MHA: Abdul Malik is instigating “violence” by his call to “burn” a PAP minister
September 4th, 2010 | 
Author: It is already appalling that the Singapore police is unable to differentiate a simple metaphor from a genuine threat. It now seems that officials from the Ministry of Home Affairs need to attend some basic English lessons as well.
In a letter to the Straits Times Forum today, a MHA spokesperson reiterated that YOG critic Mr Abdul Malik was arrested for making public comments which could “incite violence and public” disorder and not for making anti-YOG remarks as suggested by a lop-sided article written by Jeremy Au Yong from Straits Times two days ago.
“It is a serious offence to instigate violence or injury against another person. It does not matter if his target is a government minister, a journalist or someone from any other profession,” Toh Yong Chuan, a MHA Director wrote.
Mr Abdul Malik made the international headlines when he was arrested by the Singapore police for “inciting violence and public disorder” with a comment he posted on Facebook criticizing Dr Vivian Balakrishnan over his handling of the YOG.
Below is a snapshot of the original comment posted by Mr Malik who got him into trouble with the police:
He was arrested at his workplace by three plain-clothes police officers from Bedok Police Division whose Commander is DAC Teo Chun Ching and Head Investigator is DSP Goh Tat Boon.
The controversial case made the international headlines, sparking a huge outcry among Singaporeans who were appalled at the inability of the police to differentiate between a metaphor and a genuine threat.
Prominent Singapore blogger Mr Brown wrote sarcastically that anyone with “half a brain” will realize that Mr Malik was not inciting any violence:
“Personally, I think his only crime was typing in all caps and the overuse of exclamation marks (I suggest a month’s community service for every unnecessary exclamation mark). You may even take him to task for misspelling the name of our Sports Minister (it’s “Vivian” and not “Vivien”, and he’s a bloke). But I think anyone with half a brain will realize that in the context of what Mr Ghazali wrote, he was not inciting any violence or asking folks to set a minister on fire.” (Read more here)
Another netizen Kojakbt asked how a simple metaphor like “burn” can be misconstrued to mean “inciting violence and public disorder”:
“Now, you can physically burn a person but how are you supposed to burn a political party? Moving to the next sentence, “Rally together and vote them out!!!”, he was clearly qualifying his previous “burn” remark by asking the citizens to vote PAP out. Hence, reading both sentences together, the meaning of the word “burn” becomes clearer. It’s referring to burning as in the idiom, “burning someone at the stake”. Figuratively, it means “to chastise or denounce someone severely or excessively” (http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/burn+at+the+stake). In short, it’s clear to most people who have passed their GCE ‘O’ level English that Mr Malik was speaking metaphorically when he used the word “burn”. I’m puzzled that the person who reported this to the police cannot understand simple English?”
Mr Malik has since apologized to Dr Vivian via an email:
“If my words had caused you concerns for your personal safety, I wish to apologize for the discomfort I have caused you. In no way was this a threat or perceived threat meant to endanger your life. I have made that quite clear to the police, but I wish to state it to you formally as well to ensure I have made an effort to clarify matters with you. If nothing else, it is for the sake of ensuring I have a clear conscience,” he wrote.
Dr Vivian has categorically denied lodging a police report against Mr Malik and claimed he “almost didn’t care” about the incident. According to Mr Malik, the report was lodged by the investigating officer from Bedok Police Division himself which raise serious questions on whether there are any procedural lapses in doing so.
It remains to be seen if the Attorney-General Chambers will prosecute Mr Malik whose lawyer will have a field day *”grilling” the police officers on their basic English comprehension skills.
*The word is used here as a metaphor to mean “intense questioning” and should not be taken literally”.
Related articles:
>> Transcript of Abdul Malik’s interview with Straits Times
>> Abdul Malik apologizes to Vivian Balakrishnan
>> Bedok Police Division should explain arrest of YOG critic
>> Former RI boy Abdul Malik turned into “celebrity” overnight
>> Abdul Malik: My thoughts on the YOG games
>> Dr Vivian: I don’t care about arrest of YOG critic
>> Arrest of YOG critic to squash dissent failed miserably
>> Character assassination by Straits Times against YOG critic
>> Netizens voice support for arrested YOG critic Abdul Malik
>> Outcry among Singaporeans at arrest of YOG critic
>> Singapore police put YOG on world map
>> Did Dr Vivian lodge police report against YOG critic?
>> YOG critic arrested by Singapore police
>> Participant of “I hate YOG” Facebook arrested by police
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Posted in Editorial
Wonder what does TYC says about the utterances of Mas Salamat in Malaysian police investigation and reported in the media here after he was arrested in Johore?
Was that “non-violence” that didn’t invite his comment? And what about all others by “OTHERS”?
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My congratulation to the MHA Director for being so clear with his defination of instigating and inciting violence. But one wonders if fixing, kunckle-duster and hatchet carrys the same weight?
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We are surrounded by traitors…Singaporeans sabo own Singaporeans pro PAP = Pro foreigners.
You selling your children future to the gov
60% Singaporeans not stupid just traitors.
I support to hide your ID for postings in forum
http://www.shownoip.com
http://www.safeip.info
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The “clarification” is probably instigated by the petty-minded WKS.
Won’t be surprised if the whole incident is initiated by him.
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Do you believe what MHA people say? If the person is not a minister but just an ordinary people like me, do you think they will bother? Do you know if you are physically assaulted by somebody they will classify it as non seizeable offence and you have to employ lawyer to fight for the case? So MHA is talking rubbish. They don’t treat our citizens equally, now more and more people know that if you are beatened, the assaultant is not treated as criminal and you have to take your own action. That’s what the police told us.
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This shows that Mr Toh Yong Chuan (MHA Director) is indeed a stupid scholar or a senior manager with absolutely no brain of his own, nor doesn’t understand basic English language. People like him in the civil service doesn’t deserve their pay. I’ll broadcast his comments overseas for the whole world to know how proficient and “clever” these bunch of gahmen directors are in Singapore.
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if malik didn’t join a polical party, with the apology, they would have let it slide. but now he intends to… so watch them “fix” him
again, he shot himself in the foot by not putting burn in quotations. and if you decide to apologize, at least get his name right. that just gives them another chance to “fix” him.
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The MHA letter to ST is just a prelude to more draconian actions agains Abdul Malik (AM). This is to be expected as AM now that he has applied to join a political party. AM is just another sacrificial lamb in the police state that is SIN.
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Politics in Singapore itself is a JOKE!
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Quite stupid reply from MHA.
I am glad TR clarified the use of the word “grilling”.
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A person who wants to commit a crime will never reveal it in black and white. THink! (Abdul Malik) Would he be stupid. He is also a RI student. He just wants attention and now you made him more a “STAR”.
All TOM DICK in the street recongise him. Now his is a SDP member.
He is now more popular than any MP in the street.
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Apply the same standard to PAP LeeHsienLoong and LeeKuanYew too, for ‘fixing’, ‘hatchet’ etc.
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Someone should go and check. Did Wong Kan Seng pass his ‘O’ level English? How did he ever become a Minister of Home Affair if his English is lousy?
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@Correspondent
You and those who differ with the words legislated in the law must have the courage to stand up and be counted to challenge the MHA publicly. No point of you hiding under the ladies’ skirt to write anonymously which is of no help at all to Abdul Malik. If you truly believe and convince of what you write with conviction and is sincerely genuine to help, you should give a robust response to The Straits Times and rebut the MHA’s interpretation of the law publicly and challenge the Police’s allegations in open court trial for arresting Abdul Malik without justification. To show your intellectual honesty, let your views and interpretation of the law prevail to convince the judge of what you write is true and genuine and prove to the world that the arrest of Abdul Malik is manifestly wrong. It costs you nothing to give a robust response to MHA’s statement in today’s The Straits Times forum to prove your intellectual honesty. Neither does it cost you a cent for you to go over to Bedok Police Station to give a statement to the Police of what you write here and be counted as a defence witness for Ahdul Malik. Also to testify in open public trial in court as a defence witness if Abdul Malik is prosecuted in court for the alleged offence. Prove your intellectual honesty publicly in what you write and not hide under the ladies’ skirt of anonymousity. Talk is cheap!
Mod’s note:
Yes, talk is cheap, but having a real influence on public perception is not. If you haven’t noticed, whatever published here gets national and even international media attention. We play a different sort of ball game, so save your breath.
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I have yet to see a Minister or senior civil servant who would come
down to our level to apologise for wrongdoing.
(sorry WKS’s regret in Parliament over Mas Selamat is not even half an apology)
Now iso apologising for wrongful arrest, director Toh clarification
makes him look even “stupider” when people with half a brain
can be more discerning.
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If say I want to whack you —-can be so serious.
But kenna whack until die but police take no action one.
Toh Yong Chuan ! don’t talk cock lar !
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Isn’t Sinha and Jack Lin instigating violence by calling Singaporeans Dogs and Third Class Citizens?
By the way, why isn’t the police investigating Jack Lin for alleged violation of Singapore law prohibiting gay sex? I seem to recall that several people who claim to have information have come forward here saying he engaged in gay sex in Singapore.
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Know what,
…all these are prelude to election akan datang.
MHA want to show people don’t talk too much on the net because we are watching you.
…
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AM was “reckless” to announced his “affiliation” or “intend” to join a Political Grp…when his case isn’t being “mentioned” or “Cleared” yet !
Welcome, New Citizens, welcome to another “Hell” ! Ha! Ha!…better plan your exit …way b4 you turn 40.
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MHA should then come out with an EXHAUSTIVE list of all banned words on all possible subjects in all languages which it is deemed INAPPROPRIATE for use in all media so that anyone using such words will be persecuted under the full weight of the law!
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@ 捉异己不捉贼的新警察: Sep”Do you believe what MHA people say? If the person is not a minister but just an ordinary people like me, do you think they will bother? Do you know if you are physically assaulted by somebody they will classify it as non seizeable offence and you have to employ lawyer to fight for the case? So MHA is talking rubbish”
Like some pig in Animal Farm said : “All animals are equal. But some animals are MORE equal than others”.
True exemplification of that prophetic statement here. We have a certain BLACK PIG with a sissy girly name being MORE EQUAL than others.
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me, ahkow, chinese helicopter, maybe bo tart chay(illiterate), but aren’t these more instigative/inciting to violence and public disorder:
“………. Everybody knows that in my bag I have a hatchet, and a very sharp one. You take me on, I take my hatchet, we meet in the cul-de-sac.”
- Lee Kuan Yew, The Man And His Ideas, 1997
“If we had considered them serious political figures, we would not have kept them politically alive for so long. We could have bankrupt them earlier.”
- Lee Kuan Yew on political opposition, Straits Times, Sept 14 2003
“If I have to shoot 200,000 students to save China from another 100 years of disorder, so be it.” – Lee Kuan Yew evoking the ghost of Deng Xiaoping whilst endorsing the Tiananmen Square massacre, Straits Times, Aug 17, 2004
http://leewatch.info/quotes/
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“incite violence and public disorder”???????
Show us the proof, Toh Yong Chuan!
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“It remains to be seen if the Attorney-General Chambers will prosecute Mr Malik whose lawyer will have a field day *”grilling” the police officers on their basic English comprehension skills.”
There is no doubt that if it goes to court the whole world will be laughing at us. Let us hope that common sense will prevail.
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What about someone meeting up with another person(s) in a cul-de-sac and settle some matters with hatchets??Isn’t that instigating violence, injury and even death?Shouldn’t the bastard who made this sentence be jailed or arrested?
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My first reaction on reading about the arrest in the newspapers was that it was an “overkill” move. I too thought to myself that what Abdul Malik meant should be taken metaphorically and not literally. Also as this is a very touchy and delicate case and the Police should have consulted AG before deciding on appropriate action to take. Perhaps, they might have. Should the case go to trial, I am afraid, it is the image of the Government that would suffer more. May be the arrest was intended to be a forewarning to netizens and citizens to be more guarded and less trenchant with their comments and views.
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Looks like MHA are the real one that out to incite violence and public disorder by refusing to comprehend simple English.
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We should be thankful for Toh Yong Chuan (MHA Director)in making PAP lose more votes in coming election. By the way, anyone has Toh Yong Chuan’s photograh? Good to see his actual face.
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I read this with interest …. “Dr Vivian has categorically denied lodging a police report against Mr Malik and claimed he “almost didn’t care” about the incident.” That means Dr Vivian is not threatened at all. How to establish a case of harming Dr Vivian when Dr Vivian feels perfectly okay?
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In my duty to the country as a native Singaporean, I did call the police on suspicious characters around sensitive installation and the police never show up. Civil Servant like Toh Yong Chuan works only for PAP and not for the public as when the threat is real, civil servants like him will take cover. They only serve PAP and not the community. Take a good look at the Woodlands and Tuas checkpoint security alertness. Toh Yong Chuan( or Minister WKS) should spend more time standing at the woodlands and Tuas checkpoint and see for himself the level of alertness…It’s appalling…But I cannot take picture on the lapses or dozing off officer on-duty as the sign did state clearly no photograph allow. Now, I do understand the real motivation for no photograph to be taken; it’s not meant for anti-terrorist measure but to avoid the public from taking picture of those civil servant not performing their duties. Is WKS or Toh Yong Chuan going to be accountable and be fired when another incident happen at the checkpoint; I don’t think so.
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Dangerouse words in SingaPAPore:
BURN
BOMB
…WHERE IS OUR MONEY
DESPOT
NEPOTISM
……feel free to add on
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actually, if you ask me, i think the government just needs to watch more jersey shore. then problem about burn settled liao.
just imagine, next time in parliament (post-jersey shore education, of course), when theyre opposing a point raised by someone from wp/sdp/rp then can just say ‘too bad, we still outnumber you no matter what. burn mfcker, buuuuuurrrrrrrrrnnn!!!’
apply usage into other contexts like the redrawing of electoral boundaries and voting in parliament for things like the yog.
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The police officer is a joker who want to impress the boss and politician
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Is there a facebook group to show disgust at the MHA and police actions? Perhaps a petition instead if there isn’t one?
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Here is a response to the word “burn” used in Malik’s statement by a British teacher, teaching English in Madrid:
http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/128976-can-someone-help.html
Default Re: Can someone help?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kojakbt View Post
“This is the time for us to burn the Minister and his political party! Rally together and vote them out!”
What does this mean? Does it mean the writer intends to physically harm the Minister by rallying the people to burn him?
Please help. Thanks.
No. I think it’s a metaphorical “burning” meaning to destroy his career as a Minister and ensure that someone else is voted in.
I don’t think anyone would be so silly as to advertise their desire or plan to physically harm someone. In some countries, that’s a criminal offence.
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in the first place, this malik guy should have stick to his neck that his fb comments is a metaphor, that’s it. and dont say anymore thing. But worst still, during the questioning by the police, he try to defend even more, that’s get him into deep shit trouble.
Worst still, in order to try to appease the whole situation, he thought by making an apology , everything will be slide it down. What a naive guy he is! Without realising that, as long as he has been called in to drink ‘lim kopi’, he is bound forever marked by pappies liao, whether he like it or not. It’s a true fact.
More worst, go and join the SDP where your Ah-gong destest the founder so much and have bankrupted him and jailed him for long…..So isnt he is making a laughing stock for the whole nation to see that he does not actually have a brain at all, so what he may be a RI student..It doesnt mean that you will be a bright student in the cruel real society that you are facing , especially when it comes to politics.
Sad for this malay malik guy. The best thing he should do now is dont ever appear in the stage, best is anyone would to ask him more on the lim kopi session what has been dialogued through, all even what is the outcome of his application of SDP, he should kept totally silent. It is best for him to remain as a silent lamb now rather to play and act roaring lion.
Last if he got monies, i think he better privately engage a queen counsel to advise him also…..My condolences for this dumb malik!
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Malik is cooked just like CSJ
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Aiyah, just vote PAP out.
END.OF.STORY.
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For sure, the MHA will not throw the ISA law on Malik, isn’t it?
He is safe.
The word ‘burn’ is still fresh in the minds of many and it still haunts the ‘burnt victim’, isn’t it?
The ‘Burning Man’ week in the Nevada desert has about to be ended. Want to know more, please google for ‘burning man’.
Some 50,000 people paid US$300 each to participate for a week in the desert to ‘have that Burning Man’. Nothing cheap to have that burn in the hot and cold desert, isn’t it? It is safe too. No straw houses around in the desert to be put at risk. But concrete jungles cannot stand the heat. Too fragile, isn’t it?
Ponder as fire and smoke like all things stem from the Unseen.
Those who do not respect the Unseen will get to face many sufferings, some have and some will end up burnt literally. Ponder.
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Joining a political party.
Many humans do not even believe that the unseen world truly exits, and some do not even respect the Unseen, and yet many readily and easily believe in the words of politicians.
This is the fundamental contradiction in the lives of humans, isn’t it?
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Many parrot civil servant. it is difficult to trust what they say.
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“It is a serious offence to instigate violence or injury against another person. It does not matter if his target is a government minister, a journalist or someone from any other profession,” Toh Yong Chuan, MHA Director, 4 Sep 2010.
I remind the SPF/MHA/AGC that Lee Kuan Yew infamously stated how he would rein in a legally and democratically elected non-PAP government, “Without the elected president and if there is a freak result, within two or three years, the army would have to come in and stop it” Lee Kuan Yew, 15 Sep 2006.
The threat of ordering a coup to remove a legitimate government is itself treason. To date, Lee Kuan Yew has not been arrested nor questioned for this statement, even though it is many orders of magnitude more severe than any possible interpretation of Malik’s metaphor.
So it seems that it is different strokes for different folks. This is another violation of Article 12 of the Constitution, of equal protection before the law. The People are keeping score.
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Aiyo….why lah…what is happening…..
Looks like now we need to be careful of what we say….
How people like Ris Low all can survive…like how TOC has put up a comic article representing this.
Maybe they all scared lah Singaporeans get too angry…and these words MIGHT transform to actions.
But how like that, how can we say things so perfect in English…we all never study in Cambrige what….also LHL, his father also cannot speak such perfect English because all not trained in English language what…what law & maths only only what.
They also say words like fix & hatchet…never kena arrest or question.
Like this Singapore Police…are they a puppet.What act so cool….only puppets huh.
Puppet will do excatly like the strings pulled.
Now I not sure, if Singapore Police like puppet, or not.
Aiyo…how to respect Puppet like this.
If we see on the srteets also, cannot say anything..maybe they don’t understand English…they arrest for no reason.
Aiyo, How Singapore Police engaging with FTs, maybe thats why got fight and crime all done by FTs in Singapore, because Police, never inform the seriousness of Singapore Law.
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If Toh Yong Chuan, the MHA Director did NOT issue the statement as DIRECTED by the Powers-That-Be, then his ARSE will be *GRILLED.
Oops! Did I just instigated others to Literally Grill the Director’s arse, thus also inciting Violence?
Scared, very scared liao. 
BTW, just out of curiosity, did the MHA Director pass his Primary 6, ie: PSLE?
Clarification:
*The word is used here as a metaphor to mean “kenna **chromed” and should not be taken literally.
**The word is used here as a metaphor to mean “taken to task” and should not be taken literally to mean spray paint on someone.
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If I’m a govt scholar with a $500K a year paycheck and potentially lifetime pension and lifetime free medical, hell, I’ll even say that AM is a seditious terrorist from Mars if that’s what PAPies order me to do.
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What does the action by the schools to hold the $5 of their students money and only to return them after proof that the student had indeed attended the YOG event mean? Extortion? Blackmail? This were actual events weren’t they? As adults, would we have agreed to someone taking money from you for the same purpose? Did the schools abuse thier power? Where the parents informed of what the schools did?. Did the schools make the parents agree? If parents agreed then I think the parents are pure dumb to subject their kids to this scheme. What values are we teaching these kids? Was close to 400 million of tax payer’s money worth to teach these kids a lesson to succumb to this twisted logic?
I think the police should investigate these cases instead.
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Charge AM, would be really fun to see the learned Judges whose understanding of Engish language should be that of quality to decide can AM’s words can indeed incite violence and public” disorder. Will want to the how AG and porsection prove their case to protect PAP. The AG had let many cases not charging the person whom committed crimes under penal code with warning. I do not see why they have to charge a person when no body was really hurted or any public order was caused where in many criminal cases they let go with warnings, actual hurt was caused.
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Perhaps, Mr.Toh Yong Chuan, a MHA Director, may want to reflect carefully the relevant application of the legal tenets found in the decision of Shepherd v The Queen (1990) 170 CLR 573, 575-576 (per
Mason CJ) – the evidence consists of strands in a cable rather than links in a chain – before offering his comments.
The cable inference structure and the chain inference structure is well illustrated in this diagrammatic illustration below
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/MonashULawRw/1997/5.pdf
At the simplest level, one cannot harvest only one strand (insteads of all the strands of a cable) to convict the accused. It is the TOTALITY OF ALL STRANDS OF A CABLE to prove the guilt or innocence of the accused.
In simple analogy, cloud causes rain BUT SOME CLOUDS SCATTER AND DO NOT CAUSE RAIN. So it does NOT prove that ALL CLOUDS cause rain. So the “nexus” between clouds and rain is JUST CLOUDS OF WORDS IN LAW AND NOTHING MORE. The presence of overcast cloud does NOT PROVE THE INEVITABLY OF RAIN. Today, it is cloudy sky in Singapore. I enjoy a long walk for over an hour but no rain on me!! The “nexus” of link in the chain of cloud to rain proved any claim by anyone that I will be wet outdoor without an umbrella is FALSE.
In law application, particularly criminal law appliction, “NEXUS” COVERS A MULTITUDE OF LIES BECAUSE THE STRANDS OF CABLE OF TRUTHS HAVE BEEN HIDDEN OR DENIED OF RELEVANCE..
Justice Mason is absolutely right in Shepherd v Queen that it must be strands of a cable, not just a link in a chain that matters. The metaphorical “chain” in the link might be just tied to a couple of straws floated on the surface of water drowned in an ocean of truths of evidence.
Anyone disagree?
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@PR Citizen
Have you enlisted yourself to National Service?
Then I will consider you input. If not shut up and “burn’
yourself away fm here.
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This PR Citizen is Clinton666 in sammyboy forum, the way he incite and fan others to hate PAP is the same style here towards PR.
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Walau! scholars take the meaning of word so literally.
there is such a thing as figur of speech,right??
now,who is the CHAIRMAN of the SPEAK GOOD ENGLSIH CAMPAIGN?
ASK HIM THE BROAD MEANING OF THE WORD ‘burn’.
so,LSS,CAN WE SAY ‘WORKERS ARE BURN OUT’?
DOES THAT MEAN OUR BOSSES HERE BURN THE WORKERS TO DEATH?
SO MUCH FOR SPEAK GOOD ENGLISH CAMPAIGN.
PS; GUESS WE BETTER PUBLISH OUR OWN SINGAPOREAN DICTIONARY so that our students don;t get burnt?
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@ VerySian:
September 4, 2010 at 3:50 pm
@ Kojakbt:
September 4, 2010 at 3:37 pm
ASK YOURSELVES THIS SIMPLE QUESTION – HOW CAN ANYONE VOTE “AH KOW” OUT AFTER ‘INCINERATING’ metaphorical “AH KOW FROM PHYSICAL EXISTENCE. IT IS A LEGAL FICTION. This is a question of fact.
And if anyone still wants to clutch a single straw of wishful lie drowning in an ocean of truth of this fiction, it would still confront the impossibility of proof as TYC’s public comments already proved it. His comment
” It does not matter if his target is a government minister, a journalist or someone from any other profession,” Toh Yong Chuan, a MHA Director wrote.” is SELF-EVIDENT.
Now imagine if an anonymous “Ah Siao” got excited by this incite, who is “Ah Siao” going to “burn”? A government minister or a journalist, or from any other profession or you two or me as the chosen victim??
Does “Ah Siao” got ANY VAGUE ACQUAINTANCE with the unknown (to Ah Siao) me, Kojakbt or Very Sian to inflict harm on any of us?
The answer is self-evidently – NO. If if the chosen target is unknown of existence to the hypothetical assailant who is allegedly “incited” by AM’s instigation, HOW CAN THE PROSECUTION IN COURT OF LAW PROVE THEIR EVIDENCE AGAINST AM BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT OTHER THAN COMPLETE FICTION???
IT IS AN IMPOSSIBLE PROSECUTION IN THE COURT OF LAW, I WOULD IMAGINE.
Since, the case looks impossible of proof, those who want to nail AM must find other angles from different places to bait him to make public comments and use these as evidences of admission to hang him.
I agree with Very Sian, and Forecaster ExtraordinaireII that AM should keep his mouth shut because he is biting the bait set up for him.
His battle is easily won in the courtroom (if he shuts his mouth), I would believe.
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@Devagi:
September 4, 2010 at 11:53 am
‘……..If you truly believe and convince of what you write with conviction and is sincerely genuine to help,……’
Refer to your phrase ‘write with conviction’. With your zero ability to accomodate alternative interpretations perhaps you could clarify what do you mean by that? You have some draconian objectives?
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There will then be no libel or slander in the law if every threat when confronted is but a metaphor or a joke. Right?
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The government is getting hypersenstive to anti-PAP remarks.
Sounds Qin Shi Huang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_Shi_Huang
Getting paranoia of the people that no longer loved the ruler so that he had to use ruthless techniques to control them.
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Burn here burn there, everyday we also burn our time for OT, night study…
Simple metaphor can also be misinterpreted, what more can they comprehend?
Maybe the next time when people using sensitive words must use in a quote: “Burn”…
If everyone type “burn” P__ does that really mean inciting violence?
A political party cannot be physically “burn” but its ideology and its foundation can be challenged.
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It’s a Lee Kuan Yew feudal meritocracy system, I have been saying this for a while.
If you are a critic of PAP and you decided to make a trip to Paskistan, what will happen after you return?
Under this feudal system, the police can assume that you have intention to join a terror group and arrest you?
Singapore biggest problem is PAP. We will in big trouble if we do not fix this problem.
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“NEXUS” in law is like a stinking fart, foul-smelling and cause no physical or mental injury. Remember that!!! Why? because it will be proved wanting of the question of fact and also the question of law, naturally in consequence. NO NEED TO FART AROUND ON THIS BLOG.
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Yup devagi tok is cheep.
Tok kok even cheeper, maybe cheeperer/cheeperest?
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Dear Mohan, RIGHT!
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MHA is lowering the level of our freedom of speech to new low. They want netizens like us to shut up in preparation for next year GE may be ?
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For all I know, this Malay chap could be detained at the Institute of Mental Health to join someone by the name of Boon, if I’m not wrong.
No need trial lah.
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I think you have the School of Textual Criticism and the School of Contextual Criticism here. The School of Textual Criticism, the Police, insist that Abdul Malik said ‘burn Vivien Balakrishnan…!’ while the School of Contextual Criticism (comprising mainly of those who aren’t the police) say that he did say ‘burn Vivi[a]n Balakrishnan’ but only in the context of an election.
But can a man not be set afire in an election? Not only polling booths are combustible material. They used to burn live bodies too, in more ancient times, as part of penalty for grievous offences, or sacrifice (recently in India too; the wife is burnt beside a dead husband, in a ’suttee’), and it is understood that the Body burns, much like that of a dead body in the crematorium.
What Mr Abdul Malik said is to me at least a threat to Dr Vivian Balakrishnan, but he said it quite publicly, in a Facebook page, which I believe is accessible to those who aren’t ‘Friends’ of the account user, meaning any mad man like the one who burned, sorry, burned, sorry… but how do I say it so that it is understood that the MP who was burned was burned? Anyway… meaning that any mad man like the one who burned the MP could have been incited to violence.
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Sorry. ‘Grievous crimes’.
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If Abdul Malik knows what to do, he should just say to the investigating officer that he would plead guilty to the crime of inciting violence in front of the judge; put it down in writing, and also explain why he incited violence against Dr Vivian Balakrishnan. No need to explain to TR why.
But now that he has joined SDP it is unlikely that he would admit to the offence of having incited violence against Dr Vivian Balakrishnan. SDP members never admit to criminal offences. They don’t admit to conducting demonstrations without a permit, and they’re not likely to admit to having incited violence against other individuals.
But can I quote Kafka: ‘Guilt is never to be doubted’?
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lee kuan yew and his ah gua son and cronies will be burn in hell for 10 000yrs
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I’m just trying to figure out the connection between ‘cheating’ and ‘inciting violence’. Perhaps when a criminal cheats successfully he moves on to inciting violence. If a criminal doesn’t cheat successfully, he might move on to committing violence. But what happens if a criminal does not incite violence successfully? Will he go back to cheating? Last we heard, Abdul Malik has joined the SDP. Perhaps it could have been better that he joined the police force, for risk of conducting illegal demonstration marches.
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Check out what a teacher in English teaching in Madrid said: ‘I don’t think anyone would be so silly as to advertise their desire or plan to physically[-]harm someone. In some countries, that’s a criminal offence.’
Should anyone tell him that inciting violence in Singapore is a criminal offence?
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@TR – According to Mr Malik, the report was lodged by the investigating officer from Bedok Police Division himself which raise serious questions on whether there are any procedural lapses in doing so.
Can someone clarify the correct procedures for lodging of a police report? In what ways is it right or wrong for the IO himself to lodge and investigate the same case?
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@JO ——- that any mad man like the one who burned the MP could have been incited to violence.
Hey JO – mad men do not need to be incited. Even the question of whether mad people can be incited or not is subjective.
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We have to topple them in the coming election, if not Singapore gonna loose billions for his funeral.
Jokes are that, people will go and see
not out of respect, but to spit on him and make sure that he is really really really dead!
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Looks like Malik will drag the system to show what it is made up of. Experts will be called to understand the meaning of what was written and why the person that brought up the case didn’t first question the meaning of the written words with Malik before bringing the law down on Malik.
Such a waste of resources for what most of us see as a simple English.
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How many Goondu and morons here understand that law is NOT English. It is like oil is not water.
The Clintons are law practitioners before Presidential aspirants. Ask Hillary Rodham Clinton if she
disgree with the Starr’s prosecution of her husband with these questions?
Bill Clinton said under oath : I never had sex with that woman.
when asked if oral sex is sex. What was Bill Clinton’s anwer?
Bill Clinton said: says “it depends upon how you interpret the word “is”.
Technically, Bill Clinton is CORRECT at law. Why?? Liberal use of just that word, sex, could get a man, well, impeached.
But was Bill Clinton impeached like Richard Nixon was? The honest answer is NO. Why no? Because politics were trying to demonize Clinton to make him a criminal when extra-marital is NOT a crime unless you are living in Iran or Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. The alleged “wrong” of Bill Clinton was “utterance” but his correct answer of sex depend on the interpretation “is” knocks everybody else from their chairs. Bill Clinton is right – IN LAW YOU DO NOT USE LIBERAL INTERPRETATION TO DEMONIZE AN ACCUSED TO FIND HIM QUILTY. LAW IS NOT ABOUT MACLICIOUS PERSECUTION IN ANY COMMON LAW JURISDICTION.
Has any dessicated coconut of malicious thought ever consider this fact – criminal law application is ALWAYS LOADED AGAINST the defendant and therefore courts are obliged to weigh evidence ‘beyond reasonable doubts” to arrive at a conviction. Where there is the slightest doubt, it is the duty of the court to acquit, not convict. The liberal interpretation of words to convict OFFENDS THIS LEGAL PRINCIPAL OF PROOF BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBTS. AND COURTS IN SO MANY JURISDICTION HAVE ALWAYS GIVE THE MIDDLE FINGER TO PROSECUTION WHERE THERE IS THE SLIGHTEST HINT OF MALICIOUS LITIGATION.
look at Daniel Ellsberg case of actual confessed leaking of Pentagon national security papers to the media. What did the judge said?
Byrne ruled: “The totality of the circumstances of this case which I have only briefly sketched offend a sense of justice. The bizarre events have incurably infected the prosecution of this case.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg
And in Australia, the alleged “terrorist” – Dr. Mohamed Haneef case?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhamed_Haneef
The maistrate threw out the charge without Haneef’s defence being called and in subsequent Federal Court (Full Bench) and High Court of Australia hearing, the prosecution was kicked in the balls by the Judges and Mohamed Haneef NOT even attending the proceedings.
The liberal interpretation of law to convict is utterly and abhorently WRONG IN LAW, forget the stupid English sexy interpretations of statutes
Has any dessicated coconut proved the legal framework of lawful determination found in Shepherd v Queen 1990 decision discredited in any Commonwealth jurisdiction or indeed any Common Law jurisdiction including USA and Europe?
Show me or shut up, stupid shits.
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Why is it necessary to constantly remind stupid shits that
The principle of reasonable doubt well expressed in THE Canadian Supreme Court decision in CLY v Queen in:
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2008/2008scc2/2008scc2.html
SAID THESE -
First, if you believe the evidence of the accused, obviously you must acquit.
Second, if you do not believe the testimony of the accused but you are left in reasonable doubt by it, you must acquit.
Third, even if you are not left in doubt by the evidence of the accused, you must ask yourself whether, on the basis of the evidence which you do accept, you are convinced beyond a reasonable doubt by that evidence of the guilt of the accused.
IT APPLIES IN ALL COMMON LAW JURISDICTION, IS THERE ANY NEED FOR EXCEPTIONS TO UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED LEGAL TENETS?
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AND THERE IS NO THIRD STANDARD OF PROOF IN THE COMMON LAW. The notion that the legal outcome depends on WHO is the defendant and/or WHO is the prosecuting party ( on the plaintiff side) is LONG DEAD AND BURIED TOGETHER IN THE GRAVEYARDS OF BRIGINSHAWS.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/journals/MULR/2003/13.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=title(Briginshaw%20%20and%20%20Briginshaw%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20)
The Briginshaw’s imperative in the Australian High Court decision 1938) 60 CLR 336. has LONG BEEN DISGRACED AND SIN BIN INTO THE DUSTBIN OF DISCREDITED LAW TENETS.
Why are idiots so stupid and malicious of seeking to revisit the ghostly inequities of law practices in this 21st century?????????
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MHA Director Toh Yong Chuan: “It is a serious offence to instigate violence or injury against another person. It does not matter if his target is a government minister, a journalist or someone from any other profession”
So, how come the police is not arresting Lee Kuan Yew?
Everybody knows that in my bag I have a hatchet, and a very sharp one. You take me on, I take my hatchet, we meet in the cul-de-sac. – SM Lee Kuan Yew, The Man & His Ideas, 1997
I will put on knuckle-dusters and catch you in a cul de sac… – SM Lee Kuan Yew, The Man and His Ideas, 1997
We are telling both management and unions – you play this game, there are going to be broken heads – let’s stop it. – CNA, 3 Dec 2003
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IF Abdul Malik had not declared his becoming a member of the SDP until AFTER this matter has been resolved, perhaps the charges would have been drop.
Now that he has declared his decision to be a member of the SDP – the charges will have to be made.
The proceeding of the charges against Malik is to ensure that he is eliminated as a possible candidate in the upcoming General Election – and more so when he is from the ethnic minority.
One less ethnic minority for the Alternative Political Party, and one less candidate to contest the Pro Alien Party.
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“Singapore biggest problem is PAP.” We will in big trouble if we do not fix this problem.Singapore biggest problem is PAP. We will in big trouble if we do not fix this problem.Singapore biggest problem is PAP. We will in big trouble if we do not fix this problem.
Singapore biggest problem is PAP. We will in big trouble if we do not fix this problem.Singapore biggest problem is PAP. We will in big trouble if we do not fix this problem.
SINGAPOREE’s GREATEST PROBLEM IS THE PAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thk u commentator, This will the true Singaporean rallying call!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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some people try to fast forward their careers, n so destroy our contry; they prostitute their souls n conscience, the poor pros sell their bodies, but they do not damage the contry; some falsely accuse them of corrupting morals.
these prostitutes r really corrupting our morals n destroying the integrity of a contry; don’t cry for me, argentina.
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I am shocked. Is Singapore police force an independent public service to uphold the law, or its purpose to serve politician agenda? Do a political party own a nation or the citizens of Singapore?
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Atobe
“IF Abdul Malik had not declared his becoming a member of the SDP until AFTER this matter has been resolved, perhaps the charges would have been drop.
Now that he has declared his decision to be a member of the SDP – the charges will have to be made.”
SDP is a legal political party, not an outlaw organisation.
If what you say is true, what does it tell us about the system here? That you will be let off if you belong to one political party and
prosecuted if its another one?
If thats the case, we must as well stop pretending to be a demcracy and discard away with the reciting away of the Pledge in schools and during ND!
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They will “find something” to dump the guilt on you. It’s so obvious any Singaporean can tell you that straightaway.
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“It is a serious offence to instigate violence or injury against another person. It does not matter if his target is a government minister, a journalist or someone from any other profession,” Toh Yong Chuan, a MHA Director wrote.
Far removed from the truth, it is a more serious offence to abuse authority by falsely accusing an innocent person to intimidate the public. I fail to see how Malik’s remarks could be taken literally except by monkeys to achieve their hidden agenda.
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