TR EMERITUS

These kids have to learn other religious subjects and not only english, maths, science. Aren’t we putting unnecessary pressure on these kids at such a tender age? Or is there a plan to make madrasahs just another weekend school for muslim kids?

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Dude, you serious about this?

I never supported the idea of the SAP school concept. It simply breeds Chinese Elitism. This is worse than normal elitism. At least normal elitism include everyone from other race.

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If this is a grievance of the Malay community it is important to address it. We have arrived at a stage where support for each other cross communal lines.

The primary approach has to be that ALL children in whatever school must be given the best opportunity to make it in life in Singapore. (This is different from preparing children for ‘after-life’ as some religious outfit tend to do). It is the primary and foremost responsibility of schools of whichever kind to give children the best education and also the responsibility of the government ALL children should be in well-funded schools.

We better nip this in the bud and not let any resentment fester in our midst.

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In order to break PAP dominance, at least 51% seats must go to all oppositions. Otherwise PAP still have the all/ last say of all policies they want to implement.

PAP being 49% will need to “consult” All Oppositions/ Native Citizens before any implementation of policies.This is what all Native Citizens want, have their says and be consulted. Not suka suka PAP can change policies, rules, gst, transport hikes etc so easily.

So my fellow men, remember we have to BREAK FREE from the iron fist of PAP once and for all so that all NATIVE CITIZENS will have a control of their lives and future starting from this coming GE!

Let everyone of us do our little part here by setting a target of reaching out to 5 persons a day. ie To tell at least 5 people/ strangers around us to read TR/ TOC or circulate below Detail Version article (more convincing and effective) every day. And assume 5 will multiply by another 5. That means 1 person everyday can reach out to 25 persons in Singapore. This will greatly increase the readership in a month and more Opposition Votes.

Folks, we need to reach out to as many Voters as possible in the coming months leading up to GE, convince them and get them ready to standby their Opposition Votes. We do not know if all wards will be contested this coming GE. But WE MUST ENSURE that we have majority ALL OPPOSITIONS VOTES to standby in all contested wards.

Assume 51% wards (seats) are contested, these 51% wards (seats) MUST WIN by ALL OPPOSITIONS which contest or ALL NATIVES WILL BE DOOMED if PAP Traitors dominate another 5 years. WE cannot afford to lose this coming GE.

So I urge all TR readers/ contributors here to do YOUR LITTLE PART every day to reach out to at least 5 people/ strangers around you.

Pls download this self explanatory and comprehensive article DETAIL VERSION and help to distribute to people / strangers around you to get more Opposition Votes

http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/10/27/an-overview-of-the-current-sociao-political-situation-in-singapore/

Like or Dislike: 0  1

May I urge fellow Chinese Singaporeans to support our Malay brothers and sisters in this issue.

Because PAP SAP schools had already created a bitter feelings among other races.SAP schools are PAP creations not ours.If PAP had just left the matter of Chinese education just to the Chinese we would still have our 南大 (Nantah University).Tan Lark Sye built it with our donations and Singapore Hokkien Association donated 500 acres.All gone now.

I see history repeating itself here.

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@维护和平

Nice nick!

I agree with you totally! Not just the SAP schools, the SAF also discriminates Malays. I was told by a Malay friend that he kena beaten by a second gen PRC in SAF.

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blockquote cite=”comment-247090″>

维护和平:
May I urgefellow Chinese Singaporeans to support our Malay brothers and sisters in this issue.
Because PAP SAP schools had already created a bitter feelings among other races.SAP schools are PAP creations not ours.If PAP had just left the matter of Chinese education just to the Chinese we would still have our 南大 (Nantah University).Tan Lark Sye built it with our donations and Singapore Hokkien Association donated 500 acres.All gone now.
I see history repeating itself here.

WE ARE WITH YOU BROTHER.

Our one and only Tamil High School entirely built on poor men donations was robbed by PAP.

The only Tamil High School in SEA whose cohorts are children from poor Muslims and Hindu port workers.It stood next to the Maxwell Market adjacent to Kadayanullur Street ,where the current URA building tower stands in splendor.

In 1982 it was acquired by the PAP government.In return the school was given zero money.Instead the School at the St George’s Road Tamil Language Centre was renamed Umar Pulavar Tamil Language Centre.Umar Pulavar Tamil Language Centre now in Serangoon Road ( occupying former Beaty Secondary School –Temporary Until 2011))

This government does not spare even the one and only Tamil school because it stood on a prime piece of land.

The URA benefited from the donations of poor families who donated to educate their children.The government paid nothing in return.

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Encik Yaacob, why you again?

Why we keep reading about you?

You have nothing better to do or what?

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if madrasah graduates fall behind other graduates; can’t get into good school for further education, and end-up in lower-paying job (or worse, no job), who are they going to blame ? their religious teacher ??

does really reasonable to expect a student who study 8 hours of religion n 2 hours of math, to compete with another student who study 4 hours physics, 4 hr of math, 4 hrs of english ?

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To the author,

Cannot fathom what’s the fuss here….please enlighten me.

Besides Madrasah,are there any Buddhist,Catholic/Christian and other religious primary schools that is stand alone? All of them have become mainstream under MOE,religious study is not 1 of the MAIN subject.Can do separately? No?

Was Wak Tanjong given reminders to pull up their socks?

Was other Madrasahs given the same amount of funding from MOE and MUIS? If yes,others are performing,then Wak Tanjong should do some soul searching and learn from others instead of griping.

I find it really disturbing when you said that Muslim children WILL grow up hating the Chinese majority…May I now whats the correlation? Why do you need Madrasah in the 1st place if you reckon it would cause social disharmony.Parents chose to send their children to Madrasahs rather than main stream primary schools,its their choice and they must take responsibilities for their children’s future.Aren’t they alienating their children? If the Govt allows Buddhist,Christian and Hindu schools like Madrasahs to flourish,outnumbered mainstream schools,can you even imagine what’s the consequences?

What is the relevance of Madrasah today?

*Please read threads from “Just Do It” and “Singaputra”.

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@Stupid Belief:
November 30, 2010 at 10:58 am

Stupid belief off course has not taken into consideration PAP’s racist policies where whatever your schooling, professional degree etc you wont get a job because of the color of your skin and your religious beliefs. Hey I am looking at you stooopid. Hey bodoh how many Malay SU/NUS etc graduates have to suffer although we competed in public schools.

So Malay parents might as well put their kids in schools of their choice. Hey Stupid probably cannot handle the madrassah curricula because kids do extra lessons over that offered in government schools. Its a tougher curricula idiotface–so there are legitimate concerns if young kids should have to go through it when they are so young.

And idiotface having lived ONLY in Singapore, think only to get jobs here. Stupid Stupid. Globalisation means the madrassa kids can live in other countries and work there. Off course we will be poor if we think we have to wait to be fed by LKY and his cohorts dumbo.

You live in Singapore but dont even know how the minority community lives, their aspirations etc and looking at them through your racist perspectives.

Stupid–only one perspective only one stupid view because PAP make you stupid and still see —stupid you can live and get a job etc etc. Dont we wonder how many stupid people now in PAP because of this stupidity?

Serve PAP right. Too many stupid Majority Singaporeans–that is why got to get FT to get PAP going. You dont think lah because you stupid.

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Yaacob Ibrahim :

We have so many christian schools yet……….

1 CHIJ Our Lady of Good Counsel
2 CHIJ Our Lady of Nativity
3 Paya Lebar Methodist Girls’ School (Primary)
4 CHIJ St. Nicholas Primary School
5 Catholic High School
6 CHIJ Primary (Toa Payoh)
7 Kuo Chuan Presbyterian Primary School
8 Marymount Convent School
9 St. Anthony’s Canossian Primary School
10 CHIJ (Our Lady Queen of Peace)
11 Methodist Girls’ School (Primary)
12 Pei Hwa Presbyterian Primary School
13 St Anthony’s Primary School
14 Holy Innocents’ Primary School
15 CHIJ (Katong) Primary
16 Haig Girls’ School
17 St.Stephen’s School
18 Geylang Methodist Primary School
19 Canossa Convent Primary School
20 Maris Stella High School
21 St.Gabriel’s Primary School
22 Cedar Primary School
23 First Toa Payoh Primary School
24 St. Andrew’s Junior School
25 Hilda’s Primary School
26 Anglo-Chinese School (Junior)
27 Anglo-Chinese (Primary)
28 Balestier Hill Primary School
29 CHIJ (Kellock)
30 St. Margaret’s Primary School
31 St. Joseph’s Institution Junior
32 Fairfield Methodist Primary School

This information is correct as of June 2010.

http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/admissions/primary-one-registration/listing-by-grc/

http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/admissions/primary-one-registration/listing-by-grc/

http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/admissions/primary-one-registration/listing-by-grc/

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Singapore in colonial times was the centre of Islamic learning. Please read among others William Roff’s excellent two books.

Then PAP came into the picture. I rest my case.

Today second and third generation Singapore parents send their kids to madrassa. There have been changes to the curricula to ensure that they receive an education comparable to that offered in government schools. Parents are not myopic. These are pretty much “self-help” efforts–showing much resilience in the community in the face of adversity.

After the first base here, madrassa kids may get scholarships to study elsewhere in a degree course or equivalent. Most are conversant n English, Arabic and Malay/Chinese–whatever their mother tongue. I think one needs at least a knowledge of three languages today to compete in the global labour market.

I believe many parents apply the Prophetic saying that one has to pursue education, even if it takes you to China. China metaphorically representing the further shores from the homeland.

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to “CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS, 32 continue enlist primary 1 Why ???? why ?:”

1. Their PSLE results are good.

2. They are secular unlike Madrasah,religious studies is not the CORE subject,they are main stream schools,is Madrasah main stream?

3. We have different races in all these Christian main stream schools.

and the list goes on….

Please argue with a little,just a little tiny bit of facts

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bank account! : )

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Sesame Street:
to “CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS, 32 continue enlist primary 1 Why ???? why ?:”
1. Their PSLE results are good.
2. They are secular unlike Madrasah,religious studies is not the CORE subject,they are main stream schools,is Madrasah main stream?
3. We have different races in all these Christian main stream schools.
and the list goes on….
Please argue with a little,just a little tiny bit of facts

We call this circular logic or begging the question.Simply no logic in this argument.Why?

Because nobody forces you to go a Christian school or a Madrassah School.You go on your choice.And why do you decide on that particular school?Because you like it for several reasons.

Hence a school exist on it’s popularity.Worse for private schools who are self financing.If a private Madrasssh school is that bad,it will close it’s door soon.You don’t have to close it’s door for them.

But the difference is that Christian schools are funded by PAP even though they maintain their Christianity but Madsrssah Schools are closed down even though they get no funding from PAP.That is the bone of contention.

Than the questions arises as to why this disparity.Though the Christians themselves has no hand in it.Or is it because there are more Christian ministers in our cabinet than others?That is what Tang Liang Hong asked too and he is now a fugitive.But Vincent Cheng ,Dr.Chee and JBJ are all Christians too.Therefore the answer is simple.

PAP wants to create this bitter feelings among religions.Closing one down while favoring other religious schools.Sort of playing the devil’s advocate.

The real culprit or the devil in disguise is the PAP.Not Christians or Muslims.

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I beg to differ completely. Many malays do not want to send their kids to the madrasahs, simply because the quality of education there is bad. THey want their children to survive in the real world and the madrasahs are not going to help in that in any way. Many parents in Malaysia are not sending their own kids to madrasahs in their own country for this reasons. THere is only an extremely small group where this concerns. THe zealots and tableegh jamaah families. Apart from that, no one wants to go to a madrasah. Even madrasah aljunied have a lot of discipline issues with students not wanting to adorn the tudung after school hours.

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Diversity is a Human Right: Please good Muslims, give details of back account for Madrassa Wak Tanjong. Or give url.I will try to get funds from Singapore Diapora as well. Is there a funding drive?Saleum

http://www.mwtai.edu.sg/

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i think this letter and “An Open letter to Mufti Fatris Bakaram” speak about the basis of the creation of MUIS. We must not have the belief that MUIS represents the Muslim community.

It is not about Christian school vs Chinese school vs Madrasah vs “normal” state-funded schools. No way that the madrasahs can compete with these schools in terms of PSLE average. For madrasahs, the pupils are studying not only Math, English, and Science, but also Arabic, Quran, Islamic History etc etc. PArents who send their kids to Madrasah have their own reasons, such as they want their kids to be Ustazah, Ustaz, ie, they want their kids to have a sound foundation of Islam, while the other schools are fully concentrating on Maths, English and Science. For Compulsory Education, PAP limits the intake of all Madrasah pupils to 400 only for p1 intake , and then PAP told the madrasahs that the pupils must take PSLE.

So the question is, if the PAP wants the students in Madrasah to also study/sit for PSLE, where is the adequate funding so that these madrasahs can source for teachers? If you think that these madrasahs can go to MUIS for help, then you are wrong. If you can remember, Madrasah Aljuneid (I think) went to court to ask MUIS to give back their waqf land, but the Madrasah lost because Singapore Law states that all waqf land must be handled by MUIS.

Anyway, in a nutshell:-
(1) Madrasahs do not get financial help from PAP (or is it inadequate? i’m not sure)
(2) But still PAP wants the Madrasah students to sit for PSLE
(3) Madrasah Wak Tanjung (MWT) said “I neeed THE MONEY”
(4) MUIS said ” Here $100, 000″
(5) MWT : “where got enough..must put aside for utility bills, teachers’ salaries, in-house programs..so where got enough money to recruit MOE-trained teachers to teach maths , Eng, Science.” (and teachers are paid directly from Madrasahs , not from MOE))
(6) MUIS :” Wah..your PSLE result very bad eh…2012 cannot take P1 cohort..”
(7) so MWT LPPL (army lingo)

I think this will be a vicious cycle..because the PSLE is getting more and more difficult each year…and also even if you have finished your education in madrasah, it does not mean that you will be an asatizah or Ustaz, because the certification is not enough for MUIS. If MOE has NIE, why dont MUIS has its equivalent or maybe a in-house diploma course so that these budding ustaz / ustazah could get their qualification?

Its not about the blaming who is at fault. But the question is what has MUIS done to the Muslim community?

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i guess this was what PM LHL meant by ‘moving forward, together’.

The ban will alienate the community. What not take on a different approach and provide good, aspiring teachers to the Madrasah / tweak its operations and try to make a difference ?

We Singaporeans should help each other regardless of our races as a priority, instead of blindly welcoming, accepting foreigners and helping them integrate.

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I am thinking if this can be a possible solution.

Convert Madrasah to become a mainstream school just like other ‘missionary’ Christian school. Get fund from MOE and allow non-Muslim to enrol.

The core mainstream secular subjects will be examinable while subjects related to Islam will not be examinable and taught after school hours. Grab those top 30% Malay Muslim students into the Madrasah which will help to rank the Madrasah among the top schools.

If funds is not enough, try to ask from Brunei gov or Arab gov which will love to donate to such causes.

Those ‘mainstream’ Madrasah primary students who show interest and excellent results to be streamed into full time pledge Madrasah.

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To “Institute of the Brothers of the Christian Schools:”

You said : But the difference is that Christian schools are funded by PAP even though they maintain their Christianity but Madsrssah Schools are closed down even though they get no funding from PAP.That is the bone of contention.

Is Bible studies a CORE subject in Christian schools? Nope…
I would like to reiterate my ealier posting,Christian schools are MAIN STREAM schools,there are students of different RACES and RELIGIONS.
Is Madrasah SECULAR? Obviously NOT because Madrasahs are RELIGIOUS schools,so don’t compare with other Christian schools.(Christian schools also receive donations from public and well wishers besides Govt funding)

So the pertinent question is…since Madrasah is a religious and non main stream school,should they receive the same amount of funding from Govt? If yes,then are we going to see other religious schools sprouting?

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@FullTimeMom,

Kids in Madrasah primary schools are taking 14 subjects ?!!!!!!

Am I shocked.

And I thought we had it bad in Chung Cheng High School .

You are right,PAP ministers will rot in hell for this.

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FullTimeMom:

I doubt if I personally cld cope with 10-14 subjects per yr.
Whatever it is, I personally feel that the PAP govt do NOT have the right to force Madrasah Wak Tanjong to stop its Pri 1 intake.What right does the PAP govt have to intefere with the running of our madrasah when in the first place, it doesnt even support these madrasah financially???

Are you sure Ma’m?

In Germany our government would be held responsible and the minister in charge arrested for abuse of children .

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How is it that Singapore Muslims who pay taxes in Singapore cannot ensure that part of their taxes go to madrassa education? Muslims pay double taxes one to PAP and one ‘personal’ tax by virtue of being Muslim. This may go to MUIS but most Muslims locate their own deserving causes.

The fact that mission schools do not teach religion as stated by “sesame..” (that is plagiarism from 1001 nights by Sherazade?) is not the fault of Muslims in this country. That is a decision by Catholics and Christians surely and because there is in your history a schism which calls for this situation.

Madrassa are schools by Muslims, attended by Muslims in the Muslim tradition and the teaching of Islam in the madrassa is part of the identity of these schools.

What this presents before us is an opportunity to consider creative options that will promote diversity in the country, respect for difference and choices.

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@Sesame Street:
November 30, 2010 at 6:08 pm

I believe you have a mistaken notion for the definition of a government funded school.Just ask yourself that suppose you start a school with a similar curriculum and a similar syllabus as any other main stream schools here,will the government fund you?And why are your three universities and some polytechnics are funded by the government even though they do not follow one singular standard ?Therein lies the answer.

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That’s why I salute the madrasah students cuz I doubt if I personally cld cope with 10-14 subjects per yr

As for Yakob Ibrahim, I have only this to say — Enjoy yr dirty millions in the company of yr kafir master as hellfire awaits u in the afterlife. Amiin!

Full time Mom is right. These students do take many subjects, the mainstream secular ones and their religious studies. This was implemented several years ago by the government…they made it compulsory for all madarsahs here.

Stopping Wak Tanjong from any Primary 1 intake from 2012 raises several interesting questions which has been left unanswered. Is this a temporary prohibition for Y2012 only or from Y2012 onwards. If it the from Y2012 onwards, then does it mean that 5 to 6 years from 2011, when all the Primary 1 kids in 2011 complete their 6 years of primary education in Wak Tanjong, in 2016, there will not be any more primary school students in Wak Tanjong. If that is the case, in 2016 or thereafter, Wak Tanjong cannot operate as a school because there is no secular education. Does this mean that Wak Tanjong will be closed down? Can someone who has more knowledge on this please enlighten me??

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That’s PAP for you. Divide and rule. Just vote them out next round please, for the sake of ALL Singaporeans, Malay, Chinese, Indians and Others alike.

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Especially to Stupid Belief and detractors,

There seems to be some misunderstanding over the real issues here.They are actually:

1. Madrasah students are children of tax paying Singaporeans. Why then can’t the government fund the madrasahs like they are funding SAP schools, for eg?

2. Why does the government allocate millions on scholarships, accomodation and other expenses to benefit foreigners when it will not provide adequate assistance to madrasahs? (“Kera di hutan disusukan sedangkan anak sendiri mati kelaparan).

3. What is the total revenue collected by MUIS anually from the various sources, especially from the waqaf properties it manages? And why is it so stingy to madrasahs?

4. Madrasah education is also a form of education and in many instances is better than mainstreams education in terms of human development.

5. Parents have their own reasons for sending their children to madrasahs and the government should respect their choice.

6. If certain aspects of the madrasah education are not up to standard why not take proactive and positive steps in helping the madrasahs to improve instead of having a blanket ban in recruiting pri 1 students?

7. Muslims in Singapore are not beggars. They have a very high self esteem. They are not even asking for special treatment. What they are asking are what they should deserve as citizens of Singapore.

8. Muslims in Singapore have enough talent and material assets in the form of waqaf properties. If MUIS cannot maximise the returns of the properties and is not fair in it allocation of the funds it has collected anually, wouldn’t it be better to allow the assets to be managed by other professional bodies who should be made answerable to a council of eminent Muslims appointed by the community? (The mechanism can be worked out among Muslims themselves)

9.If provisions in the AMLA are found wanting Muslims should press for its amendment.

10. The Muslim community in Singapore is ready, able and willing to manage its own affairs. They do not need to be told by the PAP as to what they should do and what is best for them. They strongly feel that if MUIS cannot do its job to their satisfaction they should be allowed to mind their own affairs.
They are tired of the stereo typing and insults levelled at them. The PAP’s siege mentality and its paranoia over terrorism, which in today’s contex refers to Muslims, have not been much help to the community.

It is time for the community to come together and act decisively and independent of the PAP, ie if you want to see real progress. Don’t allow ourselves to be humiliated and get only crumbs from the PAP.

And to “Stupid Belief” :Though there is nothing disrespectful about being a despatch rider, the majority of dispatch riders are not madrasah drop-outs. More likely than not they are from the mainstream education system.

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### : Sesame Street:）
November 30, 2010 at 6:08 pm Sesame Street(Quote) and
### : Institute of the Brothers of the Christian Schools:”

1) Please do not mix religion into normal schools. And that is the underlining statement here.

2) PSLE result impressive, does it help ?

3） We have ministers scoring A’s in their study, are most singaporeans better off today ?

4 If $$$$$$ is the issue, we believe the international Muslim community are more than happy to help finance Madrasah Wak Tanjong.

5) If school results are the main cause then some main stream schools also need to be closed for good because their students are showing bad results as well.

Schools shall always be schools
Religions are always Religions

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Thanks TR for having this article… I love reading the comments.. We should have more articles related to the Malay Muslim community so that we can know what other Singapore think about our issues and also share with them our thoughts…

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Sorry but there’s a quota of 300 students going to all 6 madrasahs right? And this Madrasah’s closure does not affect this quota. In fact, because of it’s closure, the other 5 madrasahs have to expand. So there isn’t any actual loss in opportunity for kids to go to these madrasahs other than perhaps a further distance to their school.

Not sure why the issue about the Government and Madrasah funding and whether the claims are right. But Gahmen gives it to MUIS to control Madrasahs directly, under MOE supervision. ‘cos some Muslims want a really authentic Islamic education. So it’s pretty hard to convert it to a mainstream school. That would pretty much defeat the point of having an authentic Islamic education.

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It’s the economics, stoopid!!!

PAPies don’t want hundreds or thousands of ex-madrasah students who don’t even have firm foundation of basic secondary education, and can’t even get into ITE or polytechnics, hence being jobless, marginalised and dis-enfranchised. Thus becoming prime candidates for radicalisation and ultra-religiosity-zealots with feelings of injustice in S’pore. PAPies don’t want to give handouts to such people. But they also know that if such a situation is reached, they will have to waste money to support these people, hand-hold them and their families, spend millions of dollars to re-train them and get them into jobs that can offer sufficient pay to live in S’pore and raise their families. PAPies do not want to be in this situation. Therefore the emphasis right at the madrasah primary school that the students can pass their PSLE english, maths and science. Studying 10 or 14 or 50 subjects is besides the point. The point that PAPies want to know is whether at least 90% of your students are able to make it to ITE, polytechnics and Universities?

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I agree with Willow that Malaysians, ex-Singaporeans who have benefitted from the NEP bumiputra policy should desist from making comparative analysis. And Msian non Malay FTs here.

From other threads in TR on concerns affecting Singaporean minority Malays and Muslims, these comparative comments may serve to alienate us further.

What Malaysian-oriented commentators here and in Malaysia do not appreciate (or they are bent on aggravating the discussion into an anti-Malay rhetoric) is Singapore Malays have had to face the brunt of the Malaysian NEP policy as justification of our further marginalisation because PAP can. Why should we be subject to racist-based attacks by Malaysians and exMsians here (FT) who are still smarting from the uneven implementation and continued bumi policy of the Umno-led Barisan National in Malaysia?

While we are cognisant of the Malaysian political-historical events–the tragic May 13, which brought forth the NEP bumi policy, it does not mean that we in hoardes want to be Malaysians to take advantage of this. Some Singaporean Malays and Indian-Muslims have benefitted from this by being Malaysians because Musa Hitam (former Dep PM Msia) was a uni friend when they studied together in law school in Singapore (inside info) or they legitimately became Malaysians by virtue of a provision in the Federal Constitution which allows ANY Singaporean born after Merdeka Day (before separation) to apply to be Malaysian when one of their parents is a Malaysian citizen (Malaya) at their birth. Are Msian FT here in Singapore upset with this constitutional provision as well and hit us with racist comments?

C’mon these are your Malaysian politics and we invite you to fight this out in your own home turf. You have our blessings. I believe a good percentage of Malaysian Malays have now accepted the fact that the NEP is controversial and should not be continued in that form. And you guys working here are offered PR status just after three months! PAP has been good to you. You are paid from all our combined taxes including minorities.

Please RESPECT our space and RESPECT our civil society discussions out our Singaporean identity and diversity. If you want to contribute to the discussion, we welcome civility.

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@Parameswara:
December 1, 2010 at 12:29 am Parameswara(Quote)

What has MARA, UITM etc etc got to do with Malay Singaporeans? U mean what Sg Gov does is a tit-for-tat of what Malaysia does to its miniroties?

Is that how our policies are implemented? Gosh…I would rather have monkeys and dogs in parliaments.

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Let’s assume that the government gives the Madrasahs all the fund it needs.

Let’s assume that they produce 500 religious scholars every year.

Can someone please enlightened me on what all these scholars are going to do?

Does the community really needs 500 religious teachers every year?

And what happens to those who are not employed as religious teachers?

As it is, Malaysia and Indonesia have thousands of unemployed religious teachers in their own countries with too much time on their hands.

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@a little puzzled:
December 1, 2010 at 11:05 am

I have madrassa schooled relatives who have first degrees in computer science, political science, design etc.

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pls add @kojakbt too.

nothing heard from these guys about their support for your cause .

and yet they claim to fight for ordinary folks.

are malays not people for them?

and what happened to Goh Meng Seng malay bureau ?

my other suggestion is to form an exclusive malay political party for malays only.

of course your party may not win any election by yourself.

but your alliance with any other political party will guarantee malay votes.

your best interest lies in your own political party.

do not depend on 75% chinese to help you,whether that be PAP or WP or RP.

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do you really need an enemy with friends like this?:
pls add @kojakbt too. nothing heard from these guys about their support for your cause .and yet they claim to fight for ordinary folks. do not depend on 75% chinese to help you,whether that be PAP or WP or RP.

I see your point and agree with you.We Indians watched how things unfolded in Malaysian politics and therefore are wiser now.For more than 50 years BN ruled Malaysia like PAP.But Malaysia had active oppositions like PAS and DAP.But Chinese and Indians generally did not vote for them even though they bitched around like no tomorrow.Till HINDRAF,the Malaysian Indians,took to the streets by thousands.Overnight everything changed and DAP,PKR PAP ,the oppositions parties,made history in Malaysia by capturing five states and denying the BN the crucial two third majority in their parliament.

And you would have thought finally the oppositions would take care of the Malaysians Indians right?Wrong !It became worse.Just watch this video how Anwar treats Indians by sending a thuggish servant to crumble their petitions and throw it away .One would be SHOCKED !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzfyUt3wWEM&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzfyUt3wWEM&feature=player_embedded

Anwar treats Indians worse than UMNO after winning elections on Indian votes.

That is what would happen to Singapore Malays too.Once the voting is over and the oppositions gain enough seats on Malay votes.I have no reservation about that.The Singapore Chinese just wants your votes.They care two hoots for Malays or their Madrasah schools.Just be smart and play the oppositions against the PAP.That is my advise for Malay voters.

Nobody will help the Malays.You have to help yourself.Your power lies in your votes.Make sure it counts.

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KNN:
It’s the economics, stoopid!!!

It’s the 75% ,stoopid !!!

It’s as simple as that.Evey one of our problem revolves around keeping Singapore above 75% Chinese at all cost.The foreigners policy including closing down Madrasah schools is because of this 75% policy.If there is a critical Malay population here they don’t have to depend on Chinese employing them.Malays managed themselves pretty well here for thousands of years.

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உதயகுமார்:
I see your point and agree with you.We Indians watched how things unfolded in Malaysian politics and therefore are wiser now.For more than 50 years BN ruled Malaysia like PAP.But Malaysia had active oppositions like PAS and DAP.But Chinese and Indians generally did not vote for them even though they bitched around like no tomorrow.Till HINDRAF,the Malaysian Indians,took to the streets by thousands.Overnight everything changed and DAP,PKR PAP ,the oppositions parties,made history in Malaysia by capturing five states and denying the BN the crucial two third majority in their parliament.
And you would have thought finally the oppositions would take care of the Malaysians Indians right?Wrong !It became worse.Just watch this video how Anwar treats Indians by sending athuggish servant to crumble their petitions and throw it away .One would be SHOCKED !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzfyUt3wWEM&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzfyUt3wWEM&feature=player_embedded
Anwar treats Indians worse than UMNO after winning elections on Indian votes.
That is what would happen to Singapore Malays too.Once the voting is over and the oppositions gain enough seats on Malay votes.I have no reservation about that.The Singapore Chinese just wants your votes.They care two hoots for Malays or their Madrasah schools.Just be smart and play the oppositions against the PAP.That is my advise for Malay voters.
Nobody will help the Malays.You have to help yourself.Your power lies in your votes.Make sure it counts.

You are so right…..in one of the post here in TR, there is one KNN who is pissed off about job ad which require its applicants to be able to speak Bengali……

I am just wondering if he gives a hoot if that same job asked for Mandaring-speaking instead?

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सोनिया: @FullTimeMomMy respect for Madrasah schools went sky high after reading your post.I always had this notion that Madrasah schools are breeding grounds for terrorists who mucks only the Koran day and night.No thanks to Bush and CNN.Now I know better.Malays should come out and enlighten us more often.Why don’t you people contribute articles to TR so that we can better understand Malays?

Hi there!
I’m glad that u learn something new today. Yes, many people have this misperception abt Islam and madrasahs/islamic school (no thanks the the biased media/govt).
Actually, I personally feel that these islamic schools/madrasah provides a more wholesome education. On top of the usual secular subjects like those taught in the mainstream school, they also teach:

Quranic Studies :

Hifz / Tilawah with tajwid: Learning, reciting and understanding of Quran
At-Tafsir: Memorization of Quran
Ulum Al-Quran: Sciences of Quran
Al-Akhlak: Moral studies
At-Tauhid : Doctrine on the Oneness of God
Al-Mantiq : Studies on Logic

Al-Fiqh :
Usul Al-Fiqh: Origins/Fundamentals of Law
Al-Qawaid Al-Fiqhiyah : Normative Legal maxims
Al-Hadith / Mustalah Al-Hadith: Narrations originating from the words and deeds of the Islamic prophet Muhammad s.a.w (and the classifications)
Al-Faraidh : Islamic laws of asset distribution

So, as all of you can see, isn’t the madrasah teaching good things for our children, in fact, a more well-rounded/wholesome education? And to think that these kids learn all these at such tender age, while we the secular-educated adults more often than not, do not even have any inkling abt the way the world works, what is logical/what’s not, our own country’s history, our own country’s laws etc.

Let me say it again — I really salute our madrasah kids!!! And to some detractors in this forum — No, all these knowledge does more mean the madrasah students shd end up as religious teachers. We all studied Science/Math/History in School, but do we all end up being Scientists/Mathematicians/Historians???

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another racist policy construed by them…

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Well, tough! I dont condone selfish racist, chinese chauvinist who only look after his own interests whilst disrespecting the rights of others, especially the minorities…read his other posts…

Cheers,

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@Sporean

We must come from different schools because the Christian school I attended had teachers and students actively evangelizing all the time. One time one of my schoolmates was caught committing a minor disciplinary offense (hair too long kind) and he was wearing a Taoist amulet although he was a “Christian” because both of his parents were of different religions. The acting principal of the time (who was a Malaysian btw) berated him soundly for wearing the amulet as he was a staunch evangelist without regard for any of the feelings of the Taoists.

The fact that this episode stuck so clearly in my head after so many years is the sheer arrogance of the principal and his fanaticism to his religion. Don’t know whether evangelism is still on-going in these “secular” schools or not.

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We are being kept in line and forced to live our lives by the govt’s rules.. and what next? dictate religion to satisfy your own liking and suitability?

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FT Mom,
You have made my participation in this forum much more easier by posting most of the points which I had in mind but did not have the time to express them earlier. For that I thank you.

Although some others here may test our patience by their bigoted views we should remain cool and present our arguments rationally. Don’t be too emotional or your valid points will be lost. At any one time there is bound to be those with racist tendencies who will provoke you to no end.

As Muslims are also citizens of this country I see nothing wrong in asking the government to help fund the madrasahs. We have no objection should the government also decide to fund schools run by citizens of other faiths as long as they are also Singaporeans. It is better than just provide fundings for foreigners.

I have said in my earlier posting that there should be a proactive effort to find out what is lacking in Madrasah Wak Tanjong so that remedial action can be taken. Can the Minister or MUIS let us know whether the madrasah had truly underperformed in its traditional role or it just did not do well in the PSLE.

To enable the community to get a clearer picture on this issue the following questions need to be asked:

a)Is the $100,000 (per year?) sufficient?
b)How did MUIS arrive at the figure?
c)How much was given to the other madrasahs (Aljunied, Irsyad, Al Arabiyah and al Ma’arif) respectively?
d)What factors are taken into consideration to determin the amount? e)What is the annual amount given to all the full time madrasahs and other part time madrasahs run by mosques and other institutions?
f)What percentage of MUIS annual income make up the amount given to these madrasahs.
g) How many percent of the revenue derived from the waqaf properties were channeled to madrasah? and last but not least.
h) How much money is actually given by the government or any at all?

Singaporeans should also know that Malays no longer qualify for free education. For more than 20 years now funds that were used to pay for the education of the Malays (as had been done since colonial days) were transferred to Mendaki. Strict criteria were put in place before funds can be disbursed to Malay families for their children’s education. One of the criteria is that their family income (note family income – not income of the bread winner) must not exceed $3,000.00 before children in the family can qualify for the funds. And the ceiling has remained for the last 20 over years without any adjustment.

In today’s context where both parents are forced to work to make ends meet the $3,000.00 ceiling makes little sense. It is much worst if any of the children starts working. Most likely than not many Malay families will find that they do not qualify for the funds. We have Sidek Saniff to thank for this brilliant idea.

Again I wish to reiterate that we are not beggars. We are only asking for what is due to us as citizens. We have our own funds. Every cent spent on building of our mosques come from us through the check-off system.

The funds must be properly managed and allocated fairly to the various institutions. Zakat collected must be allocated according to the asnafs. Again, if properly managed the needs of the poor among us can be largely met. Since the MUIS revenue is a recurring one we should fear that the amount will be depleted. MUIS must be more transparent and forthcoming to the community. There should be nothing to hide.

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(Minor correction)

The funds must be properly managed and allocated fairly to the various institutions. Zakat collected must be allocated according to the asnafs. Again, if properly managed the needs of the poor among us can be largely met. Since the MUIS revenue is a recurring one we need not fear that the funds will be depleted.

MUIS must be more transparent and forthcoming to the community. There should be nothing to hide from the community which is the actual owners of the funds.

I wish also to respond to those who subscribe to the PAP thinking that we should muster the Chinese language and culture in order to do business with China to justify the existence of SAP schools.

Students of SAP schools may end up as leaders running the government. And without friends from the other races and devoid of interaction with the minorities in their growing up years they may not understand their fellow citizens and race relations may take a turn for the worst as a result.

Many countries are doing business – big business – with China without having to master the Chinese language and culture. As a matter of fact more and more Chinese are learning to speak English.

Should India overtake China in future must Singaporeans – to follow PAP logic – then have to immerse themselves in the study of Hindi and Indian culture? And what about our neighbour Indonesia? We must never under estimate Indonesia’s potentials as a future economic power. If I were the PAP I would seriously promote the learning of bahasa. After all it is the national language, isn’t it so?

Nation building must not take the form of making money alone. It should be much more rounded. Only then can loyalty to the nation be effectively instilled. When too much emphasis is put on chasing after money citizens will migrate to where there is more money to be made. And Singapore will be doomed.

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Salaam LPPL & SingaPutra,

Thanks for yr kind advice. I hear u and I agree with u. It’s just perhaps unlike u, I have not yet reached that level of patience/iman… and maybe that’s the reason why my mom who is a Chinese Hokkien decided to send my youngest brother to Madrasah Wak Tanjong after seeing how a secular-educated like myself and my other brothers turn out to be

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I linked this thread in my fb. Here are the comments made by my friend who used to study in Madrasah Wak Tanjung. it would be better if i’m able to show the screenshot of our conversation, but how?

R.A. :i frm madrasah i knw,if have we wud have better facilities,resources,teachers,ccas,dont need to do fund raising every yr at masjid time jumaat prayers just to kp e sch runnin…even field trip we students save money..every event we try to do oso frm our own budgets or e teachers pooled e money…like hari raya celebration etc..do u knw during my time we had no science lab? every week 1day aft sch go to the newer madrsh aljunied & pay them to rent their lab & things.

ppl ask me y i get c6 for english,its nt because of my grammar its cos my teacher was dying of cancer & we had no other qualified english teacher to guide n advise us, considering how pathetic it was, i think most of my batch went on to finish diplomas/degrees alhamdulillah.

NY (teacher in a govt school): yes, it is very sad indeed. My dept budget was more than the whole madrasah’s yearly budget.

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LPPL:
I know people have rights in their opinion, but as a Muslim, we should “preach” with hikmah..with beautiful “preaching”,

Kawan,sad to say this but your approach cuts no ice with the majority of us.Even Gandhi’s non violence method has it’s peaceful protest element.Nothing works without protests.

Just get all the students and their parents of Madrasah Wak Tanjong to protest in front of MOE and I guarantee you results.The last thing this PAP government wants is a native Malay protesting on streets .Because Indonesia and Malaysia and the entire Muslim world would be watching.An advantage you Malays have which we Chinese do not.Tell me ,will China interfere if local Chinese protest?

This is where we sincerely hope our Malay brothers and sisters can help us to bring this tyrannical government down.You have a very valid reason to protest on the streets and that would get the ball rolling.Soon local Indians and Chinese will follow.

Hey,@FullTimeMom,we love your type of passion and fire.At least I can assure you of Chinese votes though can’t speak for Indians.Will be glad to see you as a candidate in the coming GE as for any opposition party.You got what it takes to be in politics-passion with compassion.

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维护和平:
Tell me ,will China interfere if local Chinese protest?

Yes,China and Singapore protested to Indonesia in 1998 over Indonesian Chinese being abused there.
Indonesian Muslims also protested against China’s crackdown on Uighur Muslims in China.

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LKY has demonised Malays and Muslims for protesting in the streets re Maria Hertogh (Natra) and the Prophet Muhammad’s birthday celebrations (Maulod Nabi) aeons ago. Some claim these were engineered by unsavory elements linked to particular interest groups.

There will not be a “Hindraf” Malaysia version of Malay and Muslim protests in Singapore because the Muslim faithful here do not want to give PAP any reason to use a peaceful protest to strengthen their autocratic rule by putting protestors under ISA or jailed for non compliance of a “moving-on order” under that new amendment to the Public Order Ordinance to worst to invite Islamophobia in the population. This will further isolate the community from the mainstream.

We look forward to the day when all Singaporeans think discrimination and marginalisation of ethnic communities offend their sensibilities as a citizen. If that is manifested in a joint protest of Singaporeans of all persuasions and ethnicity–that is something else.

I look forward to Singaporeans claiming our freedoms.

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If any of the opposition parties think that this is an issue which they as a govt-in-waiting should take up because they want to be representative of the community which is a section of the electorate, then they should certainly consider it.

As a general rule, any group which feels that its concerns are legitimate as citizens and tax-payers, should certainly explore all possibilities with any other similarly minded group, organisation and political party to ensure that voices are heard and grievances addressed.

This thread have indicated that the community and groups or parents with grievances have been engaging with the political party which is in government and here too are quoted instances of where the aspirations have not been met.

It is not difficult to envisage why this community has for a ling time engaged with the PAP–its because there has been no other party in power. Some other commentators in this thread and in related posts have noted the nature of the powerful state and the consequences of any minority voices speaking out.

Whether there will be engagements beyond the usual, remains o be seen. If there is to be one, then the support of other civil society groups, NGOs etc might be necessary. A recognition that this is not a Malay/Muslim grievance per se but a Singaporean concern because of the human rights issues involved like diversity, freedom of religion, right to education, right to speech and association etc — might sour new ways of looking and engaging for Singaporeans working for change.

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blockquote cite=”comment-248570″>

Faceless:
LKY has demonised Malays and Muslims for protesting in the streets re Maria Hertogh (Natra) and the Prophet Muhammad’s birthday celebrations (Maulod Nabi) aeons ago. Some claim these were engineered by unsavory elements linked to particular interest groups.

Here is the real account of Maria Hertogh (Natra) riot.

It was between the British colonists and Malay/Muslim community.A foremost colonial struggle much before PAP came into being.There was already much tension because a Dutch born girl who was brought up as a Muslim and married to one.She was not only being separated from the Malay mother who brought her up by trickery but also converted to Christianity.In short,this incident was a protest against colonial religious and racial insensitivity.

But that did not start the riots.It began because an Eurasian officer unwittingly draw his gun and fired first .This was taken as a truce between the Muslim leaders and the British colonial power broken.But what really started the mayhem was the British police who insisted on entering the Sulatn mosque in their boots to search for weapons while a rowdy crowd awaited outside.In between the British troops arrived on the scene and started to fire.All hell broke loose.

But PAP tells you a different story.They make it as if it’s a racial and religious riot.It was not.In fact the Chinese offered financial help because the Muslim communities were fighting the colonists.
Another central figure here was an Indian Muslim called Gani.He was a brilliant scholar who read and writes in seven languages .He was fiecerly an anti colonist.He was eloquent in English,Arabic ,Malay ,Tamil and Urdu .He united the many splintered Muslim organizations in Singapore into one.

This was one incident where the organizational skill of an Indian Muslim and the critical mass of Malay Muslims acted as one.This is something that did not fit into the British divide and rule agenda.Therefore,this incident was blown out of proportion.Tunku Abdul Rahman saw it as a colonial struggle but UMNO of JB branch saw it as not their problem.

Several Malays and Indian Muslims were sentenced to death.But Tunku Abdul Rahman and David Marshall with his brilliant legal mind was able to commute the death sentences.But Gani was banished to Pakistan because the British feared his presence in India.

Please do not fall for PAP version of history.The truth is somewhere out there.Just search for it.

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To begin with,I’m not pro PAP,just want to voice my opinion,interesting topic,thats all.

Singaputra : As Muslims are also citizens of this country I see nothing wrong in asking the government to help fund the madrasahs.

Madrasahs are religious schools,isn’t it? So you’re saying that Govt should be funding all other religious schools as well? Buddhist,Hindu,Christian,Taoist,Sikh…etc.
I’m not against Madrasahs but everyone has a choice.Other Madrasahs make the cut but not Wak Tanjong,do you know why? Check out the root cause…is it just about funding? Other Madrasahs have the same amount of funding too,don’t they?

Oh,1 more thing,SAP schools offer other languages besides Mandarin,there are Malay,Tamil,Hindi…etc.I reckon majority are Chinese students is no fault of Govt.Are you saying that the admission criteria is unfair or disadvantage to minority students?

———————————-

Full Time Mom : my mom who is a Chinese Hokkien decided to send my youngest brother to Madrasah Wak Tanjong after seeing how a secular-educated like myself and my other brothers turn out to be.

How you turn out be is not solely due to mainstream school,there are many other factors.Goodness me,based on your argument,all Madrasah students must be angels!

Full Time Mom: U studied science and maths etc…but u didnt end up being a Scientist nor a Mathematician,right?

Funny argument…Science and Maths are core subjects,useful in everyday life.

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Sesame Street: To begin with,I’m not pro PAP,just want to voice my opinion,interesting topic,thats all.</PFull Time Mom : my mom who is a Chinese Hokkien decided to send my youngest brother to Madrasah Wak Tanjong after seeing how a secular-educated like myself and my other brothers turn out to be.How you turn out be is not solely due to mainstream school,there are many other factors.Goodness me,based on your argument,all Madrasah students must be angels!Full Time Mom: U studied science and maths etc…but u didnt end up being a Scientist nor a Mathematician,right?Funny argument…Science and Maths are core subjects,useful in everyday life.

Soory to dissapoint u, Sesame Street, but honestly the conduct and morals of these madrasah kids are wayyyy much better than yr average Sporean kids. Go mix around with them and u will understand what I mean.

Sure, Science and Maths are useful in everyday life and so are Moral Studies, Law, Doctrine of God and Studies on Logic!!!

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Eric How??:
This is for their own good, less chance of growing up to become islamists and terrorists!

Yea, news flash buddy, the guy who sat right beside you, who’s a muslim, who went to a madrasah, yea, he’s a terrorist. he’s hunting you down right now and he’s planting a bomb in your asshole.

The fuck??? You think madrasahs breed terrorists?
Idiot.

For everyone’s information, terrorists are what muslims call “lost muslims”. they don’t follow the teaching of Islam. Islam doesn’t promote violence. By killing the innocent, by slaughtering men how they would slaughter a sheep, they have “stepped out” of Islam. So stop having the misconception that terrorism links to Islam. Terrorists are by no means muslims themselves.

Idiot.

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KNN: Thanks for all the responses. You just confirmed the suspicion & impression that PAPies have of you. Btw, what did you do for your fellow children in islam for the past few years when they were struggling in the madrasahs? Did you donate generously to madrasah wak tanjong for them to afford better teachers and facilities? Did you volunteer to teach the kids and give them extra tuition? Did you even know that those children are having problems coping with studies? Did you even bother to ask the children if they really like studying in madrasahs? Or are you just projecting your wants & so-called ideals on children who cannot answer back? I seriously doubt you even gave a hoot in the past 5 years. If just 70% of madrasah students can go into poly or uni, I bet you that the govt will open another 20 madrasahs and give each school $500M budget. The madrasah cannot even achieve the minimum standard for PSLE, which is very watered down for madrasahs already. You expect the govt to throw good money after bad? This is not a charity. You have hundreds and thousands of unemployed ex-madrasah students — if they marry then it’s even worse, affecting their children and propagating the vicious cycle. Are you giving 50% of your take-home pay to support them? Are you bringing them into your condo to house them? Rather then just resorting to seige mentality and blaming others and lashing out like some street gangs, why not you put your money where your mouth is? Money talks and bullshit walks. Ahhh, but when it comes to money, all of you just keep quiet right? Donate 20% zakat can already right? If you are not prepared to sacrifice and make the right decisions, then don’t blame anybody else when there is no improvement. And btw, studying is not for the sake of studying alone. There must be a purpose. Studying of secular subjects like maths, science, biology, physics, chemistry etc at primary or secondary school level is not to become scientist or mathematician — what kind of retarded thinking is that?!? Studying these subjects at lower level is merely to impart basic knowledge, but more importantly to get students started on the path of critical thinking, of applying the scientific method, of always questioning, of inquiring, of not simply accepting whatever a mullah says, or a priest says, or a monk says — to test, to observe results, to discard ideas and concepts that no longer work, to try new things — this is the main purpose of education, otherwise might as well migrate to inner M’sia or Indonesia to become subsistence farmers — you can still raise a family. Btw, mathematician or scientist don’t really earn big bucks — at most only $20K/mth if you can lick balls & play politics to become chief scientist or head of division. The big bucks are earned by top bankers, medical specialists and corporate lawyers.

In Australia, the govt set aside funds like The Government Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA)to support the funding of madrasah such as Australian International Academy http://www.aia.vic.edu.au/home/

The Australian govt is wise enuff to recognize the importance of education, be it alternative or mainstream. They not only lend financial support but also their management & teaching expertise.

As of 2007 the Federal legislation requires all schools to report on key performance indicators in order to comply with the Australian Government Programmes for Schools Quadrennial Administrative Guidelines. The Australian govt will work together with schools (be it secular, christian or madrasah) who are deemed weak to improve their performance (and NOT force these schools to shut down/stop their intake like the MOE/MUIS are doing here).

So perhaps the likes of KNN is much wiser than the Australian govt?!! Maybe KNN shd advise the Australian govt not to fund these weaker madrasah/christian schools as in his own words— hundreds of thousands of these madrasah kids will be unemployed!

In another thread KNN complained that the govt agency shdn’t waste taxpayer’s money to advertise for a translator job that requires proficiency in Bengali but it’s ok not to use taxpayer’s money to fund madrasah eventhough the parents of the madrasah’s kids, its teachers, staff and pricipal are all taxpaying Spore citizen?!! See, the double std here! And what kind of retard will make noise on an ad that requires a translator to be able to speak Bengali (not his bloody mother tongue) when obviously the job entails dealing with community/clients who speaks Bengali??!!! Why not open his big mouth to complain abt practically all the job ads in Spore that requires one to speak Mandarin (to disguise the real discrimination policies)??? Typical of selfish chinese chauvinist who’s double std and only look after his own self interest. Now that all these INDIANs and CHINAmen start stealing his/his community rice bowl, then he wants to kao peh kao bu! Why don’t he invite his chinese community into his overpriced HDB pigeon hole???

Funny that some people think Top Bankers, Medical Specialist and Corporate Lawyers are earning big bucks. No wonder Lee Kuan Yew keep chiding people like KNN for not having entrepreunial spirit, no spurs in the hides…Open a company, venture overseas, than maybe, just maybe u will stop kao peh kao bu so much after u can afford to buy yrself a pte property in 1 lumpsum in cold hard cash in Spore…so yeap, like u said it — Money Talks, Bullshit Walks…. now shoooo!!!!

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维护和平: Hey,@FullTimeMom,we love your type of passion and fire.At least I can assure you of Chinese votes though can’t speak for Indians.Will be glad to see you as a candidate in the coming GE as for any opposition party.You got what it takes to be in politics-passion with compassion.

Thanks for yr confidence. Unfortunately, I have washed my hands off this worldly pursuits…FYI, since 30 yrs ago, my dad was a member of an Opposition party…believe me, not only was his life hell, but our entire family’s life was hell too Now I am spending my early retirement in the quiet company of my family and doing some small bits to help the community in terms of volunteer & charity work. I leave the politics to the really capable ones like KJ, Dr Wee, Dr Chee!

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@memecahkan masalah sekarang: December 2, 2010 at 11:20 “Time and tide waits for nobody.Hence I reckon what the Malay community needs here is action and less talk.What say you?”

I think the talking as you put it, has been within the community of Muslims. There was a spell some years ago on the furore over PAP trying to gain control of madrassa but it died. (Like control of endowments) I do not know the full story. Whether parties were intimidated in the usual way by ISD and moles screaming “extremism”. I do know that some people (friends of friends of friends, by word of mouth) took their kids out of madrassa to study in Australian madrassa or schools.

The talking in TR is a new development. It is good to have it out again to a wider audience. Thus is not reinventing the wheel. Its a new outreach. I am sure the issues have been sorted out and a plan of action or blueprint for change is already done. Its just waiting for wider support.

And true, action is on the ground and not in cyberspace. Some of us, new to TR or new to the issue would probably be on the ground to make the contribution to strengthen existing efforts.

Thanks to TR and thanks to persevering Muslim friends.

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LPPL: I linked this thread in my fb. Here are the comments made by my friend who used to study in Madrasah Wak Tanjung. it would be better if i’m able to show the screenshot of our conversation, but how?R.A. :i frm madrasah i knw,if have we wud have better facilities,resources,teachers,ccas,dont need to do fund raising every yr at masjid time jumaat prayers just to kp e sch runnin…even field trip we students save money..every event we try to do oso frm our own budgets or e teachers pooled e money…like hari raya celebration etc..do u knw during my time we had no science lab? every week 1day aft sch go to the newer madrsh aljunied & pay them to rent their lab & things.ppl ask me y i get c6 for english,its nt because of my grammar its cos my teacher was dying of cancer & we had no other qualified english teacher to guide n advise us, considering how pathetic it was, i think most of my batch went on to finish diplomas/degrees alhamdulillah.NY (teacher in a govt school): yes, it is very sad indeed. My dept budget was more than the whole madrasah’s yearly budget.

I’m so sad to hear this. I remember in the past, Wak Tanjong was trying to move into its present premises. It had bought the land but had no funds for constructing the building…so we all chipped in..i donno what it’s called (waqaf?) but they “sold” the schools by blocks/pillars. So 1 block = a few hundred $, 1 pillar = $1000 or or so…

It’s kinda sad that sometimes we are so engrossed in helping the poor and aged, we kinda forget this segment of society. So yesterday I called the school to ask what kind of help they require and I will post the feedback when i get them.

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Sorry, I meant to write — Medic Officer.

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Typo.

True,Islamophobia is still great boggy man.But not in this region where Chinese centric DAP and Islamic centered PAP are working hand in hand in Malaysia.

should be:

True,Islamophobia is still great boggy man.But not in this region where Chinese centric DAP and Islamic centered PAS are working hand in hand in Malaysia.

btw;couldn’t imagine PAP to be Islamic centered right?

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FullTimeMom:
December 1, 2010 at 4:48 pm FullTimeMom(Quote)

“Quranic Studies :
Hifz / Tilawah with tajwid: Learning, reciting and understanding of Quran
At-Tafsir: Memorization of Quran
Ulum Al-Quran: Sciences of Quran
Al-Akhlak: Moral studies
At-Tauhid : Doctrine on the Oneness of God
Al-Mantiq : Studies on Logic

Al-Fiqh :
Usul Al-Fiqh: Origins/Fundamentals of Law
Al-Qawaid Al-Fiqhiyah : Normative Legal maxims
Al-Hadith / Mustalah Al-Hadith: Narrations originating from the words and deeds of the Islamic prophet Muhammad s.a.w (and the classifications)
Al-Faraidh : Islamic laws of asset distribution”

#Very lofty curriculum indeed. No one is going argue with that. In fact Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF9Qwz-An4I&feature=related) or whatever religion can also come up with such stuff. No one has really gone OVER to come back and say whether such “studies” are useful. Religions are at best kept at one’s faith level. If we start at the infant level then it might just for life. Man is a habitual creature.
We on earth are more convinced by OUTCOME. There are about 200 souvereign countries on the planet.
A THIRD WORLD country or developing country is characterised by a low standard of living with poverty in all shapes and forms ranging from abject hunger to the sky as their roof.
Now just show us ONE Islamic country being a FIRST WORLD or DEVELOPED country with all the superb learning you have mentioned being taking place in the madrashahs prevalent there (let alone Saudi Arabia with its black gold).
In fact the world only gets to know of madrashahs from Pakistan and Indonesia (JI) exporting terrorism. Right?

We are intelligent people who fortunately didin’t attend the BTN course. You are not “Mom”. More than that . . . . Right?

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@മാതൃഭൂമി:
December 2, 2010 at 9:40 pm

Brother,

1. Ruling party in Malaysia for what its worth will not, like PAP ransom that community for decades down the line

2. Lawyers from the Malaysian Bar provided pro bono representation for arrests of those involved in the protest

3. The opposition parties in Malaysia have supported Hindraf’s concerns and invited individuals to join the opposition (for the persistent commentator who kept posting that Anwar?PKR ripped off a Hindraf memo/such like, the Anwar supporter had publicly apologised for his folly–this is up on alternate media).

4. Human rights NGOs supported the protest and memos

5. The Registrar of Societies will allow registration of a collective from Hindraf to form a political party

Which if the above or all of the above can be relied upon in Singapore anytime soon?

Are you making tracks to support the cause as a start?

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what are the functions of education?

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Kambing: FullTimeMom:December 1, 2010 at 4:48 pm FullTimeMom(Quote)“Quranic Studies :Hifz / Tilawah with tajwid: Learning, reciting and understanding of QuranAt-Tafsir: Memorization of QuranUlum Al-Quran: Sciences of QuranAl-Akhlak: Moral studiesAt-Tauhid : Doctrine on the Oneness of GodAl-Mantiq : Studies on LogicAl-Fiqh :Usul Al-Fiqh: Origins/Fundamentals of LawAl-Qawaid Al-Fiqhiyah : Normative Legal maximsAl-Hadith / Mustalah Al-Hadith: Narrations originating from the words and deeds of the Islamic prophet Muhammad s.a.w (and the classifications)Al-Faraidh : Islamic laws of asset distribution”#Very lofty curriculum indeed. No one is going argue with that. In fact Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF9Qwz-An4I&feature=related) or whatever religion can also come up with such stuff. No one has really gone OVER to come back and say whether such “studies” are useful. Religions are at best kept at one’s faith level. If we start at the infant level then it might just for life. Man is a habitual creature.We on earth are more convinced by OUTCOME. There are about 200 souvereign countries on the planet.A THIRD WORLD country or developing country is characterised by a low standard of living with poverty in all shapes and forms ranging from abject hunger to the sky as their roof.Now just show us ONE Islamic country being a FIRST WORLD or DEVELOPED country with all the superb learning you have mentioned being taking place in the madrashahs prevalent there (let alone Saudi Arabia with its black gold).In fact the world only gets to know of madrashahs from Pakistan and Indonesia (JI) exporting terrorism. Right?We are intelligent people who fortunately didin’t attend the BTN course. You are not “Mom”. More than that . . . . Right?

Kambing,

I’ve once overheard a Spore Chinese police officers shooing some indian foreign workers along serangoon bus stop by yelling at them, “Kambing”…a pig shooing “kambing”… funny scene….are u part of ISD?

Anyway, let me rephrase yr question instead…Why don’t u tell us why non-muslim countries like Africa, North Korea, some parts of Eastern Europe, even yr beloved motherland China are not 1st world countries???

Since some chauvinist chinese kept questioning the usefullness of certain types of education, we might as well ask MOE to scrap music lesson, home economics, technology and design etc fm our own secular schools…afterall what “economic” benefits wld these lessons brings in the job mkt, right??!! And while u are at it, why not shut down Sports school and NAFA too!

Hell, I studied Psychology, Law, MCA, FCA etc as part of my varsity curriculum, but do I end up being a Psychologist, Lawyer, Accountant???

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But Kambing,

U are right on 1 thing — I’m not just a “MOM”… at least not the typical one who mops around the house, read shitty times n the holy berita harian, who only cares abt the well-being of her children/husband, hardly travel the world, let alone lives abroad…so mind and eyes closed to reality n different perspectives of life…

No, I’m more than that.

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@Faceless:
December 2, 2010 at 10:35 pm

You keep on harping on what you and your Malay community cannot this and cannot that because of this and because of that.For heavens sake tell me what can you people do?

I was simply suggesting that you people organize yourself to vote Yaccob Ibrahim out of his office.Is that so difficult?

Instead of spending time whining here.Why can’t you people organize your people.Start with a dozen volunteers..And let the dozens become hundreds and the hundreds becomes thousands.

The goal is simple.Go and meet the people and explain to them how Yaccob Ibrahim had let your community down.So vote him out.

No need to protest on the streets.No need to join any political party.Nothing illegal.Why can’t you people do it?

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Bang Balls:
December 3, 2010 at 2:55 am Bang Balls(Quote)

We are not saying over the years private or whatever religious schools don’t produce even A star. We are merely concerned that the MAJORITY there aren’t receiving sufficient cognitive knowledge and lifeskills that will enable them to MAKE A LIVING in this ditigital age.
Surely, you must have read frequently that kids who DON’T even attend any school but learn at home go on to Prinston and other top universities. Right?
One swallow doesn’t make a summer. Right?
There are fortunately exams scores for non-BTN experts to analyse. Singapore thrives only on its human capital as she doen’t have any mineral resources and no economies of scale to compete in this business world. And people like you and me must live; not living off handouts, right?

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维护和平:
Malaysian Chinese had also become our pain in the neck too.

I fully agree with you on this matter of Malaysian Chinese being trouble makers wherever they go.Malaysian Indians will testify to that.They learnt the hard way after helping to put DAP in power in Penang.The first thing these Malaysian Chinese did was to sell the one and only Indian heritage village in Penang.I am glad Chinese Singaporeans are not the same.

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@KNN:
December 3, 2010 at 1:17 pm

Are you a Malaysian Chinese?

Has all the right ingredients though.

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dear KNN

if you cant win a debate, dont resort to vulgarities and personnal attacks… it just shows what a loser you are.

dear full-time mom

you have steered this discussion to such a level that i must say you are great. hats off to you

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“I beg to differ. Singapore is free of the water blackmail from Malaysia (threat given despite our having 14% Muslim Malays here?). Malaysian migrant Olidia Lum has given us NeWater. Today Singapore even gets revenues from exporting its technologies. Ex-Malaysian like AG Chan has helped Singapore make sure Pedra Branca and not Pulau Batu Puteh be recognised at the UN. Many, many more . . .”

What BS. Olivia Lum or not, the technology originated in America. Ms Olivia Lum did not invent the technology or even improve on the technology. Any other company can be sub-contracted or outsourced by the PAP government to build the water-treatment plants.

Chief Justice Chan was born in 1937 and come here when he was EIGHT years old.

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CT (FTMum or watever clone):
December 3, 2010 at 4:31 pm

Do gGet your facts right. Hopefully not BTN I heard of. Most Singaporeans are highly knowledgeable.

“The former AG Chan was born on 5 November 1937 in Ipoh, Perak, in Malaysia. He came over to be admitted to the Bar on 31 January 1962.”

“Despite the difficulties in Malaysia, Lum was a top student. She scored seven As and one B for her Malaysian examinations. Her schoolmaster at Pei Yuan Secondary, on seeing her potential, advised her to go to Singapore – a city which presented more opportunities for advancement in life. So in 1977, armed with only $10, Lum made her way to Singapore. When she first arrived, she bunked in with her former Kampar neighbours in a rented shophouse in Chinatown. After rounds of rejections by several schools, she finally gained admittance to Tiong Bahru Secondary School. To finance her education and daily living expenses, she gave tuition during weekdays and peddled wares on weekends.
In 2001, Hyflux earned the honour of being the first water treatment company to be listed on SESDAQ, and in 2003, they moved over to the mainboard. The company has since inked several major deals, including the building of Singapore’s first seawater desalination project, and their business interests have expanded beyond the shores of Singapore to China, the Middle East, North Africa and India.”

No point be envious of others. We’ve to stive as the world doesn’t owe anyone a living.

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Educator wrote:” For those narrow-minded ones who claim that Madrasahs create more terrorists,…”

What ‘Educator’ wrote is true of the madrassahs in the past but the scenario has changed drastically since about 20 years ago. Educator would do well to take notice what role radical Islamists have played in giving Muslims a bad image.

A learned paper publshed by the Brookings Institution think-tank on the role of madrassahs gives a blow-by-blow account of how extremists took over the Islamic education system.

“Today, there are as many as 45,000 such schools within Pakistan (the exact number has never been determined), ranging in size from a few students to several thousands. Importantly, these new schools tend to teach a more extreme version of Islam than what had been propagated before. They combine a mix of Wahabism (a puritanical version of Islam originating in Saudi Arabia) with Deobandism (a strand from the Indian subcontinent that is anti-Western, claiming that the West is the source of corruption in contemporary Islamic states and thus the laws of state are not legitimate)”

‘Pakistan’s Madrassahs: Ensuring a System of Education not Jihad’
http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2001/11pakistan_singer.aspx

Rafiq Ahamed’s article is unduly harsh on Yacob Ibrahim. If he is pleased with the madrasahs’ performance in PSLE, how can it be said that the Singapore government has an agenda against madrasahs?

The policy concerning Madrasah Wak Tanjong is purely based on whether the religious school can give a basic education to the children to equip them for their future.

Evidence seems to suggest that the madrassah is below par.

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KNN: What we have here is a FT Mom that is demanding that ALL taxpayers in this country to continue pouring our blood-sweat money into a FAILING school that produces students who cannot even pass primary school, DESPITE this school being repeatedly given chances to buck up year after year…have their blood taxes & GST be thrown into the BLACK-HOLE of a failure school. Become a free full-time teacher to get those kids to PASS primary school exams. We’re not even talking about C grades here, D grades good enough..

U know why the PAP have u by the balls??? It’s because you are the typical SG idiot who believe whatever is written in the Straits Times as the gospel truth.

1. U claimed that this particular madrasah keep failing year after year. But have u really made any research to find out the reason why and the criteria set upon the school? Have u looked at other alternative sources like the school’s annual report etc?

FYI, starting 2008 the Wak Tanjong madrasah had to comply with MOE’s benchmark. The target set was 175 aggregate. Now according to their annual report,
based on their pri 5 results on these 4 national core subjects, they had surpassed the target. However, the school made a terrible mistake when they decided to retain abt 1/3 of these Pri 5 students because they did not do well on their other islamic-related subjects (as the school strongly believes that students need to pass both the secular (national 4 core subjects) and the islamic-related subjects ..(50-50 concept).On top of that, a few of their students had transferred to a secular school. So by 2008, only abt 2/3 of the original Pri 5 co-hort (from 2003 pri 1 intake) was allowed to take the 2008 PSLE. If based on this 2/3 aggregate score, they wld have achieved the MOE’s 175 aggregate benchmark.

But lo and behold, that 1/3 who were retained in Pri5/had transferred to secular school was still considered as 2008 PSLE co-hort eventhough they didn’t even sit for the 2008 PSLE exams like the rest of the 2008’s batch.

To make things worst, the random aggregate allocated to them was based on the WORST performing aggregate by students from NATIONAL (secular) school i.e. 87 aggregate each student. Now, u include these 1/3 ghost students’ aggregate of 87 points each and lump them with the other 2/3 who already surpassed the MOE’s benchmark of 175 points, what do u get??? Sad, isn’t it???

2 important questions here:

Q1: Why that 1/3 students who didnt sit for the 2008 PSLE be counted as the 2008 cohort (eventhough they were still being retained to re-do their Pri 5 and why are the results of those who had already left that wak tanjong madrasah before the 2008 PSLE sitting are being lumped together too with that 2008 batch? Didn’t make any sense, does it???

Q2: Why are these ghost students being attached with the LOWEST national aggregate score??? Wouldn’t it make more sense to attach the median national aggregate to these ghost students instead??? In fact, wouldn’t it make even more sense to attach the median aggregate of the 2008 madrasah students PSLE cohort (instead of NATIONAl lowest aggregate)..

But I guess the wak tanjong madrasah learnt a very painful lesson that year. So starting 2009, they no longer retained students— as long as they passed the 4 national core subjects, they get promoted even if they didn’t actually make it for islamic subjects/arabic language. So in 2009, the entire cohort who sat for the 2009 made the MOE benchmark (passed).

So, pls do some research before u start shooting yr mouth and point fingers at the students/schools.

It’s just like PAP winning through GRCs and Walk-overs… can I blame u too???

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The last thing,we need is a foriegn trash,like u,who incite hatred.We certainly have certain issuse’s within the ruling party,they have failed to deliver.We will vote,in the oppostion (who’s policy’s had been postivtie).we don’t need in the engage in any form of activity,that will undermine our nation or cause hatred between ourselves.We will like,to see harmonious,strong singapore society.Go back to the thrash-hole,you come from………may allah save our land,from trash like u…Majula singapura

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Diversity is a Human Right: Please good Muslims, give details of back account for Madrassa Wak Tanjong. Or give url.I will try to get funds from Singapore Diapora as well. Is there a funding drive?Saleum

Hi, there! Thank you for yr kind gesture.

I think if u want to donate, u need to email the school so that they can give u the bank details.

1. Funds

According to some past students (from various madrasah in Spore), funding is serious issues affecting many madrasahs in Spore. Many of these students were made to sell things like dates etc to raise funds. I think they do such fund raising 3-4 times a year. But still they are in huge shortage. I think to run such school wld cost abt $SGD 2 million annually and they barely get any support from MUIS/Govt. Like someone wrote earlier — abt $100k annually?!! The madrasah students are also not allowed to use their Edusave unlike those in secular schools.

2. Staff

Due to lack of funds, no wonder these madrasahs are having hard time attracting MOE trained teachers. So maybe if u know of any ex-teachers who are willing to give their time as (1) permanent teacher (2) relief teacher or (3) tutors/home tutors, I am sure it will benefit the school.

It’s better if these teachers are familiar with the MOE’s syllabus cuz an old friend of mine who used to volunteer in 1 of these madrasah once claimed that assistance fm MOE is hard to come by as they are told to go through MUIS for their needs. So because of that, sometimes they do not have the latest updates on the MOE’s syllabus fast enuff. As for Teacher’s Guide, I heard that even when they offered to purchase these Guides, they were not able to. Strange, huh? Why make life so difficult for these schools…aren’t these madrasah kids also Sporean citizens who are entitled to a decent education???

(3) External vendors

I learnt from a relative who used to work for a company that providse enrichment programmes/ mentoring services to a few schools in Spore, that they also provide such services to such madrasahs. Some of these charges are like $400 per mth per student for 10 wks of English/Maths/Science. And most of these kids/madrasahs cannot afford such amount.

So, if any of u have such company or know of such company and wld like to help, maybe u can contact the school directly to see if they still need such help. Or if u can even dedicate yr time to personally conduct intensive study for 5-10 wks before these kids sit for their PSLE or other exams, I think it will greatly benefit them.

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Its sheer stupidity when KNN and others keep thinking that its “entitlements” that Malays here are gunning for. I suppose the information is too tough for a PR to understand because all he/they can compute about Malays are seen through the prism of their unhappiness over the Malaysian NEP. And this colors their understanding (or sheer lack of it) of anything Malay.

To be sure this thread should close because KNN etc cannot contribute anything further but keep going back to the same thing and not engaging with the conversation. OMG these FTs are pretty dumb, but as long as they’re Chinese, they are kosher in Singapore.

Thank Goodness for so long the Singapore Malays have always looked out for themselves despite all odds. And when Malays are insisting on equal opportunities over Chinese or FT preference–even this scares these idiots because its their rice bowl being affected and wait a minute what if the world knows that Spore Malays can actually do their jobs better. That would be dangerous eh?

I have Malaysians telling me that they’ll pick a Singapore Malay anytime for work ethics and integrity. We know the score and glad to know our options but our family is here in Singapore.

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veritas:
Educator wrote:” For those narrow-minded ones who claim that Madrasahs create more terrorists,…”
What ‘Educator’ wrote is true of the madrassahs in the past but the scenario has changed drastically since about 20 years ago. Educator would do well to take notice what role radical Islamists have played in giving Muslims a bad image.
A learned paper publshed by the Brookings Institution think-tank on the role of madrassahs gives a blow-by-blow account of how extremists took over the Islamic education system.
“Today, there are as many as 45,000 such schools within Pakistan (the exact number has never been determined), ranging in size from a few students to several thousands. Importantly, these new schools tend to teach a more extreme version of Islam than what had been propagated before. They combine a mix of Wahabism (a puritanical version of Islam originating in Saudi Arabia) with Deobandism (a strand from the Indian subcontinent that is anti-Western, claiming that the West is the source of corruption in contemporary Islamic states and thus the laws of state are not legitimate)”
‘Pakistan’s Madrassahs: Ensuring a System of Education not Jihad’ http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2001/11pakistan_singer.aspx
Rafiq Ahamed’s article is unduly harsh on Yacob Ibrahim. If he is pleased with the madrasahs’ performance in PSLE, how can it be said that the Singapore government has an agenda against madrasahs?
The policy concerning Madrasah Wak Tanjong is purely based on whether the religious school can give a basic education to the children to equip them for their future.
Evidence seems to suggest that the madrassah is below par.

You are referring to Madrasah’s in regions where the teachings of Islam can be sometimes misleading. If without a proper education of Islam creates perception of madrasah’s creating terrorists, what more from non-Muslims who know nothing and refuse to learn about what Madrasahs are like?

I understand where you are coming from, that the madrasah is not performing up to par, but the original argument is that why isn’t the authorities giving the madrasah the appropriate funds for it to achieve better grades? They are asking for transparency of funds in order to at least understand the situation of the funds, but this is not granted to them.

On another hand, who are we to say that without a good PSLE, a child from a madrasah or from any other school, get a decent job? We cannot say for sure, can we?

And for those who say that Mathematics and Sciences are more useful in real life than Islamic Studies, know you not that, as I have mentioned earlier, that Algebra and Alchemy came from Muslim Scholars, Mathematicians and Scientists? BBC has a 3 part series on Science and Islam, each part an hour long. I will even put up the link here. If you sincerely want to find out about how Islam pioneered the investigative process fundamental to Science, I strongly encourage you to watch all the parts following this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-n2BoPE2GE

PR CITIZEN:
This sheikh might be terroist,singapore should lock him up like mas selamat.

It is people like you who stir up fear unnecessarily and prevent people from knowing more about something they fear because they do not understand. So please, stop saying such things. A Sheikh is usually a Muslim Scholar who has done his studies and extensive research and preaching on Islam. Please respect them as scholars.

My salam and peace to the Muslim brothers and sisters here.

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A Malaysian friend was animated when I shared the rant against FT in Singapore. He said the fact that the PAP “give” scholarships to Malaysians and foreigners showed that the locals are stupid.

I was surprised by his tirade and was taken aback as well because I dont think he knew a hell of a lot of Singaporeans to have this opinion of Singaporeans. I am from an ethnic minority working in Malaysia on a short contract here so I guess my Malaysian friend felt ’safe’ talking to me.

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