PM Lee’s $9000 “Carrot” to NSMen is an insult to all Male Singaporeans
August 31st, 2010 | 
Author: 
I read with amusment and contempt at the latest announcement of PM Lee’s decision to give $9000 to every male Singaporean who have completed his National Service liabilities as a distorted and twisted means of appeasing the local population in a feeble attempt to placate the locals and assuring them that Singaporeans’ interest are still “first” in the eyes of the PAP.
Insincerity of the Monetary Compensation
Perhaps the glaring and most obvious slap into the face of every male Singaporean is the fact that the $9000 monetary compensation for the 2.5 years that every male wastes in his National Service liability is that it comes in the form of CPF “money” and not cash. As much as the PAP would like us to think of our CPF money as our own money, the reality of the situation speaks otherwise. While there may be current seniors who were lucky enough to escape the recent spat of changes of ever more restrictive options of withdrawing CPF, a realistic analysis of the past behavior of PAP and their management of CPF will lead almost anyone under the age of 40 to conclude that he is probably unlikely to ever see his CPF retirement savings in his lifetime. With schemes like raising the Minimum Sum, raising the Retirement Age and most recently the reduced payout from CPF LIFE, as a mid-20s male citizen I am fairly confident that the only way that I will ever see my CPF money is when both my feet are in the coffin (an analogy that implies that the CPF money can only be withdrawn upon death or at a very old age). Thus, this token sum of $9000 CPF “money” that the PAP has offered is probably as useful as the “hell notes” that the Chinese burn as an offering to their ancestors. Quite simply, it is useless.
Inadequacy of Monetary Offer
Another slap into the face of every male Singaporean is the fact that TWO AND A HALF YEARS of the prime of our lives is only worth a pathetic $9000. In other words, the PAP has deemed that each male citizen is worth $3600/yr to $4500/yr (depending on whether you served 2.5 or 2.0 years of NS). In comparison, it makes every male citizen (in terms of monetary value) as valuable as the domestic maid you may have employed in your house. In fact, if one were to do a more accurate calculation and factor in the additional 10+ years of reservist liabilities, one will soon realize that (in terms of monetary value) maids have more value than male citizens in this country. Perhaps this was the point that PAP is trying to make – the lives of the male citizens in this country are less valuable than a maid, and probably approaching the value of a slave.
How Much is a NSMan Really Worth?
The following section attempts to calculate how much monetary compensation the PAP owes every male Singaporean. We shall use the most simple model to benchmark the lifetime earnings of a male Singaporean to that of a foreign “talent”. This models assumes the current age of 40 for the hypothetical person, 2 years of NS liability for the Singaporean, and 4 years of tertiary education for both the local and the foreigner, a starting salary of $30,000/yr, and an annual increment of 6.0%. With reference to the “Difference in Culumative Salary” column which denotes how much more a foreigner can earn in comparison to a local, the table below quite convincingly shows that a male citizen, age 40 as of this year should be entitled to claim around $150,000 based on the differential lifetime earning power when compared to a foreigner who has no such NS liability. In addition, to a first approximation, the table may be also used to derive the monetary entitlement for the compensation of National Service liability of any male from the age of 23 to 40 by looking up the respective value at the last column. When compared to the lowest value entitled for a 23 year old, which is $30,000, it does not take a genius to figure out that the $9000 monetary compensation from the PAP (even assuming it was paid out in cash) in a gross underestimate of how much the current government owes its male citizens.
| Year | Age | Singaporean | Foreign “Talent” | Difference in Culmulative Salary | ||
| Annual Salary | Culmulative Salary | Annual Salary | Culmulative Salary | |||
| 1989 | 19 | National Service Liability | Tertiary Education | NA | ||
| 1990 | 20 | NA | ||||
| 1991 | 21 | Tertiary Education | NA | |||
| 1992 | 22 | NA | ||||
| 1993 | 23 | $30,000 | $30,000 | $30,000 | ||
| 1994 | 24 | $31,800 | $61,800 | $61,800 | ||
| 1995 | 25 | $30,000 | $30,000 | $33,708 | $95,508 | $65,508 |
| 1996 | 26 | $31,800 | $61,800 | $35,730 | $131,238 | $69,438 |
| 1997 | 27 | $33,708 | $95,508 | $37,874 | $169,113 | $73,605 |
| 1998 | 28 | $35,730 | $131,238 | $40,147 | $209,260 | $78,021 |
| 1999 | 29 | $37,874 | $169,113 | $42,556 | $251,815 | $82,702 |
| 2000 | 30 | $40,147 | $209,260 | $45,109 | $296,924 | $87,664 |
| 2001 | 31 | $42,556 | $251,815 | $47,815 | $344,739 | $92,924 |
| 2002 | 32 | $45,109 | $296,924 | $50,684 | $395,424 | $98,500 |
| 2003 | 33 | $47,815 | $344,739 | $53,725 | $449,149 | $104,410 |
| 2004 | 34 | $50,684 | $395,424 | $56,949 | $506,098 | $110,674 |
| 2005 | 35 | $53,725 | $449,149 | $60,366 | $566,464 | $117,315 |
| 2006 | 36 | $56,949 | $506,098 | $63,988 | $630,452 | $124,354 |
| 2007 | 37 | $60,366 | $566,464 | $67,827 | $698,279 | $131,815 |
| 2008 | 38 | $63,988 | $630,452 | $71,897 | $770,176 | $139,724 |
| 2009 | 39 | $67,827 | $698,279 | $76,211 | $846,386 | $148,107 |
| 2010 | 40 | $71,897 | $770,176 | $80,783 | $927,170 | $156,994 |
Does the PAP really owe every NSMan up to $150,000?
The numbers from the table above may be shocking, but mathematics does not lie. To a first approximation, the PAP owes every male citizen from age 23 to 40 a sum ranging from $30,000 to $150,000. However, perhaps the more disturbing fact is that the figure is an approximation and the real value is likely to be higher. In this short study, we have failed to consider factors such as the preferential employment of foreigners over the locals and the higher retrenchment, unemployment and underemployment rates of locals. Moreover, we have also failed to account for investment returns from one’s savings which generate a geometric return over time, and given that a foreigner has a 2 year headstart compared to a local, this difference will accumulate to a non-trivial sum by age 40. Thus, it is the author’s honest assessment that the assumption of both the local and foreigner having the same annual increment of 6.0% is most likely incorrect and not realistic. In reality, a local will experience a lower annual increment value (or perhaps even an annual “decrement” value due to retrenchment/underemployment) over his working lifetime. Nevertheless, the short study provided here does provide a decently accurate estimation of the lower limit figure of how much the PAP owes its male citizens.
Garrett Goh
* Garrett Goh is a recent graduate from the National University of Singapore. To a first approximation, he calculates that the PAP owes him $65,000 in compensation for the 2.5 years he wasted in National Slavery Service.
Posted in 
Please do yourselves a favour and stop speaking on behalf of “all singaporeans” or “every male”. Just because you chose to feel the 2.5 years was wasted, and that life and experience is only measured monetarily is extremely short-sighted, and I would really behoove you not to apply the same lens to the rest of us who do not share your point of view.
Your whole point is not whether PM Lee’s offer of money is an insult to your service; were it so I might have given you credit for some form of integrity. Your whole point is that the amount is not enough, and that your approval could be bought if the sum were sufficient, making you no different from the mercenary stereotype this site conveniently labels on all immigrants.
We could do without you. Last thing I need is someone in the trenches, assigned to cover my behind, all the while thinking he isn’t paid enough to do this duty.
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Hi Garrett,
I feel that this 9k is not about being adequate but rather an insult in a sense that we are taking 9k as a compliment to serve NS.
Rather my perspective is that we serve because we honor and its our duty( in the past).
9k (cannot use anyway) is an insult in a way that we serve because of money. That is how our lee perceived.
This is about our pride.
I would rather our lee focus on more practical issues surrounding us such as jobs, security, housing, education and identities. Insult truly, does he really think we serve because of a petty 9k?
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@Lucian Teo: “Your whole point is that the amount is not enough, and that your approval could be bought if the sum were sufficient, making you no different from the mercenary stereotype this site conveniently labels on all immigrants.”
Eh hello, SO WHAT if the issue is about dollars and cents? It is the parameter employed by the papayas to evaluate our ‘contributions’! So we can ‘do’ with Garrett’s analysis! My point to you is this: if you feel that the act of giving money is an ‘insult’ and wants ‘integrity’ in whatever form to be acknowledged, then too bad, the papaya views everything in monetary terms, and money can buy time. Too bad, our time in rubbish NS is completely wasted, so adequate compensation is necessary.
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@Lucian Teo, what fiacking dollars and cents you toking about? Sinkaporeans like YOU will only see a figure with NO access to the amount at all, you stoopid issit?
I PROPOSE that Native Sinkaporeans ALL FORGO this $9000 “carrot” and GIVE UT to the FTs to do NS, anyone not agree?
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Garrett, the obvious other option is to emigrate and renounce your Singapore citizenship. You get back everything in your CPF accounts, even down to the last cent. Thousands have done so including yours truly. So can you.
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The younger generation may sees it as a carrot.
I am in my 30s… I don’t see it this way.. reason being.. he kept aiming housing as an “investments” for NSmen. It does not even fit any bill of paying for loan… This is CPF money which like many would say. We will never get to see them coz this 9k is pretty much virtual money. I rather they focus more money on the poor/inept/old and provide them with better food/shelter.
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Who ever thought of loyalty and patriot for Singapore. Especially when Singapore Jobs, land, education and souls are sold so easily to foreign talent and buyers. What is National Service – “Serve for the PAP”. Its definitely not for Singapore or ourselves or our children. We are mercenaries in National Service to fight and defend PAP and their policies. Thus a price tag of $150,000 per year (on top of current allowances and benefit) should be suffice. Now that the PAP brought it up by setting a price of only $9K for 2 years lets put a price tag on our National Service and ask for the real amount.
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Do our dear clown prince and his cronies considered as “Serving the Nation” too? Then they are no different from any of our boys in NS.
So how come he write his own pay cheque of millions and dictate the payout to others who serve the country like him?
I can only say clown prince want to make you believe that he is serving the country but what he really serve, some of us can see clearly.
This 9K is to shove into those simple minded people who will silence them for some time, he can get this 9K back in so many other way in no time, with interest.
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Just tell the younger generation, get their money AND VOTE FOR THE OPPOSITION. Anything inherently wrong with that?
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No, the $9k is not an “acknowledgment and Recognition”
Its a “tool” to “show as well as to shut your mouth” that he heard you and he has now …gone out of his way…to appleased and recognised NS!
No need to go into the details ,why we “True blues” are not happy.
No body is asking for $9k or any money.It is he himself that is thinking “$” can buy everything ..sad.
The fact is …HE IS INSINCERE !
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Any way we served our NS and remains obligated till we reach 40. What is $9000 compared to the time and efforts rendered? It wasnt announced at the budget but why on ND? Who really cares?
Nothing is free, this government will get it back. PM will just put the money in the CPF where we cannot use and by raising HDB prices and minimum sum or other fees, $9000 can be nett off.
This hypocrisy, we have seen multiple times, there is no need to doubt about his sincerity and why suddenly $9000 was pledged for those who toiled and sweated as cheap labour.
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@Lucian Teo — I think you have really missed the point.
The writer is merely showing to the rest that if, you ( PM) , really think using “Money” is the way to resolve the “unhappiness” and “unfairness”…..then lets jus “Open Cards” and compare “Apple to Apple”.
And of course, the writer has “successfully” demonstrated the HUGE DIFFERENCE…if “we just use Monetary terms” as a way of “appleasing or recognition”.
The writer has essentially “Exposed” PeeM “insincerity” and let some say “a chimp wearing a tuxedo” !
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@Lucian Teo:
August 31, 2010 at 6:13 am
Give our ex-NS men a HDB apartment for free, I am sure MONEY IS NO ISSUE after that. Until then, get real.
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I WILL PAY THE GOVERNMENT $90,000 FOR ME NOT TO DO NS. I CAN EASILY RECOVER THAT $90,000 IN A YEAR IF I AM A REAL FOREIGN TALENT.
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we are born here, how can we said 2.5 yrs wasted in NS? so NS is not necessary? money can really compensate it? let’s not go to the extreme on such argument. it will make you no difference from those in the power.
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Nothing good comes out from his mouth. Only ridicule and comptemt!
Psalm 36 verse 3. “The words from his mouth are wicked and
deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and do good”.
PM Lee, before you caused more damage, I say to you,
“SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP”.
PAP SURE LOSE
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The solution is very easy. Make PR can be revoked any time within 24 hours notice after one year of familiarisation and acclimisation to this culture and nation, they have the option to take up citizenship.
ONCE YOU ARE A CITIZEN, YOU CARRY THE SAME LOAD AS CITIZENS. Why? BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT A “GUEST” ANYMORE – SAME LAW, SAME RIGHT, SAME OBLIGATION AS PROVIDED IN THE CONSTITUTION.
if you still want to be “guest” the host got plenty of visitors coming in, we cannot guarantee you hospitality and accomodation. Time for you to move if my hospitality is NOT good enough.
Guests have FREEDOMS INCLUDING THE FREEDOM TO LEAVE. CITIZENSHIP HAS NO STRATIFICATION – no political class, no second class and no third class unless the Constitution and constitutional rights of those trodden is deliberately violated.
NO ADOPTED SON OR DAUGHTER IS BIGGER THAN THE HOUSEHOLD. THIS COUNTRY IS NOT A WHOREHOUSE OF PROSTITUTION. INTEGRATION MEANS WE ACCEPT YOU AS MUCH AS YOU ACCEPT US.
We don’t need prima donnas nor political whores. Fair go for all.
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why why can’t are clueless leaders just hit the roots of the problem?we’re not complaining abt not being compensated for our 2yrs but 2yrs of our precious time becoming a hurdle to our career plus 10yrs of reservist training, which obstruct our career development and our disadvantages over employment
moreover the 9K can only be used for education purposes, and normally can only used our CPF for approved courses conducted by approved institution
if our leaders are sincere enough, they shd only issue work permit/S pass to our foreign worker and only issue PR if such FT hv work for at least 10yrs so that they can integrate into our society and culture, so that we dun hv to spend millions of dollars integrating them
moreover if FT also serve NS, it will help to integrate them into our society, serving NS does not means they must carry arms, they can serve NS by contributing to the cleaniness of our streets by helping out as cleaners, road sweepers, traffic warders(but not to issue summons), there are so many ways that FT can be employed to serve NS
still can’t understand why girls aren’t serving NS
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To be fair to Garrett Goh, he did mention that – “I read with amusment and contempt at the latest announcement of PM Lee’s decision to give $9000 to every male Singaporean who have completed his National Service liabilities as a distorted and twisted means of appeasing the local population in a feeble attempt to placate the locals and assuring them that Singaporeans’ interest are still “first” in the eyes of the PAP.”
This piece is his opinion in rebuttal to PM Lee’s decision to give $9,000 to every male Singaporean who have completed NS liabilities.
What were the reasons for this sudden charity from PM LHL – when surely it cannot be to satisfy himself for completing his NS liabilities on a super-tracked White Horse classification ?
Clearly, this is an ELECTION PLOY brought up in an ELECTION YEAR to garner the support of Singaporeans, who have spewed their guts and spitted on the various Pro-Foreign policies from the Pro Alien Party.
This is a poor attempt to appease the Male Singaporeans who have completed NS liabilities, as the Pro Alien Party will hope that these NS Males – being Head of Households – will help influence the decisions at the polling booth.
With a standing SAF force of 365,000 through the years, there must be at least 1,000,000 Singaporean Males that passed through NS since 1967 and still living to this date.
Paying each NS Male a sum of $9,000 – it will mean a sum of almost $9,000,000,000 from the Government Budget into the CPF.
Where is this amount coming from ?
With budget deficits already announced for the period 2010/2011 – will this extra expenditure come from the National Reserves approved by Parliament and the Elected President ?
It has never been resolved as to ‘how the CPF money is managed’ – if GIC or Temasek Holdings or both are managing the CPF funds.
Will this $9000 – going into the CPF funds – be recycled back to meet Government funding of infrastructure costs at a lending rate of 2.5% – which is about the same amount that CPF pays to the account holders ?
What is the purpose of this pseudo-charity exercise ?
If at all, paying a meagre sum of $9,000 is an insult to Singaporean Male who have completed NS liabilities since 1967, when one consider that the NS LIABILITY PERIOD for each male can begin from age 18 or 19 till age 40 or 50 – (depending on rank).
What about those NS Males who died during NS period, or those who passed on at an early age – will their surviving family members get to see the $9,000 for the sacrifices made by the deceased NS Male ?
Instead of this poorly disguised election gimmick in an Election Year – it would have been more intelligent for PM LHL to have used this $9,000,000,000 into a sinking fund to pay for the premiums of a NATIONAL INSURANCE PLAN to protect Singaporeans of all gender in their old age and need fundings in healthcare, hospitalisation, and medical attention.
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I would serve NS without the 9k. this 9k is not to compensate you for NS idiot. its an additional bonus on top of all the other NS bonus that has been given out over the years. you do not speak for me, cause i served with pride during my NS even if i had to go home on weekend in sweat and had a GF running away with an officer.
oh btw, i rather take teh 9k then ask FT to serve NS. you do not speak for the 66.6% of singaporean thats for sure. stop representing me.
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I will pay triple the money (27000) from my CPF to the foreigners to serve NS – I’m not joking, I’m serious. PM Lee thinks he can “buy” everything with money. It works with the PRs, but it will not work with the true blue Singaporeans.
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How on earth did they derive the magical number of $9k anyway?
2.5 years of full-time service and 10 years of NS liability is indeed a heavy burden. And it becomes meaningless when you know you are to protect chao ang mohs and PRCs who got citizenship cheap.
PM Lee acknowledged that fact but decided to dole out a sum that contradicts his opinion. $9K for housing…that’s pathetic when you are not yet 35 and single, and a resale flat sells for more than $350K at least.
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When I was small, I was taught country before home.
Without country, there will be no home.
How can u said we wasted our time in serving NS?
Some said that, why cant a girl serve NS?
We r male, and a true male will protect the girl, and not vice versa.
I will not let my wife to hold a rifle and protect me, while I hide under a pillow crying for help.
Now, seems that, in these writer’s or most of the readers’ mind is money r more important than a country’s stability and safety.
I agreed that something need to be done on those so call new immigrant or FT, so it will be fair to us that serve NS. They need to get those new citizen do national service ( maybe short term BMT)
after that re-service as it will be more fair to us that serve the country.
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If i cough up $9000 to the government not to serve NS will the government accept?
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Why does PM walk like a very horny woman? I noticed this years ago and I still can’t understand why a grown man likes to wear pink. Walks like a horny woman trying to gain attraction. He also has a wife that looks like a man. If I saw her on the road at night, I will surely run away from absolute fear.
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I may have dislike the idea of NS, and think is a waste of time too. However, having completed my 2 years of service, I don’t really think it is that bad.
We get to learn team spirit, communication skills and a bonding between all males in Singapore. If you notice a common conversation starter among Males, who are meeting for the first time in a social event, is usually “whats your reservist unit”? Not that we go thru NS just to have 1 conversation topic, but thats something that you can use if you are not very sociable.
Plus all the 10 reservist, is always a good break from work. It gives you 2 weeks of rest from your boss, do something different, and a time for exercise.
Not to mention that NS is to showcase our military strength to the people. All our economics growth and luxury wont be here if we cant protect ourselves and make friends with others. With a country so small, we cant appear to be lonely.
If you are a talent, you will be a talent. Your talent will not be hidden or buried because of 2 years of national service.
9k is what the govt gives us as a bonus. Thou i feel that cash is better than CPF monies. When they give, you take. Whether or not you support or against them, thats another topic for discussion.
TAKE first, TALK later.
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@ clueless:
August 31, 2010 at 8:56 am
Good suggestion! If FT got talent, how come they are unable to clean our streets, hospital toilets, wheel patients around, assist in ambulance work, direct traffic, help elderly do shopping, keep our landscape beautiful, help our tourists around to make this a friendly global city etc etc. It is the “gotong royong” kampong spirit of integrating into our society and sharing COMMUNITY RESPONSIBILITY and be part of our culture. After, they have done 10 years of “reservists” duties like us, they will appreciate us better and BE PART OF US THE WAY WE SURVIVE AND MAKE THINGS WORK IN THIS SOCIETY.
If they don’t have this minimal commitment, the the new citizen does not fit in, they can leave if our hospitality is not good enough.
WE CAN’T SHAKE HANDS WITH THOSE WHO CLOSE THEIR PALMS OR WHO HID THEIR PALMS IN THEIR POCKET, CAN WE?
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This “Clown Prince” is now out to insult our intelligence by thinking that we (male serving NS) are all beggars who are deserve only this much !
I rather pay him the S$9000/- in cash and will he let me forfeit NS or Reservist like Foreign Trashes he is importing in… ???
@Lucian Teo: You no need to suck up to your master “clown prince” as he won’t give you promotion anyway !!!
What he give … he will take it back and earn more then double with interest so we are no more stupid to believe his speeches which is insulting us as we not “DRAFT” (like this Lucian Teo).
I really hope within my life time to able to see the day this regime will collapse !
Down with the authoritian state who think we are cheapskate slaves to them as they suck us dry and feed us to the Froeign Trashes !!!!
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@Lucian Teo
Take it as the author’s way of measuring how much we have lost to FW. Unless you can propose another way of measuring.
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lhl is trying to buy votes. Election is on the way. Regarding the $9000 for every male NS citizen, i would prefer to use the money to help the poor.
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reading your article reminds of a time when I went for interview and was told by the boss “I can’t hire you because you still have reservist, too much down time for me”
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S$9000 for 2 yrs full-time and 10 yrs part-time job.
Good money!!!!I want it.
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To Dissappointed TR:
When I was small, I was taught country before home.
Without country, there will be no home.
How can u said we wasted our time in serving NS
U are not protecting yr coumtry,U are not protecting PAP and immigrant or FT.
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In a multi-million dollar budget for Mindef, $9k is peanuts!
Mandatory NS for new citizens/pr is still preferred for them to have a stake in Singapore. If they’re shunned away by the idea of NS, they do not want to protect Singapore by carrying the rifle to battlefield when war strikes.
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[Quote: I PROPOSE that Native Sinkaporeans ALL FORGO this $9000 “carrot” and GIVE UT to the FTs to do NS, anyone not agree?]
Yes, I agree with you. This Party alien Party thinks that we are stupid, ignorant and lesser mortals as what they have alreaday told us. This papies use it to sweeten us as well indirectly numbs our senses so that our daft natives who are kiasu and kiasi, will vote the PAP in again on coming election. Wait, I think there are more sweeteners given out as the election is drawing nearer. All these things had happened many times before when the election is near.
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I see NS as a form of compulsory cheap labour available at the gahmen’s disposal. I believe we can do away with conscription and get people who really want a career in the army to sign on themselves. Think about all the things you’ve been doing in NS. How many of you have done things during NS to do things like cleaning up litter or cleaning thing or putting up things that has nothing to do with securing the country?
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Have complain..dun have also complain…
Hopeless…
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There is no need for such silly payouts if the PAP did the right thing from DAY 1… pay all NSFs FULL-TIME REGULAR WAGES. And institute NS for both genders, like Israel. All foreign thrash who want to become citizens or stay here for over 3 years must serve NS also.
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Stupid Singaporeans. Give money also don’t want. Fucking stupid. What they want? All foreigners to leave Singapore? No foreigners in Singapore all Singaporeans sure die.
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Hey lucian. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority feel it’s time unnecessary wasted. Sure there are those who feel they belong to an useless organization just to feel better about their lives, i.e. you, the rest would rather have the experience of not serving at all. So go crawl back into that corner you came from and daydream about being in the trenches all day long scaring yourself in the process, yea? Haha.
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Whether You Like It Or Not
also, the extra income earned earlier grows compounding over many years.
please say after me,
Whether You Like It Or Not
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Those of you complaining about Garret’s article and whinging about how we should be patriotic and serve NS without due compensation are missing the point!
With the lousy PAP’s Pro-Alien policy, we local Singaporeans do not have a level playing field to compete against foreigners. Pick any foreigner, they have a 2-year advantage against us, not to mention the disadvantage of our yearly obligation of in-camp sessions.
All else being equal, an Employer is more likely to employ a cheaper, younger foreigner with no yearly obligation to boot, than any local Singaporean.
UNLESS legislation is enacted (like in Australia, like in Britain, like in France, etc), where locals are protected, just lip-service that “Singaporeans come first” is @#$%^&* bullshit.
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Some Singaporean commenters here have the wrong idea. I feel I must correct this.
Wrong idea: Their sons need to sacrifice their lives to protect foreigners
Correct idea: Their sons must sacrifice their lives to protect foreigners’ PROPERTIES like HDB flats, Condo and Bungalows.
All PRC, Indian, can just go home when war comes, especially for Malaysians. We can walk across the causeway if needed. But Singaporeans boys/men must protect all our property.
Do you know how much I spent on furniture? What if come back after war and find stains on my sofa??! Is SAF buying a new leather sofa for me?
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@barrick: then bugger off and stop reading TR! you can always just continue to read the SHITTY TIMES, take the 9k and believe in YOUR pride in serving NS. Whatever!
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Perhaps the intentions behind this article wasn’t too well written. But just to clarify the aims of this article were:
1) LHL sudden $9000 gift for NSMen is quite arguably a rehash of the same old vote buying strategy, i.e. have you noted historically that “free money” from the govt always seem to come before election year? For the Singaporeans who accept stuff at face value, I’m sure they will be singing “WOW, $9000 so much free money!!!” This article is written to put in perspective how much monetary compensation that male citizens should be entitled to for the loss of their 2-2.5 years if one does even a half-decent calculation.
2) For those commenters who disagree, let me just post this question. If I were to give you a choice – Pay $9000 or serve 2-2.5 years which would you choose? Nobody in the right mind would choose to waste his life unless he/she is considering a career in the military. All the “merits” of NS that has been commented is bullshit if you ask me.
3) For those commenters who say there is no choice, well technically that is true. But please have a more global perspective! Almost all if not ALL developed nations have phased out or are phasing out mandatory conscription. The only ones that don’t are countries like Israel (surrounded Muslim nations who have historically declared that their goal in life is to wipe Israel off the map), S.Korea (sharing the border with N.Korea who may have nuclear weapons and a trigger happy dictator) and Taiwan (who faces the might of China, the 2nd strongest military power in the world). So who is threatening this Red Dot to justify mandatory conscription? NOBODY. National Slavery (oh I meant Service) is an anachronism from the past and serves NO FUNCTION today apart as means of PAP control over the local populace.
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Wow , those NS and my incamp training only worth 9K, my pay is worth more than 9K per month.
Can i pay them 10K with additional 1k to skip NS service and incamp training for my child ? if not then I better option have them applying Hong Kong permenent resident and face possible having futher PRC cizitenship in 2047 than wasting time serving NS.
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To China PR: August 31, 2010 at 10:51 am
Excuse me…
By inferring your local hosts as stupid…thus by calling the kettle black…and by “staying” here locally in this “black” kettle…by implication and simple logic thus by default you are also STUPID too : )
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It’s so sad to hear Singaporeans criticizing their own government. Give their citizens money, they also complain. Look around you in the neighboring countries and u will see the difference. I wonder in some of the armies around here, do they have such a kind of payout. Though they are not regular army, do they have such perks and standard of life Singaporeans here enjoy. If you are not happy here, pls do renounce your citizenship and migrate to the neighboring countries and only come to Singapore as a tourist. I think we gotta speak up for a fact that why we are a first world country in 45 years and our neighboring countries are still not as developed as us speaks a multitude that how well we did. Credits not only to the govt but also the citizens that made this happen. Would you like to live in an environment where a bomb will go off anywhere and anytime around you? SO THINK FIRST BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE.
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May be Lucian Teo is a running dog of the master, ie. RC, CCC, grassroot member who has been taking the advantages of free parking and other benefits from which the they were paid from taxpayers’ money. So he had got more than what he had lost out from the NS. Or may be he not even doing any NS? So he is the 66.6% that have made us suffered for 5 decades?
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We should remember that the current lot of MIW are in it for the money, unlike the Old Guards, some of whom went without pay for a period. So, no point taking about honor, duty, dedication, etc. in their context; they only see things in monetary terms nowadays.
That leaves whether the $9K is adequate. Obviously it is an insult, monetary-wise. They should inform everyone how that amount was derived at – was it simply plucked from the air by our botak FM? Remember LHL justified to have “best people” & “not corrupted” type in parliament (aka surround himself), then Singaporeans need to pay them ‘appropriately’. That somehow worked out to be 5x that of US president’s pay for himself even for a Tiny Red Dot. So, to cut matters short as the mechanism is obviously beyond anyone’s comprehension, if we want our citizens to “defend country” and “not run when the bullets start flying”, then we should be paid 5x that of a typical US soldier.
For those that feel being paid-off for their NSF/Reservist time is an insult, never mind, lah. Just take the money graciously and donate to the needy that would have greatly appreciated an additional $30 to get by with, which Mr MCYS was so *u*k**g stingy about. I know I would do that, rather than to buy a YOG ticket.
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Foreign Man Please stay out
Please stay out of issues that do not concern you. Enjoy the welcome the government has provided you and do not involve yourself with the issues the people have with their government. You need to know the history of the country before you can criticise the people’s actions and feelings. Even if you get citizenship I am afraid you still have no right to say what you have said because you do not understand the history of the country.
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If anyone think that $9K is peanuts, why not give $9K to every FT that migrate to Singapore?
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@China PR, PR Citizen and Foreign man
.
Yes, well back where you guys come from, you may not have heard of toilet paper and electricity. So your ignorance is understandable. Singaporeans on the other hand are looking at Swiss standards, not caveman’s. This is becos’ your governments are not paid the highest in the world, so maybe that’s why you use newpaper to wipe your asses. Ours uses golden toilet paper going by the salary they are drawing. So, we understand the cultural shock you may have, but pls try hard to integrate into OUR SOCIETY. I think MCYS spent $10m on some integration programme for guys like you; did they show you what toilet paper is?
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i wonder why so many ppl is complaining about 9k=NS, the 9K is not for your 2 years.
its the 9k for 2010 only. NS bonus and other benefits are giving out on a yearly and some permanently bases.
so 9k for 1 week ICT, which i continue to get my last drawn salary, what wrong with that. its 9K for 2010! not for your lifetime. ask yourself did you get more money due to NS in 2009/2008 or not?
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“If anyone think that $9K is peanuts, why not give $9K to every FT that migrate to Singapore?”
Good idea. Of course, the conditions must be the same. First, they must serve NS, and the 9k will be credited to their CPF in phases
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Look people, it’s the PAP’s fault in thinking that everything can be settled with money. They should be doing the right thing for S’pore citizens in first place.
No need to later come up with a pathetic untouchable limited usage $9k later on to “differentiate” born bred citizens who have served NS with others who don’t.
The granting of citizenship to new immigrants to create “instant” supporters for the PAP is the root of the problem.
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Neutral:
You must be one of the new citizens. Let me extend a warm WELCOME.
May I also highlight to you here in Singapore, CPF is practically UNTOUCHABLE. So even if I wish to give away the 9K to new IMMIGRANTS, I am not allowed by the law to do it. I.E. I would be prosecuted.
In fact, I pretty much have no say, no view, no vision of the CPF monies, although CPF keeps saying it’s my fortune and my savings. Currently, I’m still attempting to understand how come someone else decides when I am legally allowed to access MY savings. Perhaps with your talents you can assist to comprehend.
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so sad to see so many people here equate $ with NS.
we should not, serving our country is priceless – is
our duty and honor that should not expect return.
This is how educated we are.
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@ Neutral: August 31, 2010 at 12:09 pm
” If anyone think that $9K is peanuts, why not give $9K to every FT that migrate to Singapore? ”
Why not give $9K to every FT/PR to serve National Service in Singapore?
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this stupid ruler gives money to his studid countrymen again. they should give money to me and all the FT working in this small red dot.
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anonymous:
August 31, 2010 at 8:47 am
The solution is very easy. Make PR can be revoked any time within 24 hours notice after one year of familiarisation and acclimisation to this culture and nation, they have the option to take up citizenship.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
concur!
like i always notice,this govt is constantly doing tings for ‘OUTSIDERS’;MAY BE ACTING SOME KIND OF BIG BROTHER FROM THE UN?
HEY! THEIR FIRST AND SACRED duty is to all the citizens,please lah!
can NGIAM TONG DOW tell the miws that,please?
can the PRISEIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SINGAPORE so much as to remind the govt of that please?
our govt is so reluctnat to lend a helping hand to our very own workers and poor citizens but throw away our taxpayers’ money,our jobs and livelihoods away more generously than SANTA CLAUS!
OR RATHER ’santa clowns’????
recently,pm lee,cited in his NDR speech asking the young to face competition bravely and squarey but is the govt sincere in doing it?
NO! IT IS NOT! the govt CREATE BARRIERS for its own citizens vis-a-vis the FTs in so many ways and you all should know by now,what these BARRIERS are!
i feel sadden to see all our forefathwers and ouer efforts get squandered away as if all our efforts count for NOTHING?
MY HOPE IS THAT WOEVER THE NEXT PM MAY BE,he or she,come to realise all the follies and take heart to make amends for the overall GOOD of SINAGPORE AND SINGAPOREANS into the future.
unless,of course,we put in people who are not proud enough to be true blue SINAGPOREANS?
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give money to FTs instead of yr sleeping GENERAL and stupid soldiers.
we guarantee you 20% GDP every year.
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Foreign man:
What in the name of a rat’s fundament do you know of the sacrifices a NS man makes? Do you know what kind of a pittance of an allowance we get for a modern day indentured servant? The opportunity loss of National Service do not do justice in the absence of a clear and present danger to the essence of Singapore.
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PR is not a stepping stone for citizenship. PR is a substitute for work permit for ‘foreign worker’ who have to be ‘outstation’ in singapore for a ‘prolong period of time’.
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I believe this 9K will only have paper value and it will not be a liquid asset to all NS men. Just like stocks. Delude yourself when it is just a piece of worthless paper.
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I can see a bunch of dumb ass who are so happy about the 9K…
1st its split into installment over a peroid of 10 years(IIRC)
2nd its deposited into your CPF, so u have no say of how u can use it
3nd its further split into various account within your cpf
4th out of all the 3 factors above, what do you get…. “Nothing”
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Got money take already la, who care whether it is CPF or crash
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After Elections will GST be raised to help the NSmen? and Ministerial pay rise to reward themselves for such a brilliant idea?
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National service is to establish a deterrent force – we being a small nation surrounded by larger ones. Has it proven useful and would we have been invaded if we did not have our citizen army? No one truly knows but I’d like to think that I contributed to the independence of our nation. But, to me, this is just an excuse to give money out.
The gahmen knows that locals are unhappy about the FTs taking jobs, assisting to push up the prices of housing, etc. AND elections are on their way… so this issue helps divert the topics of unhappiness to another less well-thought topic to help in the up coming elections. All this payouts sound familiar before elections, doesn’t it?
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take home la…9K.. please… 1 big 1 small 4D = 5K. It is better than 4D. Fall from sky.
Even though u “PHUI CHOW NUA” on this 9K, yet u got to serve!!!!
No fish prawn also can la… better to have nothing. Am I right?
Singapore’s / FT’s kids are being taught to be Kia Su & Kia C since 18 months.
(U could be one of them too!)
FT’s 2nd generation will trap and serve NS too in future!
Do not waste time to bark on FT.
Their kids will feel the “joys’ soon in future.
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Correct me if I am wrong, I was flipping the tv channel just when PM Lee announced the $9,000 grant to NSmen amd heard him saying something to the effect, ‘ $9,000 will be in CPF account, not cash so that NSmen cannot spend it all on beer”.
I might be dreaming, but I felt so insulted hearing that. They trust us with a rifle and live bullets but they don’t trust how we spend our money.
Like many who commented, money in CPF account is as good as nothing. I am ready to pay the government double of $9,000 for them to stop disrupting my life.
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John: August 31, 2010 at 2:52 pm
le knn bo nao. (you knn no brain). give u 9k. just raise 9k on selling price all across the board for new flats lah. net effect, still gain lah.
on resales flats, new ns men have to wait long long b4 they accumulate enough to even consider resale flats & private properties and on average more than half the nos. of any cohort for garment to have a net loss. for any private properties, 7% built gst on sgd600,000/- (assuming min price) is already sgd42,000/-.
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we sacrifice our lives, time, women folks and economic pursue for our foreign residence,
and our pm asked as to welcome them, take our jobs and marry our local girls,
is this all fair
yes it is
truly i believe in it for today because
survival of the fittest, what does SIngapore have?
there is no concrete opposition to the policies except for rumbles in the background
it takes two hands to clap
you cant say if we take a strong stand we will be punished
then it become your wants and not your needs anymore
if your daughter is going to be raped and murder will you not sacrifice all you have to save her
therefore as of today, the “complains” are no more of wants rather than needs
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@Dissappointed TR:
When I was small, I was taught country before home.
Without country, there will be no home.
How can u said we wasted our time in serving NS
U are not protecting yr country,U are protecting PAP and immigrant or FTs or PR in this tiny red dot.
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picknose, blame your sister, aunty or yourself if singapore girl wanto marry foreign guy. not the government. if not you get a foreign ‘talent’ bride from swiss or japan?
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@I Love Singapore
“so sad to see so many people here equate $ with NS. we should not, serving our country is priceless – is
our duty and honor that should not expect return.”
Try telling that to the “leaders” of this city – not country anymore. Please start with the Prata Man. Did you not know that throwing money at problems and everything can equate to money is the national agenda.
No one single member of the Cabinet (not the one in the kitchen) came out to say that they are already well compensated many times over.
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I remember Singaporeans grumbling when the goverment announced the “baby bonus” some years ago. Some said that it is not enough while others say that it is degrading to think that couples will decide to have babies for money. Sounds familiar?
As I read the postings on TR, I am reminded of two sayings:
“The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth”.
“When I was 14 I thought that my father was a fool. When I was 40 I realised that the old man has matured”
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****picknose:
August 31, 2010 at 3:43 pm there is no concrete opposition to the policies except for rumbles in the background****
i thought you mentioned in another tread of giving someone a chance.
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Lucian Teo:
August 31, 2010 at 6:13 am
Did the PAP compensate our brothers who died for NS Service.
do you think that The PAP should or should not compensate them.
do you agree that their parents were sad when their sons died for NS Service.
If their parents are compensated would you say “making you no different from the mercenary stereotype this site conveniently labels on all immigrants”
Can I pay PM Lee S$9000 to exempt my son from NS Service!
The citizens of Singapore must do NS Service to protect the Singapore.
Why the new citizens are exempt from NS Service without making any contributions to Singapore yet and my sons must do the NS Service.
My sons are too young to make any contributions to Singapore yet but his father, his grandfather and his great grandfather have already made contributions to this country while the families of the new citizens have done nothing.
PM Lee said that the old citizens and the new citizens are the same. All are immigrants from China and India so we should put our hands on theirs.
Do you think this is fair to the old citizens.
No such political system exist in this world including North Korea and Burma.
Please do not always blame the PAP. We,the citizens also should be blamed for blindly supporting the PAP for the past 50 years.
I hope It is not to late to wake up every citizen to save our country from disappearing but it shell be a very hard work.
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Excuse me, the term is NATIONAL SERVICE not part time work. The fact that you are given a 9k bonus is well a BONUS. You serve your COUNTRY. You protect it. You do it because you have pride and you believe that you need to protect your country. Why do I need to be bitter about foreigners not doing NS? It’s my country and I shall defend it. Have some class lah, no need to whine. And to parents who offer 9k to exempt their sons from NS, you obviously have no idea about the concept of National Service.
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Garrett, you mentioned of a more global perspective, i.e. you called to phase off mandatory conscription. In your perspective, you feel that regional terrorist threats that Singapore faced during the past years were insignificant to have a deterrent force. In a nutshell, you probably feel that there isn’t any risk that probably require Singapore to have its own army. How naive can it get?
It’s akin to asking you to leave your doors unlocked, who will want to break into your house anyway? But will you? You claimed that “majority” of Singaporeans felt NS is a waste of time and you could have better spent the 2.5 years on getting a better life. Just because you had a negative NS experience does not indicate that everyone felt the same way.
The commenters here lamented on the fact that NS-men wasted their lives, I would love to see them doing something significant now. If living in Singapore is really a chore and warrants so much dissent everytime the government announces something, why not we just pack up and go? Live in glamourous cities in Europe or the States.
If it’s about being so global, why don’t we just revoke our citizenship and leave? It will be easy eh? But no, we have too much to lose, our family, our friends and our careers. Wouldn’t all these be reasons significant for us to enlist and to protect and fight for?
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Why 9,000 and not 8,000 or 10,000?
9,000 co-incidentally sounds somewhat like “descendant of dogs” in Hokkien (kow cheng)
Could this is done on purpose to humiliate Singaporeans further?
Talk so much cock for what just VOTE THEM OUT lah……..HUAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just bear in mind as long as PAP survive, the citizens will die. Why vote someone that gives you so much STRESS? YYYYYYYY
ps To all New Singaporeans,
don’t be happy yet your time will come soon. Think about it carefully before you vote.
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PR: close to full citizen benefits, withdraw ALL cpf upon leaving the country
Converted Citizens: full citizen benfits, possible cpf withdrawal due to contirbution at later stage in life and hence less money in.
Local Female Citizens: full citizen benfits, possible cpf withdrawal min sum of $1 peanut dollar, fighting for jobs with PRs & Convert citizens.
Local Male Citizens: full citizen benfits, possible cpf withdrawal min sum of $1 peanut dollar, 2-2.5 years of national service, 10-13 years annual reservist & ippt, possible cpf withdrawal min sum of $1 peanut dollar, fighting for jobs with PRs, Convert citizens and local female citizens.
C’mon guys, does not the above make the category “Local Male Citizens” as favoured citizens? They have the most benefits this country can give and top it off with an added 9000 to the cpf. We are proud to be disadvantaged male citizens! I’ll vote in the PAP every election!
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“If anyone think that $9K is peanuts, why not give $9K to every FT that migrate to Singapore?”
Actually the gov already gives some of them allowance every month to cover basic necessities. I rented out a flat to 2 indian engineers, both of them had their monthly rent and other stuff paid for by the gov. Locals don’t get the same benefits huh?
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Engineering jobs were also provided, although they had to sign contract but when the pay is good and everything is taken care of, what’s there to lose? But at whose expense?
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I do not see NS as a waste of my time. I had learnt a lot during my NS, key thing is how to be independent. Comparing myself with a Matlander who did not serve NS. When I left SG for my studies, I left without turning back. But more than a few Matlanders male that I know of, are still crying because they missed their mothers! Even the C&R and unarmed combat came in useful when someone tried to break into my home. And for that, I am thankful for the things I learnt in NS.
As a citizen, I had done my duty serving NS. I do not need the S$9000, cash or otherwise. My father had served it, so will I. My issue is not with the country, but the government of the day (today). Instead of making me feel like I am serving for the country, as a valued citizen, I (and I am sure most of you will agree) am made to feel like a third class citizen compared to the FTs, FWs and PRs. That is what made it not worth it anymore. It is no longer worth it to be loyal to the country because as the Old Man had said, “PAP = SG”, which is why I become a “quitter”.
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The writer did not calculate the cost for the government while educating/training/rearing the Singaporean … that may result in millions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ …………….?????
On the other hand, Governemnt don’t have to spend a cent on the Foreign Talent. Its like you get a Fruit Tree just at the right time to reap the fruits for the rest of life. While other governments have spent their forthune in educating/training the person and Singapore benefits wholesale.
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Ya, dun insult me please, I’m gonna vote you out soon
http://votepapout.wordpress.com/
VOTE PAP OUT!
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this picknose says one thing in one forum,then say naother in another forum here.
this guy is daft and probably just a PAPy mole trying to be funny.
i would ignore him altogether.i mean it.
no more time to waste on clowns like you.
at least some others who are pro-pap are more consisitent.
i hate hypocrites and lairs ,enough form those minstrels.
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MINDEF unveils details of NS recognition award
THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS.
3rd sergeants & above will get $3500 (virtual money) for each payment. Lower ranks get $3000.
In a nutshell:-
After 20 months NSF, you get $3K/$3.5K into your PSEA. Those who already ROD/ORD too bad for you??
After 3 high-key ICTs or 5 ICTs, you get the second $3K/$3.5K into your CPF (split into OA, SA and Medisave as per normal). So only 66% can use for housing, the rest locked up in Special A/c and Medisave.
After complete reservist and move to MR, then you get the final $3K/$3.5K into your CPF. Same thing, split into OA, SA and Medisave.
NO MENTION AT ALL IF THIS IS RETROSPECTIVE. SO I GUESS ALL NSMEN WHO ALREADY PAST THOSE “MILESTONES” ARE SOL!
Bottomline? As I mentioned before, the sums of virtual money is practically useless for REAL LIFE concerns. Extremely high costs of HDB, ever-rising costs of tertiary education and never-ending competition with cheaper & younger foreigners makes the amounts an insult. On top of everything we have 2 Million army of foreigners sitting on our heads and making a mockery of NS.
Rather pathetic as pre-election sweetener — in fact the effect will be to make more true-blue sinkies more du-lan than ever.
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Election lai leow = Ang Pao leow + Economic up leow + More HDB flats coming leow.
Election over leow = Bus fare increase leow + Electricity/Water bill increase leow + HDB flat price increase leow + GST increase leow + Road Tax increase leow + Hospital charge increase leow + CEO/ERP increase leow + Min. CPF withdrawal ceiling up leow……… (PAY BACK TIME MAN!
This cycle has been repeating for many many time already.
I am very scare every time the government give Ang Pao. We always have to pay back many many times more in no time. Very Jialat Jialat.
Wait and see lah.
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Hey, I’m in my 40s and have long served and sacrified for NS. I dont think I am eligible for this so call 9K award.
The award is only for Singaporeans serving NS now, how about us? We forgotten? Arent our service not service, arent our sacrifice not sacrifice? what an unfair stupid recognition award. @##$$%
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Basically a cooling stage, and an obvious bait for “clueless sg people” to recognise that the govt is still “looking after their well being”
We all have known for a fact that no sum of money, can buy the amount of time you lost in terms of that 2 and a half years, compulsory service to the nation. Fts came without liability to serve NS. Can the govt make them serve NS when they become PR or citizen? to compensate the loss time?
Fact: Sg needs guys to defend the nation
Question: where, or what, has the govt done for our recognition?
$9k, be it or not, is a lot of money to some of us. But regarding to going into funds (ie post-secondary school or CPF) that arent mobile, is it really the best interest of us? Is CPF gonna feed me with bread when I dont have a job, cause everything has been grabbed by FTs? For me, Mr Lee Hsien Long sir, would like some more Flexibility in that 9k, rather than freezing it in my CPF account.
And please, if you are giving, give it to us willingly. Not taking it out from your right pocket, showing it infront of us, before shuffing it into your left pocket.
God bless Singapore
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Hi,
New citizens is also Singapore Citizens. Do they have to serve their country like the old citizen?
“to parents who offer 9k to exempt their sons from NS, you obviously have no idea about the concept of National Service.
The new citizens did not pay a cent to exempt themselves from
National Service.
Can you tell us what is the idea of this.
Singapore is a nation with 2 sets of law. One for the old citizens
and another set for new citizens.
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//Raynor: August 31, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Just because you had a negative NS experience does not indicate that everyone felt the same way.//
then surely this indication can be best measured if ns is not made compulsory and is completely voluntary. no ?
//If living in Singapore is really a chore and warrants so much dissent everytime the government announces something, why not we just pack up and go?//
the garment may be a chore. and garment can be changed. and y should we be leaving. if u or your master do not like the dissent. y not u and your master just bug off.
//If it’s about being so global, why don’t we just revoke our citizenship and leave?//
if it is so global and everyone can just come and go and mix like rojak, then y still need ns to protect the country leh.
apparently, u have conveniently forgotten the so-called global is only good on the economic front but not on the political end where ur master (like any ruling elites in the world) wants the reap the benefits from managing the economic pie but not wanting to let go off the political power of managing this economic pie, if u know what i mean. with your raynor intelligence, you would know y.
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WHAT A JOKE!!
$9000 in CPF would only be worth peanuts 30-40 years down the road! PM Lee never heard of inflation meh?! Or he thinks S’poreans are so naive that they’ve never heard of inflation?! C’mon… you’re a joker.
So smart of you PM Lee to think of this “reward”.
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@ Lucien Teo.
Please, do get in the trench in front of me, to do you patriotic duty and I will gladly help you die for your masters.
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We do not grill or burn the PIG now. We need slaughter yeah.
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To all the Mind-blinded sheep who still spout the party line that NS is necessary for the defence of the Nation. WAKE UP!
If it was truly National Defence that the PAP was concerned about, NS would have been scrapped eons ago and replaced with a professional army. Do the Maths. A professional fighting force 1/3 the size of the standing SAF would still in all likelihood possess at least twice the combat power, if not more, and still be budget neutral.
The ONLY reason that NS exists is to serve as a means of regime control. To provide a breeding ground for the PAP’s eunuchs. And to provide a ready sink for the GLC linked companies such as SFI, ST, etc etc etc etc.
Get real. Stop using National Defence as a justification for NS.
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To Raynor:
Typical slippery slope argument. Oh if we have no NS, will attack us, rape our wives, , etc.
Let’s examine the facts, what makes you think that Singapore in its current situation can stop a determined terrorist when we can’t even stop a limping man from escaping prison?
Next problem with your argument is that a conscript army is only good for protecting against traditional military aggressors not from terrorist attacks. Nobody is going to invade the Red Dot, but terrorist may choose to bomb the Parliament House. A conscript army of a few hundred thousand is not going to help in the second case.
So your point if there was any is nonsensical.
To address your question of leaving the Red Dot, what makes you think that people have not done it and that people are not already doing it?
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@Lucian Teo
Well, you may be trying to show that you are a loyal Dog to your Master.(‘Pot’calling ‘Kettle’ black)Please speak for yourself,not the rest of the singaporeans/males! and how do you know that the rest did not share his point of view?
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I serve my NS sorely for the sake of my family and friends. Not for some useless bloodsucking politician or some shameless FT/PR. The 9K???Please lah!don’t insult me lah!!U want to buy me for 9K??Up yours man!!!
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Yes, New citizens…you have yet to see more…stay tune ..and…REGRET later !
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New citizen do not have to do NS.
This fact alone warrants the scrapping of NS,especially if the Ftrash was on tax funded scholarship and then become citizen.
Totally free ride.$9,000,000 also will not right the situation.
What is wrong cannot be made right with money.
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No $9,000 for all NSmen.
Those who ORD already is $6000 maximum.
Those who have no reservist is $0 maximum.
Check out the latest update:
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/resources/faqs/nsra.html
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Thanks but no thanks. I would much rather have women Israeli soldiers than some 98 pound weaklings and part time wannabes in the guise of “protecting” me and my family.
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If I give you 9k, would you do my NS for me?
Besides since when are laws, or regulations, or in this case, the 9k being passed by people who really requires them or bounded by it? For any moderately successful professional, do you really think this amount will help defray living expenses in any way especially since we fail to include the effects of compounded inflation?
I think it would be better off if they had never mention about the 9k.
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Why do i get the feeling that the minimum cpf threshold will increase by 9K as well?
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I do think some forumer here is entittled to be penny pinching with our government. This how the government works,count every right down god damn cents with the citizens.It works both ways. If our governmment had being less calculative,things wouldn’t have turn out this way,the 9k so call “award” will be greeted with more cheers than jeers.
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The PAP multiple millionaires have totally lost touch with the ground. They continue to live their high life, oblivious of the plight of ordinary Singaporeans. The next elections will be our nLY chance to vie many of them out. Thereafter we would be outnumbered by the new citizens brought in by PAP
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I propose NS from 2 years cut to one year for citizens, the remaining one year the FTs must serve.
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Isn’t serving NS is to protect our soverignity , our land.
Then sell us back a HDB flat at the cost of construction, not factoring in the price of land.
Because Singaporean males deserves at least that much. Our males give our time, forced or otherwise, but then land is “sold” back to us at market price.
That is why the HDB is increasing in value for new flats. And not only that , resale value of the flat is factored in.
9k is not much. But thank you away , but much much more can be done.
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The point is: CPF is not really money(liquid money). It is not a real pension scheme.
CPF is hidden taxation to eat into your disposable income. The PAP govt likes to say SG has one of the lowest taxation rates in the world, right? It didn’t mention CPF.
And of course, with the low taxes comes low/minimal welfare. Privatising profits, socialising costs. This is fascism, plain and simple.
Therefore, $9000 credited into the CPF account = a non-event, much ado about nothing. Even a few hundred dollars cash which you can touch, feel, spend is worth much more than CPF faux-money.
Also, it’s about vote-buying and mass placating just before the elections. The property market cooling measures are to placate first-time home buyers. The $9k of invisible CPF money is to placate NSmen. The issue that links these two together is the indiscriminate influx of foreigners into Singapore.
Notice the ‘citizens first’ theme kept being repeated during the rally speech.
There is a reason for that… the ground is not sweet, not at all.
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NSMEN who have already completed their whole ICT cycle before 30 AUG 10 will received $0. $9000 only benefit NSF who are serving their 2 years NS (Believed some of the Ministers’ sons will benefit from it???). So people who never served NS and yet sprouting scrap can just shut up.
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As NSmen, as male singapore citizens , we are to served in NS. And why do we , or should we serve NS. It is to protect our soverignity , our land from external parties.
Issue 1). We protect the land. Yet instead of land “given” to us free. We are “sold” land at market rate, when we purchase a HDB .Worse still new flats are pegged at resale level.Isn’t it for long term occupancy? But then Minister mah , commented . A buyer today is a seller tommorrow? Doesn’t it sounds contridictory? Kindly do explain this to the daft me.
I am not asking for land free or even a HDB free. I am asking at least for HDB to be sold to us young sinaporeans at cost of building the flat just like in the past. I am sure we won’t mind if they add a small premium of a few thousand for all the work they put in. We will be at least as well off as our parents years ago when they first purchase their flats.
Issue 2) Female in NS. Why not. I am not asking our wifes and mums to carry guns , chiong suah and pang Jiu in the field for 2.5 years. But at least get them to learn how to do first aid properly , and have a first aid refresher course every year till 40 or something like that lah or learn how to work the extinguisher.
Learning how to handle the rifle is also a few days course only right. Surely a few more ranges can be built. If all the males kena killed then how? The Yang female warriors got to come out to fight. But they don’t even know how to handle the m16. Fight what fight?
FTs or PRs in NS. Yes it’s a huge admin problem. May not be feasible, but surely they can contribute in some ways. Do some compulsory social service or whatever. It benefits the poor and also the nation.
Issue 3)Would we have less growth and become less competitive with top notch FTs leaving? Definitely.
But will we suffer big time and cease to exist as a nation? Definitely not? I believer the locals have enough talent , to run the show in 2010 , even if all top notch FTs leave. We are not in the 1950s to the 1960s anymore.
So dear top notch FTs , we appreciate your presence, but don’t even try to overrate yourselves or think yourself better than us.
If Singapore is such a wonderful place to live in then why use not stay on? Why aspire move on to Canada after Singapore. That being said. Singapore is only a stepping stone to a better life overseas.
Back to the issue. 9k isn’t much , it’s not even enough to be referred to as peanuts. Much much more can be done . But thank you Dear Ministers anyway .
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duty honor country… what loads of bullshit… i dun believe in it and i will never believe in it… the only thing i ever believe is what Diogenes says, ” I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world.” To our gahmen, to server the country is to serve them, bulls to them… therefore i will never believe in duty, honor, country. never were we once taken care, rather taken advantage. we will be the world no. 1 in everything, highest standard living, highest paying politician, dumbest native citizens, fastest inflation than any other part of the world, lowest paying salary for native citizens, highest payroll for non-native citizens, etc… you guys name it and we will definitely be there…
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My boss dump Local resumes into the trash.
I become the minority in my company, as felt so living alone in a foreign land when I take the transport back home every day.
Please save me and yourself..
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Wah lao ey,
at least now they are giving something out mah…. previously not a single shit. All those that feel that it’s an insult then write-in to CPF board to say you don’t want lor… Don’t be insulted mah…
If enough pple write-in to say they don’t want then maybe the amount would be bumped to SGD$9250 or something for the rest of us.
Do it; write-in; my honourable fellow NS men…
Temasek Review should start an online campaign for that…
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Heh guy grow up lah.. I sign on wasted more years but my income now better than some of my peers. Your calculation is totally wrong. How can the difference be accumulative. It should be only the 2.5 years lah.. You know maths or not… No wonder you complain coz you got no brain.. Even if you come from a local U. Don’t just sit there cry and whine.
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i dun feel insult, those tat do likely have low self esteem.
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@Agent Smith:
August 31, 2010 at 9:27 am
“If i cough up $9000 to the government not to serve NS will the government accept?”
Don’t need to cough up S9000 bucks what… Everybody knows that you just declare gay then will be excused liao mah.
Or if you’re passionate about your heterosexuality; then just spend around $4500 to see a specialist to declare you mentally retarded lah; also excuse what like that…
Or again, spend $$$ to get mental health specialist to declare that you’re xiao lor; again excuse liao mah…
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Every Singaporeans who feels like a foreigner in their own country has a part to play in voting for change.
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Read the details released by Mindef.
Amusing, isn’t it? Government policy is not retroactive. If you missed it, TOO BAD FOR YOU. Anyway, you have already benefitted.
You have ALREADY BENEFITTED, but not a word or example on how you benefitted.
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timid:
August 31, 2010 at 10:50 pm
“My boss dump Local resumes into the trash”
Nothing unusual. In 1999 while working in a MNC, I was the only local in the pool of project managers and there was only a token Singaporean technician. The two of us were eventually replaced by foreign workers in 2001. Project management and technicians are roles that could be easily filled by local PMETs. And when I asked the MP Ong Ah Heng for assistance, he said I am good enough to work as a cleaner. Luckily I knew better. I am now working overseas. The Singaporean technician left SIN as well.
Interestingly, one of my colleague in the MNC decided to become a Singapore citizen against my advice. He subsequently got to experience the same issues we had, eg. he was unable to find work when he was laid off in his 40s. He eventually left SIN with his family with the parting words “I had wasted 10 years of my life in SIN.”
Is SIN getting ‘better, betterer, and betterest’? I don’t think so. So long SIN, I quit.
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Firstly, i would like to comment on your logic(or apparent lack of it) that you want us to believe. You forgot about the minimum pay of at least $400 that army recruits get, so if you factor that into the amount of money we actually get over the 2 years, it is actually alot higher than a maids. I cannot ignore just a glaring flaw in logic when you are saying that we are worth less than maids, and expect us to buy that.
Secondly we didn’t have any monetary compliment to start with, now that we have some, you either take it or leave it -_-. If you were complaining about how PM Lee placed a monetary value on your sense of duty for Singapore, i would admire you somewhat for your pride in what you do. But your issue here is that it is not enough and simply complaining about how you wasted your 2 years in NS and how much you should be compensated for it.
We are just NS recruits newly recruited into the army, the $9000 is already a very good compliment for us, did you think that you are a high ranking officer in the army who deserves a sky high pay? My point is, appreciate what we got, now that we got it.
Thirdly, if you are more capable than ‘foreign talents’, then wouldn’t your pay rise higher than theirs? If you feel like you wasted your time in army, that is because you chose to waste your 2 years. You are a Singaporean Citizen and you have no choice but to go the army, and then you have 2 choices when you enter the army : Complain that you wasted your 2 years or make something out of it. Hello? develop your leadership skills? interpersonal skills?
Also, if you don’t like NS there are plenty of things you can do to avoid it other than to complain. Go immigrate? then you can go become ‘foreign talent’ in other countries. Yawn, i think i have said enough.
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Fire:
August 31, 2010 at 10:49 pm
if you are so strong in your opinion
then why did you serve NS
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timid:
August 31, 2010 at 10:50 pm
My boss dump Local resumes into the trash.
I become the minority in my company,…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
hi timid,
you and many others in other companies,big and small,are merely reflecting a microcosm of what;s going to happen to the whole poulace if this SON OF THE FATHER keeps hyping on FTs.
lim boon heng might also want to know that these FTs are bringing in not only their wives and kids,but also their grandparents.
so much for ageing population consideration of FT policy.
The MIWs need to be reminded that Singapore was not built by them-in case they think so-but by all of us,tru blu sinkies and our forefathers.
we have our rigths and dignity as born and bred citizens and the govt should not just take these away from us and throw them to some aliens as the americans-the most OPEN-DOOR nation-would like to clal these foreigners.
maju-lah singapore,maju-lah singaporeans!
we must never be dispalced as the sons and daughters of Singapore even if we have been wrongly dispalced form our jobs by the rash FT POLICY and betrayed by our local bosses.
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why should we reject the free monies?
if government permits, i dun mind donating that monies to improve on the quality of the opposition parties so they can focus on matching the reigning party intellectually.
sadly, a rally that’s high on expectations delivers little. it seems the government prefers to channel all the dollars and cents to fireworks.
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I just cannot believe that those white scum are getting more stupid, or the people getting smarter to see thru their ruse. $9K is really nothing consider the fact that housing had inflated more than 70K on average, tuition fee also raised, and cost of living are still rising. What can 9K do? Not much really.
But it draw a divide between those who got it and those who have not. Why some NSmen got it where other do not? For my case, my unit did the 10 year cycle w/o any deferment and got MR(military reserve) 3 years ago. Average age was only 30+. Then there are those who kept deferring the reservist till mid 30 and still got 5 more year not clear. By giving this “incentive”, those still staying should got it while many who completed dutifully are being penalize. Where is the logic? white scum and their pea brain at their stupidity shown again…
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Why blame new citizens maybe we should look into professional army. No more NS, we just employ Gurkas or pay moe $$ for males who are more combat active to be employed. So that others who prefer to study can go study, people who want to work can build their career and people who want to idle can stay home and play PSP, PS3
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NS is never about protecting the sovereignty of Singapore. Remember, the % of national budget spent on national defence is an overkill for Singapore. Singapore is not Israel, Taiwan or South Korea.
Don’t forget the huge amounts of good land SAF camps and facilities are sitting on.
Conscription serves a few purposes:
1) Social control of males at their peak/impressionable years.
2) Melding conscription into the national psyche, extolling it as a rite of passage or national ritual. This purpose is purely propaganda.
3) Providing business and employment for GLCs eg. SFI(food), ST Logistics (logistics, e-mart), Chartered Industries(arms and ammo). Don’t forget those associated civilian contractors (eg. you can see them and their vehicles during field camps)
4) A ready pool of cheap, exploitable labour. Remember the YOG? Remember the NDP? Who packed those goodie bags?
All in all, I am grateful for my NS experience – it has opened my eyes to the crap that’s going on inside, and of how incompetent SAF is as an organization. My eyes would not have been opened without serving NS.
Certainly there were some fond memories, but the overall impression is not good, and frankly, on hindsight it is a waste of time sponsored by taxpayer’s money. ＷＡＹＡＮＧ
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@PR CITIZEN:
August 31, 2010 at 9:44 am
These stupid & idiot PRs again! Should be flushed into the toilet for good. Any volunteers to kick their arse!!!
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Seriously? FTs can go home for all i care. We only need foreign workers, not foreign talents. Because, the so-called foreign talents are loads of crap. We have alot of local talents that are way better than the ‘highly-sought-after’ foreign talents. Singapore will do fine without the FTs. Anytime. =)
So PR CITIZEN, we need you. Yes, because you are highly talented in laying the bricks and cleaning the drains. Else, you are really not needed here. Really. =)
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Gurkas is a good choice. why force us to serve ns?
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To: Tan Wee Teck
Your argument is “No fish, prawn also can” type, which is fine. Since we have no choice, whatever they throw as us, just grab lor. If can, grab happily. Nothing wrong with that.
However, I think what most people are trying to achieve here is to exercise our right to influence policies and fight for what we think is fair.
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So happy to get $9000.
Thanks so much to PM Lee.
The money is very useful. The govt is so generous.
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Your calculations are wrong, and do not make sense.
Also, your arguments are pretty weak without concrete justification. I am appalled at how this post attracted so many comments.
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You, sir, are just a whiner and sulking like a five year old girl. Your belief that money is a true representation of life and time – and your glee at breaking down everything according to the dollar – makes me feel ashamed on behalf of the university which you graduated from. And all the other schools you were educated in.
You’ve just graduated. Why not get a real job, experience life, gain some wisdom before getting sucked into the anti-PAP rhetoric like a blind fool?
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First time I’ve commented here, so imagine my surprise when I saw my comment was awaiting moderation!!
I thought you guys don’t censor anything? Hm?
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1. The insult is in throwing the money to buy votes from the NSMen who are presently active as they are vulnerable to negative feeling of having to serve unlike the new foreign-born citizens.
2. Secondly giving the amount in 3 tranches and not outright cash into their account but in CPF/
3. This offer is supposed to make NSMen happy and for the new cohort due to serve NS soon, before the coming general elections.
4. PAP is very calculative and their attitude towards citizens are very callous.
5. NSMen who are native Singaporeans are treated very shabbily and paid very low salaries for the loss of 2.5 years active and 10 years reserve service.
6. Should war break out, they will be the first to be shipped to the front to engage the enemy and defend the country, followed by those reservists who are on recall list, and lastly those who are no longer active.
7. We NSMen present and older ones will lay our lives down for the sake of the nation.
8. For 9K and past “benefits” the treatment given by the PAP Government is pretty mean.
9. We never did ask for compensation, but equitable contributions from those who wants to take up Singapore citizenship.
10. If PAP is sincere and fair towards Singaporeans who are paying a price as their contribution for being a citizen of the country, they should not allow new citizens to take a stake in this country without any sacrifice.
11. If PAP is sincere that the leaders are also sacrificing themselves for Singapore, they should not reward themselves millions in salary and pay NSMen 9K.
12. We, the citizens of Singapore,
pledge ourselves as one united people,
regardless of race, language or religion,
to build a democratic society
based on justice and equality
so as to achieve happiness, prosperity and
progress for our nation.
13. We build the nation what it is today with our sweat and tears, as we pledge ourselves to be one united people, yet our leaders have torn our people by importing immigrants from mostly 3rd world nations. These immigrants have cultural differences and we, Singaporeans are feeling uneasy and uncomfortable with so many of them.
14. The PAP Government need to go to the ground and understand their people’s problems, because, from the PM’s NDR speech and it’s content, this is not what we want.
15. I ask all Singaporeans who feel as I do to write in and express your opinions.
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Overall, Singapore MALE citizen is NS slave to government and his FT pets.
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Taxing the father to pay the son..
Similar to “robbing Peter to pay Paul.”
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Taiwan will end military conscription next year 2011.
All new in-takes will be volunteers..
So, the above calculations and comparison table is “REAL.”
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I don’t think the issue here is that 9k is too little. It was never about the amount being too little, it’s more of weighing the time you spent in NS and the opportunities that you lose against the 9k.
Besides, the money isn’t really a lot (in 20 years time, that 9k probably worth lesser than half its current value) considering that you only will get to see them at an extreme old age.
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Guys, forget reasoning with idiots. Just do what they practice – policies are NOT RETROACTIVE. Past deeds are not considered in present/future considerations.
.
Meaning the next time someone says: “Look what good the garhem has done for you in the past”, or “From fishing village to First World”, we say: “Sorry, not counted! Garhem already benefitted from the various taxes we have paid before.”
.
Well done A/P Koo Tsai Kee on explaining the National Service Recognition Award. That is what I call a MORON. Didn’t anyone noticed how uncomfortable he was making that statement?
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Funny isn’t it ” NS boys welcomes $9K “…surely lah !, (For now)..anyway “Not Happy” oso cannot “voiced” grievances rite ??…especially so when recently even an NSR was “called up for commenting on SPF”……this is really a joke ! Silence of the Lamb !
Welcome to sg.
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/Tan Wee Teck: August 31, 2010 at 11:26 pm
Yawn, i think i have said enough./
i thought you were never going to end your grandmother story.
“Hello? develop your leadership skills? interpersonal skills?”
maybe foreigners could do it better without the ns nonsense.
“if you are more capable than ‘foreign talents’, then wouldn’t your pay rise higher than theirs”
ask those in the family business (or national family business). affinity & timing my friend or even structural. y doesn’t your company replace u immediately with the many readily available much-more-talented-than-you professionals who may have gotten retrenched recently in the market.
ask the many malaysians y they can’t possibly do as good as what they could do in their country if talent is the only defining factor loh.
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@Tan Wee Teck: go read all the details, for all of us done with NS, have no PSEA, we will most probably get NOTHING. i already know where my vote will go.
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9000 is not intended to be paid out.
9000 implies that the minimum sum will be increased by more than 9000 because the FV is higher after interest.
Proof:
9000 is basically paid out to those who have not completed NS. All who did, will be 40++ which in about 15 years time will become 55 to take out the monies.
LHL never intended to pay out the real monies. It is just a smoke screen.
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//You forgot about the minimum pay of at least $400 that army recruits get, so if you factor that into the amount of money we actually get over the 2 years, it is actually alot higher than a maids//
then y not hire maids to serve in our army instead so that we will free up young men to start working & contributing more economically right ? comparative advantage right !!!!
don’t try to give gong gong explanation here. ok.
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/Faber Castell: August 31, 2010 at 11:12 pm
i dun feel insult, those tat do likely have low self esteem./
that is good. cos we need people like you to keep the sparring opportunities alive & exciting.
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My dear sir, this is election coffeemoney, don’t be so naive.
Many local boys, serving NS is at tender loving age. The young have lots of energy but no money, and the old have money but no energy, so who needs more of $$$.
The young cannot think,wisely, reason why they are called “DAFT” as mm said.You need to cultivate the young, reason why propaganda is directed at them now, look around you, media, national t.v.,movies, etc, etc.
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Hi anyone ever wonder why when we sold our home we have to return back CPF with ACCRUED INTEREST into our orinary acct thus reducing net proceeds? Think about it, yes we all know that CPF is used for the purpose of purchasing a house. If it is not use we will be able to earn 2.5% interest per annum having our $ stored in our ordinary acct. But why we are still ask to pay for our own interest? take for example u buy a flat costing $400000 now and uses CPF to finance the home and after 30 yrs when u decided to sell for retirement how much cash proceeds will I be able to get back? I have a 3 rm flat which I bought for $250000 about 3 years ago and the house was fully paid using my wife and my CPF. We were shock that if we were to sell our house now I would have to put back around $270000 back into my CPF. Thats almost $20k interest of my own $.!!! Yes I can understand that interest can be earn when $ are left in the ordinary acct. But when the $ in CPF is used for purchasing a home, why is interest still chargeable at the expense of owners?
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I come from a country that also require me to serve compulsory military service. I pity the Singapore government because the citizens here are so unappreciatve of the award and mocking fun at it. Singaporeans really take for granted is their right to demand for everything. It is really true that the country is full of spoilt brats who always cry for their mothers when things go wrong. That’s why I understand the government here needs foreigners otherwise you think the government can depend on a country of cry babies??
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The $9 is the carrot, and do you know what is the stick. They will quietly increase the bills and cost of living will to up. For the PAP, nothing is a “free lunch”. We will never use any part of that money to pay for our bills.
ddd – there is nothing much to take out from our CPF, tell me how percent of us can retire comfortable, gone are the days. Vote the PAP out at the coming election, there is nothing to talk about or to give feedback.
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I agree with Gripen. Singaporeans even need their mother to send them to army camps. They cry when they cannot go out of camps during free time. When they suffer inside camps, they cry to their mothers. They need parents to pick them outside camps. Some dun even fire a single bullet in their whole army life. When they can pretend to be sick, they try all avenues to do so. When they can downgrade, they try to do so.
Now they talk big and protest $9000 is too little for the effort??
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I laughed when I see the table that Singaporeans deserved $150000 for d0ing NS. Come one lah, everyone just wayang inside for 2 years and have fun for the next 10 years. When we can keng, we keng. We hope for the time we can downgrade and serve as clerks. Everyone want to be CMPB clerk or drivers.
So dun act like a hero and say u deserved $150000!!
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All of u are missing the main problem. $$$ cant solve the problem or appease any1. The main problem lies in NS itself. Do we really need 2 yrs to train up to be a soldier? The ans is no, for officers the max is only 1 yr training while the 2nd yr NSFs r just working for cheap labor. If you really want to rectify things, cut NS to training only. We as singaporeans have the responsibility to protect our country but do not use us to ease the burden of regulars. We serve NS to learn the skills to fight when the need arises to protect our homeland. Another issue of the 2nd yr in our cheap labor of NS is the giving of extras at will. Another obvious and typical way of regulars abusing it to ease their workload. In conclusion, to erase all these problems, cut the NS to training only if you are really sincere in solving the problem. The re service is another issue though but it is out of topic for this section. And 1 more thing, i strongly disagree with girls serving NS, go figure it yrselves if u dun understand or wait until u r older.
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//Curry: September 1, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Come one lah, everyone just wayang inside for 2 years and have fun for the next 10 years.//
so why bother having ns if it is just wayang for 2 years and having fun for the next 10 years. if it is really so, aren’t we acknowledging it & still encouraging the waste of national resources by having it.
r u saying that our higher talented ones r so blind as not to see it like what you can see it and still continue to come out with this sgd9,000/- carrot.
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When I received the $9000, I will throw into the drain!!
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Garett Goh had not taken in the inflationary rates which will accumulate over next 20 years.
Applying NPV analysis about 1/(1+1.5%)^20 , assuming estimated annual inflation rate of 1.5% the True value is definitely more that S$156k
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Sorry, for a some of u guys, be insulted no longer by this “bribe”.
According to the BT, there is no back payment for the S$9000 for past service. So if you are like me, the hundreds of thousands of male singaporeans who completed your 2.5 year conscription and 10 year reservist already, you get no money, hahaha.
I guess the Gahmen only “recognise” things that have use for them. If you passed your use-by date, Thank U, Goodbye and so sad (…and if you can’t afford to live here, go find yourself a hole to live in Batam in your old age for all I care)…
So since we are clearly not part of the “bribe”, by the author’s logic, should we feel less insulted or more insulted??
If you ask me this is (yet) another big PR disaster for the PM and MINDEF!!
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Guys guys guys! dont you see !
This 9k carrot is not for us Real NS Men, it’s to induce the PR’s children to take up citizenship and do NS!
Ten years down the road they will just increase the amount to 50K! Kill 2 birds with one stone
New loyal citizen, which will vote PAP, for the next 10 to 13 years.
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Its like what they are doing to the OPP with the up gradings!
using our own tax payer’s money to bribe the FTs children to do NS !
How low can you go
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Scrap NS. Make it a voluntary force with proper incentives.
When the incentives are adequate, you will get enough volunteers.
After all, the pop. is now more than 5 million.Plenty of men.
When NS started, pop only less than 2 million.
Many countries doing the above.
Draftees or is it ‘daftees’ always lose in war.Remember Vietnam?
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PR CITIZEN:
August 31, 2010 at 9:44 am
PR like you can give Sinkies a blow job – weather here is a bit too hot out. Don’t waste your “talent”
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In any country, there are bound to be cry babies or even betrayers, quitters like you FT guys, not just Singapore. Oh yes, apple polishers like you too ! Those new shitizens like you who didn’t need to serve NS, shut your bloody assholes ! They stink !
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From “Today” newspaper on Sept the 1st , there are these words when asked about NSmen who have completed their NS duties – (….Those who have done NS have benefited from the peace and prosperity that they’ve helped create,” said Assoc Prof Koo ). Seems not right .
I think those people that have done NS has not benefited from the peace and prosperity but rather it is due to them for their service in NS done that peace and properity is being found in Singapore ! Where is the benefits to these people who has completed and done their NS ? Absolutely zero dollars but rather $9000 is to be given to all all existing NS and future NS who has not finished NS or in NS yet. Is it right ? The sum $9000 will need to be funded somewhere and somehow , right ? So are we those who have finished NS need to pay higher taxes , ERP and outrages higher GST to fund these $9000 to those future NS when we people had completed our NS and not even get a single cent ! Think we are stuipid , is it ? Why should Singapore pay to the future generation when the previous generations that had completed NS did not benefit in dollars term ? Stick to one rule – no payment to all else pay to all to be fair !
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Why pay to Singapore army? Who will foot the bill? Are they dependable in the first place? Is a bunch of young punks wasting their and our time there!! I rather pay to my philipines army!!
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“….we are getting millions $ to serve the country, since you also serving ok as a token …oh no a recognition, then we give you $9K BUT we will keep it for you until your time is up….”
“hehe…$9K also from tax payers…can also buy a vote..why not!….”
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Anyway…. seems the majority of us who have already completed NS ain’t getting the $9K. So ironical… those who have already sweat blood and tears, not getting the money. But those who have yet to do – promised the money. Seems like VOTE BUYING to me!
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To Garrett, precisely, I’m not saying that there isn’t anyone who wishes to leave or there isn’t any indicators of people not leaving. Point is, let those who wishes to leave, leave. There will always be people who will want to come over.
Yes yes, a limping prisoner escaped, and let’s scrap the whole idea of NS. Very well crafted point. LOL. A radical religious extremist will try to attempt to bomb us, since an army cannot help, let’s scrap NS. Nice.
“Conscripted NS is only good for protecting against traditional military aggressors.” Another sweeping statement, no?
If serving NS has caused so much unhappiness, then just leave already. If you aren’t happy about it. Let’s wallow in sadness, or run for politics and scrap NS? No?
The point of this entry is just an attempt to criticise. Talking about time spent wasting. :/
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To Raynor:
Stop twisting my words. I have always believed NS is useless even before the Mas Selamat incident. I brought up the incident as a point to show how a traditional military is not effective in protecting against terrorist attacks. Who are the people most likely to be involved in counter-terrorism operations? Probably intelligence and local civil defense like the police. Do NSMen staff these two departments to a large degree? NO. What do NSMen make up a large proportion of? Primarily footsoldiers. Do footsoldiers have a major role to play in counter-terrorism? NO. The idea of a traditional army being ineffective in counter-terrorism is not just localized to Singapore. The USA for all its military might could not prevent Sept 11. Your the organ between your ears (i.e. the brain) assuming you have one, before claiming that my statement is false.
Not every person age 18 has a choice to leave the country. In fact, those that do often have the decision made for them by their parents. But many even after serving still leave because they don’t want their children to go through the same shit as they did.
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The key point is equality. When a singaporean male enters NS, the odds just begin to stack against his favour. The 9K is an insult to the years spent, the opportunities missed in life. To have a level playing field, have every citizen perform a National Service of one form or another. It does not have to be in the military. It can be in medical support, community service or any social benefit to all.
If the govt was genuine about showing their appreciation for the service to the nation, why not go the whole way? Provide something more substantial – like offering at least a 3-room flat (if you want better, top up the difference). No? I didn’t think so. For all the hyperbole, we are no more than serfs to them.
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The $9000 was more stupid than I thought based on newer reports.
1) Those who completed reservist liability are not entitled to $9000, even though rationally speaking these old guys are the one that has contributed and sacrificed the most. Bravo PAP!
2) $6000 of the $9000 is paid out to CPF in the middle of one’s reservist liability and at the end. So most likely the median sum guys will get (those eligible for the money) is $6000 and not $3000
3) $3000 is paid out to some post-secondary fund (which is meant for funding tertiary studies) for completion of the 2.5 years conscription. How about those who have graduated from a tertiary institution? What on earth are we expected to do with it?
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i think most of you here got it wrong! This NS reward is a bait for those young PR to accept citizenship and serve NS! not for you or me who are local bred! look at the cut off date, only those rod after 29 aug are benefit. i think they are having lesser NS man because local bred young men are getting lesser due to lower birth rate, so they come out with this award as a bait to lure those young PRs to do NS.
not many of us really benefit from it! if they across the board everyone get one payment 9k, even its topping up in cpf ordinary ac. everyone happy! but look at it now!!! this thing will back fire during this coming GE!!! now piss off all the 老兵!!! im quite disappointed that the opposition never see this point, but i will still vote for opposition even he is a road sweeper with primary school qualifications. because only more and more opposition in parliament then it will attract more able people to join the opposition. LHL is really digging his own grave. look at taiwan how they treat those 老兵!!! even address them as 荣民!!! for sinkapoor, its you die (during NS or Reservist) your problem!!! i feel so betray by our gov!!!
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Im only eligible for the last payment which will probably take me a minimum of 7 years later…
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U think u sacrifice big time in NS? All of you are fucking keyboard warriors only!!! When I see the $150K calculation, I laugh?? U think you are a commando in SAF? Most people here is only cook, clerk & driver, talk fucking big!!
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IF Mindef want to give than give to all amn whom have served NS.
Why ? Why ? Why ? Why only those ORD on or after 29Aug 2010 ??
Its unfair and also an insult to those who have serve our country.
Didn’t our fathers have a harder times..i am sure a grant of few thousand to them now will be consider as at least a reconigtion of their hard work.
So to PM and Defence Minister..pls consider my suggestion.
I am sure if war comes we and many others will be callback to serve too.
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To Garrett,
Twisting your words? You have never mentioned, not once, in your posts prior to the last comment that you believed NS is useless before the Mas Selamat incident. All your disdain arose from your unwillingness to serve NS and now that you did, claim that you deserve so much of a compensation to the 2.5 years. If you so much as value that 2.5 years spent as somewhat useless, wouldn’t it be a mockery that you put a price tag of 65K to it?
To give you some credit, I do think that the government shouldn’t have put up incentives, translating NS into dollars and cents. Because, even if they offer you your 65K, there will be people who claim they worth a million. There’s no end to it because the moment you start calculating your worth, the entire purpose for NS is overlooked.
There’s always a choice. Perhaps, now that you have finished your education, making use of the tuition grant, you should leave and the people supporting you here will be happy for you.
Your understanding of the infantry serving no purpose in the army just illustrates a skewed perspective of what you have of the army. Anyway, 2.5 years wouldn’t be enough to train a decent soldier. There’s a reason for the subsequent 10-year cycle of ICTs. Just in case you wouldn’t want to leave Singapore, welcome to another 10 years where you can continue to complain and wallow in the trenches, wasting time there thinking of how much money you could have spent outside.
You want NS to be fully voluntary, but even if it is voluntary today, you are probably one of those who will rather spend time doing something more ‘important”. No? Your kids, if you have any, will probably stay in other cities, having a higher chance of getting mugged/killed one day by local ruffians.
To make my point, you just want more money to appease your anger. And you aren’t getting any more. If you have so much of a backbone, when you’ve reached your milestone of the next 3K, return it back to the government. But I doubt it will happen. Ha.
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Garrett, I suggest you migrate to America.
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I don’t feel insulted because of the $9000 and even I don’t qualify for it as I have finish my reservist leow. What I cannot tahan is that the PAPies keeping that all Singaporean are STUPID! I don’t give a dam to their red packet.
As someone had mentioned, This coming election may be our last chance to kick the PAPies ass out. We will be outnumbered by the new citizens after this!
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I won’t see this $9k as an insult but would rather see it as a bonus where i can use it to pay for my housing loan. Unfornutaly i could not get this $9k since i have completed my NS a few years back. But i won’t complain. Just as some of you have mention, we should serve NS with pride for the nation (like our parent in the past), not because of monetary reward.
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@Tan Wee Teck:
August 31, 2010 at 11:26 pm
Firstly, i would like to comment on your logic(or apparent lack of it) that you want us to believe. You forgot about the minimum pay of at least $400 that army recruits get, so if you factor that into the amount of money we actually get over the 2 years, it is actually alot higher than a maids. I cannot ignore just a glaring flaw in logic when you are saying that we are worth less than maids, and expect us to buy that.
Secondly we didn’t have any monetary compliment to start with, now that we have some, you either take it or leave it -_-. If you were complaining about how PM Lee placed a monetary value on your sense of duty for Singapore, i would admire you somewhat for your pride in what you do. But your issue here is that it is not enough and simply complaining about how you wasted your 2 years in NS and how much you should be compensated for it.
We are just NS recruits newly recruited into the army, the $9000 is already a very good compliment for us, did you think that you are a high ranking officer in the army who deserves a sky high pay? My point is, appreciate what we got, now that we got it.
Thirdly, if you are more capable than ‘foreign talents’, then wouldn’t your pay rise higher than theirs? If you feel like you wasted your time in army, that is because you chose to waste your 2 years. You are a Singaporean Citizen and you have no choice but to go the army, and then you have 2 choices when you enter the army : Complain that you wasted your 2 years or make something out of it. Hello? develop your leadership skills? interpersonal skills?
Also, if you don’t like NS there are plenty of things you can do to avoid it other than to complain. Go immigrate? then you can go become ‘foreign talent’ in other countries. Yawn, i think i have said enough.
—————————————————————
Your comments are the biggest load of crap I have yet seen in this forum….
NS is a complete WASTE of time. Period!
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To Garrett:
Yes, a traditional army may not be very well equipped to handle a terrorist scenario, but if you think that’s the only threat to our tiny RED DOT, then seriously … LOL?? If our country becomes totally defenseless, our two neighbours would glady march in and proclaim it to be their territory. Why, you might ask? The Straits of Malacca and the South China Sea ,combined, is a VERY IMPORTANT TRADE ROUTE. Anyone who controls it, gains a significant advantage in this region. Our TINY RED DOT is at the point where both of them meet. Do you think anyone will leave us alone if we do not have a deterrent force? Would you, assuming you were a politician from our neighbouring country? Only an idiot will choose not to invade us when defenseless. I thought you recently graduated, no? Then you should have thought of this point way before this.
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“Raynor:
September 2, 2010 at 10:39 am
If you so much as value that 2.5 years spent as somewhat useless, wouldn’t it be a mockery that you put a price tag of 65K to it?”
huh ? what talking you ? it is not to say that ns is valuable to worth 65k. moron. it is more to say that for the wasted time there doing things that you do not like to do that is the $$$$ compensation lah.
so do u mean that if someone says that it is useless time wasting for 5 years, 10 years or even 15 years, he should be give a zero value. moron.
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And to those who support the idea of a voluntary force:
Would you really wanna put your lives in the hands of these volunteers who do it solely for $$$?? I’ve been through my 2 years of NS, and I can safely say, based on the attitudes of MOST of the regulars, our country wont really be safe if we entrust it to volunteers who are actually just mercenaries in disguise.
Please do not compare it to the US Armed forces. True, no one would ever do it for free, but they really believe in the slogan that “AMERICA IS FREEDOM”, and they’re willing to die for it if need be. That is how much they LOVE their land. And not to mention, there are FT-es there as well but do you hear them complaining that “sons are sacrificed”??
What would you people die for, ask yourselves?
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Raynor: September 2, 2010 at 10:39 am
“”"Your kids, if you have any, will probably stay in other cities, having a higher chance of getting mugged/killed one day by local ruffians.”"”
what has it got to do with ns being voluntary.
“”"You want NS to be fully voluntary, but even if it is voluntary today, you are probably one of those who will rather spend time doing something more ‘important”.”"”
huh ? voluntary right. so what say you ? i think you can safely say that majority of people (including you ???) will rather spend time doing something more ‘important’ if it is really voluntary ?. no ?
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Full of bullshit and nonsense.
Without NS, there is insufficient security perceived for foreign companies to invest in Singapore in the first place. In such situation, foreign talents will not come. The salary would never be as predicted as well since this salary is only feasible when there is NS and all the benefits coming with it in the perception of companies (not individuals who serve NS).
If government is to give $150k to every Singaporean male, assuming half the population of Singaporeans, say 2 millions, that will be $300,000,000,000 burden on public funds. Where would this money all come from? Print more huh? That would cause hyper-inflation where prices for everything will just shoot up high since all males having more money will spend more thus increase demand for everything. The poorer people would suffer. If it is to come from tax, it will be greater burden on companies having to give greater corporate tax and they will leave the Singapore market, salary will fall as well as there will be fall in employment rate and thus excess supply of labour. That calculation therefore no longer accurate as well. If it is to increase tax for citizens, then they would be unhappy. Having worked so hard, they ended getting lower pay. The productivity of workers will therefore reduce. With this, companies cannot supply goods at low cost. Profits lowered, firms earned lesser, salary falls.
The author still got the cheek to state he is a recent graduate of NUS and say “numbers don’t lie”. His methodology of calculation is already wrong. Numbers don’t lie, he does and maybe not lying cause may not be intentional but just dumb. Graduate still think so simplistic.
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aiyah, tan wee teck only recruit lor. he hasn’t gone out to earn his own money and fight against the FTs purely based on biased playing fields.
forgive him. he know not what he say.. LOL
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To Raynor
We are going off tangent here. The Mas Selamat incident was used as an illustration to highlight the notion that counter-terrorism in the Red Dot is not as good as one seems and that a full conscript army has nothing to do with counter-terrorism, which addresses the point you brought up on protecting the nation from terrorist threats. You were twisting my words because you implied that I advocated the scrapping of all military when I advocated the scrapping of NS. There is a difference.
Your notion of a useless 2.5 years translating to a 65k price tag is nonsensical, primarily because you don’t seem to comprehend how the calculation you made. It is derived from the differential earning power of a local vs foreigner and stems from the fact that foreigner start work 2 years early. So in reality, we are calculating the compounding effect of 2 years of productive and useful employment.
Choice? I don’t see the option not to serve NS for guys at 18 years old. Do you remember a check box on enlistment notice saying “Do you want to serve NS? Yes or No?” What choice is there apart from the choice one’s parents made to migrate before the kid hits a young age? The choice comes after one becomes a working adult, which by then the “damage is already done”.
Safety of Singapore vs other nations is irrelevant to the topic. If you claim that NS is so beneficial and that we are just the whiners, why not make it purely a voluntary and well-paid military force? Surely, there will be people like you who will serve for 2.5 years ya?
The 3k is already not mine since it’s locked up in CPF. It is already returned to the govt.
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To: Stop complaining on the wrong issues
Again, like Raynor you are twisting my words. Scrapping NS is not the same as scrapping military. Your idea on the Straits of Malacca and South China Sea may have merit, but most conscripts do not serve in the navy – so isn’t there a contradiction in your point?
A voluntary military force is already sufficient for basic deterrence. Our neighbors won’t bother invading the island because we have no resources of value except our location and infrastructure. An invasion of the island means urban warfare and that means high collateral damage. Essentially invading the Red Dot would mean destroying the stuff that the invader is after for. Not to forget the international ramifications of such an action. Nations can do analysis of cost and benefits. Only an idiot would invade Singapore.
The only reasonable likely invader in my opinion would be China, who may want to control SE Asia and its valuable shipping lanes. However, given how PRCs are taking over the country, I don’t think China needs to military invade the Red Dot because we will become another province of China within a decade if things go on without improvement!
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To: NumbersDon’tLieButYouDo
Again, another PAP supporter twisting my words. The article was an illustration of how small the 9k payout is versus a properly done calculated sum. It wasn’t meant to demand the govt to pay up to $150k to every guy below age 40.
Your talk of hyperinflation and the other bad-stuff-to-happen is going off tangent. If you disagree with my calculations methodology (as you said you did), show your revised calculations and how you derive them. Submit an article to TR showing your corrected calculations, and we’ll see whether is it reasonable.
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To: Garrett
If one does not know the outcome of a policy of what reactions it might bring, then you cannot show a wise calculation. Unfortunately, I’m not a PAP supporter. I’m a Business student who studied Economics and various social sciences subject in which I’m skeptical over your simplistic assumption.
If you think it is off tangent, then it makes you a lousy policy maker or one to even suggest any policy. Everything you do that is nation-wide will affect something else that will in turn affect something else.
If supposed there is no NS, it is not even possible for Singapore have attract foreign investors to increase our employment rate. The excess supply of labour would lower our average salary. To how much, I do not know. I am not a professional valuator of the value NS brings to the nation and its economy. I do not act smart to think my calculation is accurate and worth something to consider. The fact that you can get a $30,000 annual salary is based on the fact that NS is already in place in which investors already came and jobs are already available.
The benefits of NS should be calculated based on supposed situation if there is no NS, what would the pay difference be but the fact that we do not know, it cannot be easily calculated. You neglected this increase in salary due to NS until as if you are deprived rather than benefited. If you calculate based on the fact that everything is in place in which you are being ’short-changed’ that is an error because you may well benefited from it without seeing that but foreign talents just benefited more. In this society, someone just benefited more, there is no such thing as equality.
If $9,000 is too little and you use $150,000 to illustrate how much is actually owe to you, how much then is not too little? Are you not being simple? Anyone against you must be PAP supporter. It is not surprising from your article that you think too simple and just calculate blindly ignoring other factors needed to be considered.
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To Garret:
I wish to bring some points to you as I have read some commented that your analysis is simplistic and flawed by others as well.
Firstly, someone did mentioned that Government spent millions to ensure cheap education for all. Foreign talents did not benefited from it. You calculated as if you are being deprived when foreign talents did not receive this benefit at all.
Secondly, on top of that, you did not include your NS pay during that 2 years as if it is nil. This distort the numbers further.
Thirdly, you did not include the fact that some employers do give higher salary for those that served NS. It is believed by some that NS would shape character and Employers do not just look at your certificate but your character as well. To assume that Foreign Talents would have the same starting salary when they do not have such experience again would be distorting the numbers.
Lastly, Singaporeans grew up in Singapore, know the culture better and socially can fit in better. With this, they stand an advantage over foreign talents of same level of education but grew up in a different culture that will have problem in socializing and work efficiently socially.
This is a very bad comparison cause you throw all factual differences away to simply assume the only difference is the 2 years opportunity of earning more. Your calculation is accurate provided it is two persons that are identical and that the only difference is the 2 years and in which that 2 years will not change the attitude and personality of the person having no benefits (e.g. non-monetary) at all. So how are you short-changed $150,000? Life is not as simple as numbers that ‘numbers don’t lie’ as if you can simply use numbers to evaluate costs and benefits. You are thinking social beings far too simple reducing us to mere numbers.
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People don’t give you, complain.
People give you, also complain.
…… ?-_-?
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Dear all,
I have seen alot of the postings here and I agree with everyone of them but to a certain degree.
First let me be honest and say I like our government. Lets be honest without them Singapore wont be what it is today. Another thing I like is NS. I study in Australia and let me tell you I am glad that our Singaporean men though smaller in built are better off than most of them because of the discipline we learn. Whether you were a clerk or an officer in your NS the lessons you learn are really valuable. I may not be admit to put it in words here but if you were to see the youth of Australia you will understand why.
I am really sadden by this decision. Before I went in I told myself I want to be the best I can and not becaue of the money but I wanted to test myself. I chiong to OCS got my commisioned. When I became a PC looking at the generations that are coming in it is pathetic. They are so soft. They find all sorts of reasons to get out of training. So correct me if I am wrong but these people also deserve the 9k? I didnt serve NS or chiong to OCS to get my money. I do admit that the pay was better than the other ranks but if i really wanted money i would have down graded, get a 9-5 job and then spent the nights and weekends on jobs which was what some of my men did. And they earned more than me.
Lets talk about your fathers now. Didnt they have to serve NS too? Are you saying my father who also worked his ass off to go to OCS to get more money to feed his family at that time is not worth a cent now? To that foreign talent who said Singapore needs you more than you needs us, I hope you do not make me lose hope in the human spirit. What you said was really hurtful.
All of us serve 2 years. Without us do you think Singapore has the bargaining power in the geo political situation she is in? Do you think there would even be companies here that will then hire you foregn talents? Do you think there would even be a country where you can bring your kids and wife to have a nice life even for 4 years before you leave. Try walking around at night in other countries. You do not have to serve NS so you can fully take advantage of market oppurunities when they come. Spare a thought for us.
I am just a simple man. I dont know how to calculate what the government truly owes me over 10 years or how the CPF really goes. But sometimes you just have to think simple.
Yes NS is a definte. And I support it. I dont want my son to be a soft ill discplined like the many australians i see everyday. I am not saying that I will leave discpline all to the army and the schools like how parents are today but i hope you get my point. Yes our govenment is good. Look at where we are today.
The main issue is not about money. I am sure those that calcualted things out are not stressing that money is the key issue they are just showing that 9k creates more problems than solves them. Its just a misunderstanding between some of us here. Because once you put a price on its novelty its specialy its uniqueness is gone! I cannot now tell my employer “you should hire me because when the bombs start falling on singapore which YOUR COMPANY is in I AM THE ONE WHO IS BLEEDING I AM THE ONE WHO IS DYING to make sure that the country is still standing to make sure that buisnesses YOUR BUISNESS can still running. AND I DO IT FOR FREE!”
The main concern is not money. 9k multiply by 1000 000 can do so much more for our the poor, the old, our transport system? Its about educating our next generation why NS is needed why it is so important. Secondly NS is not just carrying a gun foreigners can chip in too. Our government with all its brillant minds defenitely can find a way to slot them in. Its not about pleasing us Singaporean men is about upholding the fairness that this country was built on.
So if anyone with any power to make this more publically known and stop this please do. I have not lost faith in my country and I hope I never do.
Thanks
Andrew
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To all younger generation of Singaporean. Please do not forget that whatever fruits you are enjoying now came from the suffering and agony of the older generation. All of you now only know how to complain and complain. I understand that the some of you may be earning $10k or more every month, but without the NSF, NSmen and a strong Armed Forces protecting our country, do you think Singapore will prosperous in such a fast pace? Guess our living standard will be much much lower than now. So please be grateful. Whether Singapore government give the $9k or not, serving NS is a duty to every citizen of the country, protecting our country and our love one. So we will not be bully by other countries (Just see IRAQ and KUWAIT example.) I am sure grateful to all those who are serving NS now, protecting us while we can sleep peaceful throughout the night.
As for government policy, by voting out the PAP does not solve the problem. A lot may disagree but I really wonder if PAP is voted out, who do u think will be the next PM? Any good calibre? Lets leave it to the citizen of Singapore to decide. As for me, since I have completed my time in NS, I had played my part in serving the country. Whether have $9k or not, I will still serve my country so I can continue to have my peaceful sleep at night knowing someone is protecting me while I am sleeping.
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