
Read more: http://www.cliffsnotes.com/Section/Which-is-correct-if-I-was-or-if-I-were-And-why-.id-305408,articleId-46281.html#ixzz0xoVI3o3F
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[Quote: Open letter to PM Lee and Cabinet Ministers over arrest of YOG critic.]
Watch out! the hell gate is still opening very wide on this 7-month. The devils who are intelligent and smart, are very active and powerful. The devils who have no mercy and no hearts at all, can easily knock you down and out if you make any petty mistake or unintentionally bad criticism onto them. These are the real devils that I do not intend to frighten you. Take care.
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@ mental & verbal gymnastics lah:
“aiyah, nothing more than morphing disagreements of laymen into legal disagreement among the fraternity with more confusing technical twist so that more people can be in business while indulging in mental & verbal gymnastics lah.”
What are your remedies?
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Devagi: August 28, 2010 at 2:35 pm
what remedy ? by now those who are mellow enough to know this kind of shit would know it is always the competition of opinions – yours vs mind, etc, etc. you just pray that the bigger power sitting on top of you happens to concur with you and he is able to unravel the twist / turn that you may be entangled from some unfortunate process.
some prefer force whereas some prefer the use of arguments. you probably know the answer yourself. it is always better if it slides on the continuum between benevolent use of force (if it is really benevolent) and sensible arguments and opinions (if it is really sensible).
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@ Tony Sim,
TR is not a web site to show off your Queen’s English,nor it is a site to learn English!! If the writer has a point and he brings forward his point with some mistakes, what is the big deal?? if the readers understands what has been written and the points are clear, that’s good enough for me! Am sure most who post here agree!!
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Yap, TR isnt a place to test your English & as long as I understand what the writer is trying to get across, I think it’s perfectly fine. English is my first langauge, just like many of us here, but so is Singlish! I have no shame speaking it & I feel very comfortable using it here in Singapore with my fellow Singaporeans as well as when I meet them overseas. I guess it’s the bond that gel us Sinkies together.
Now back to Mr Tan’s letter; I think it’s quite well-written & he did get his concerns across. It seems to me that the Police are here to protect the PAP people & the Elites, while we Regular Joes are left to fend for ourselves most times. Therefore, I wonder why do we need to pay taxes when all the benefits go to a handful of people only. Maybe, if this happened in the 70s or 80s, not many people will get to know about many ugly things happening, but it’s the 21st century now & things get spread really quick over the internet.
I think the PAP is losing touch with the people & they have no clues how to engage the youth. They have came out with really the dumbest idea of getting some PAP members to do a hip hop, hey pls get real!! Nobody would really bothered about how much the MPs could shake cos all of us are worried about our rice bowls! We are worried that we could keep up with the cost of living, we are stressed with saving enough for the rainy days & we cant help but lost sleep over our jobs!!!!
Please MM, SM & PM, please take a few steps down from your Ivory Towers & see how much we are struggling. Everyday we need to squeeze into crowded trains & yet, you think that we are just too spoilt to stand. Every month, we worried that we will run out money before the next pay-day & everyday, couples are worried that they could not afford a HDB flat & yet, the Mah guy keep denying this!!!! I really hope we could vote you out so we could have a new group of people running our beloved Singapore!
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we all pass away sooner or later. pap also will pass away peacefully sooner or later, i wish sooner but than got credible opp….meh
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We should rally behind the great leaders MM Lee, PM Lee and the Attoney General to sue the International Bar Association for making defamation report on the judiciary system of Singapore.
It was so inflamatory that even reporting it, foreign newspapers get sued by the Singapore AG. So even the messagers are sued why not all Singaporeans call on the AG to sue the IBA?
1. Aug 2005, Lee Kuan Yew said must sue
Asia Time
Aug 2005
The Making of Singapore
IME: Couldn’t you have been lighter on the opposition—not sue?
LEE: No. If you don’t sue, repetition of the lie [makes it credible]. It will be believed …
2. July 2008 IBA publish report on concern of independence of judicicary of Singapore.
July 08, 2008
08/07/2008
Report by IBAHRI express concern about limitations of freedoms of expression in Singapore
In a report released today, the International Bar Association’s Human Rights Institute (IBAHRI) expressed concern about limitations on the freedoms of expression, assembly, and the press, and of the independence of the judiciary in Singapore. The report, Prosperity versus individual rights? Human rights, democracy and the rule of law in Singapore, makes 18 recommendations (pages 67-68), which the IBAHRI urges the Singapore Government to implement as a matter of priority.
3. Sept 2008, Singapore govt through its Ag sue the Wall street and Dow Jones for reporting the IBA report.
Why they dont’ sue IBA?
Singapore to sue Wall Street Journal for contempt of court
Tajikistan News.Net
Friday 12th September, 2008 (IANS)
The Singapore government plans to sue the publishers and owner of the Asian edition of the Wall Street Journal (WSJA) for two articles questioning the impartiality and integrity of the Singapore judiciary.
Singapore attorney general’s office Thursday issued a statement saying it has sought permission from the court to institute contempt of court proceedings against the newspaper’s owner, Dow Jones Publishing Company (Asia) Inc., for articles published in the newspaper that ‘impugn the impartiality, integrity and independence of the Singapore judiciary’.
………The other editorial commented on a report by the International Bar Association’s Human Rights Institute alleging executive interference in the judiciary…….
4. Sept 2009. LI report to UN Human rights…reported in SDP website. Is the PAP foing to sue the SDP and LI for
reproting and also sue the UN for listening? Let’s wait a see.
Sept 10, 2009
Singapore Democrats
The Liberal International (LI) has submitted a written statement to the United Nations’ Human Rights Council. The statement cites human rights violations in several countries including Singapore and Burma.
Singapore
The International Bar Association (IBA) produced a report in July 2008 after it held one of its annual conferences in Singapore. In that report, the IBA stated that:
“The judiciary in Singapore has a good international reputation for the integrity of their judgments when adjudicating commercial cases that do not involve the interests of People’s Action Party (PAP) members or their associates. However, in cases involving PAP litigants or PAP interests, there are concerns about an actual or apparent lack of impartiality and/or independence, which casts doubt on the decisions made in such cases.”
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By the way guys,
Native speakers too make many grammatical errors. Frankly, when I post my comments, I never really read through what I have written as I just want to post my say. This is an informal site where anyone whether their English is good or not should not be discouraged to post due to their competency in the English language. Its the opinion that counts and how we express and communicate our thoughts. The use of the English Language is not an issue. Many of us we have contributed are not trained journalists nor are we trained linguists.
Talk about the speech by the gahments and the oppositions, you are comparing a chicken to a duck. How ignorant are you to think that those gahments can make a speech without the help of a speech writers who are themselves journalists who are themselves some scholars which are provided with the courtesy of tax payers. Whilst, the oppositions have to write your own speech. By the way, if your really want to know how the pappies speak, like no further, you have that Zorro Lim Swee Say ‘ betterer and the betterest’.
After all TR isn’t the main stream media and is not a profit making enterprise so don’t go expecting too much from it. You know that anything that is posted on the internet whether is in the blog, Facebook, or even on this site is informal. These are social networking for heaven sake. It means that whatever is posted is a form of free expression and linking the like mind together.
Look @ issues which are more important then attack one other with frivolous issues like language.
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mental & verbal gymnastics lah:
August 28, 2010 at 4:13 pm
Devagi: August 28, 2010 at 2:35 pm
what remedy ? by now those who are mellow enough to know this kind of shit would know it is always the competition of opinions – yours vs mind, etc, etc. you just pray that the bigger power sitting on top of you happens to concur with you and he is able to unravel the twist / turn that you may be entangled from some unfortunate process.
#1 – So, you have the bigger power sitting on top of you to concur with your post. I shall wait for your post after you got the clearance as I am independent and self-reliant and can debunk you any time and any place.
some prefer force whereas some prefer the use of arguments. you probably know the answer yourself. it is always better if it slides on the continuum between benevolent use of force (if it is really benevolent) and sensible arguments and opinions (if it is really sensible).
#2- You know the answer. I don’t as I just post according to my belief and thought.
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