Biggest CPF investment suffers massive loss

I refer to Bloomberg article, “Disappointed with UBS loss, Singapore’s GIC fund cuts stake”. [ link ]

GIC is now paying the price for speculating in UBS at the height of the subprime crisis. With government blessing, GIC had pumped in S$14,000,000,000 into the unknown only 3 days after it had received an SOS from UBS chairman.

In 2008, GIC had claimed that its investment in UBS was “unique“. Really?

GIC had invested CHF11 billion in December 2007 and converted the notes to 230 million shares 2 years after UBS shares had collapsed. Taking into account the CHF2 billion in interest payments, GIC would have invested about CHF9 billion. Including dividends over the last few years, GIC can be considered to have invested in UBS at about CHF37 per share. (for ease of calculation, use CHF instead of S$)

 

Lee Kuan Yew: “We are buying something that we intend to keep for the next two to three decades and grow with them.”

But in less than one decade, CEO Lim Chow Kiat now tells us that “conditions have changed fundamentally since GIC invested in UBS in February 2008” and would rather “redeploy these resources elsewhere”. Lim has hinted that GIC plans to dispose of the losing UBS investment soon.

Lee Kuan Yew should have known that markets are not static but why did he not take this into account but assured Singaporeans that UBS was for the long haul? Was LKY talking cock or engaging in half truths to prop up our confidence in GIC’s speculation?

Including the 10% plus forex gain, GIC would have still incurred a capital loss of about 50% over almost one decade or 5% a year.

CHF appreciated against S$ by about 10%

 

If GIC could lose money on the biggest CPF investment, how does it recoup gargantuan losses from other much smaller investments? Is this the reason why it has increased the size of its regular bets to billions of dollars? Is this also the reason for CPF OA rates to stay at 2.5% for more than 2 decades?

Who gave the green light? Tony Tan? Why has no one from GIC been held accountable for losing billions on a single investment? Were they investing or just tikam tikam, knowing there will be $20 billion plus in CPF for GIC to speculate every year?

Why is GIC afraid to disclose other investments which it claims have been profitable, making 4% real returns over 20 years? Or are there too many pock kai investments too pai seh to disclose?

 

Phillip Ang

* The author blogs at LikeDatOsoCanMeh.

 

 

 

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55 Responses to “Biggest CPF investment suffers massive loss”

  • Neo:

    As usual:

    No blame culture
    May cause undue panic
    Happens once in 50 years
    Can’t be help
    Don’t have 20/20 cocksight
    It shouldn’t have happens but sorry it had
    It either happens or not happens
    What to do? It happens
    Not in the interest of the public to know
    It’s peanuts
    What do you think?

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  • C'est la vie:

    *****
    LKY said, “Life is what you make of it. You are dealt a pot of cards. Your DNA is fixed by your mother and your father. Your job is to make the best of the cards that have been handed out to you. What can you do well? What can you not do well? What are you worse at? If you ask me to make my living as an artist, I’ll starve; because I just can’t draw …… But if you ask me ….. to argue a point out, I’ll get by. (Those are) the cards I was handed out, and I make use of them. Don’t try to do something you are not favoured by nature to do.”

    For a nation that hangs on this “man’s” every word, the last sentence speaks volume of the transgression that has taken place, and the so called “pragmatic” man himself has equally steered away from his own dna and “pot” of cards.

    Suffice to say, the man has always talk the talk and he was right, only in as far as using “pot” to describe the Govt …….. a totally “tin pot” outfit, having a load of “unsuited” and “un-dna’ed” individuals taking up ministerial positions, which they are not “favored by nature to do”, and this will include, investment positions too, of course and I don’t need to elaborate the eligibility of a “daughter-in-law” whose background is engineering !!!

    The last word must be earmarked for the ever “pragmatic” man who drifted beyond his very own nature himself and despite being an “artist” of sorts, painting the “skewed” version of Singapore and his “policies” to his people and the world …….. he never did starve, did he !!!

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  • VTO2020:

    SDP esp Dr Chee had sounded the alarm and warning many times over the last few years.

    Nobody esp those IB and supporters of PAP cares and thought it was another lunatic’s call. Not that this is no hindsight wisdom and chinese calls it 马后炮,事后孔明。

    Now, this proved to be real and no wonder our CPF withdrawal has been delayed and postponed many times over with minimum sum ever increasing.

    I am putting a VTO2020 ahead. Anyone cares to join this VTO.

    VTO2020

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  • haha:

    Well, LKY is long gone, and some of his “long term strategic thinking” is no longer applicable.

    UBS is in trouble, but it is not an absolute basket case. It still has over US$1.6 trillion dollar worth of assets under its management. And so dividend for GIC will still come in at about 100mil CHF per year.

    That so called US$4 billion loss, after factoring all dividend interest payment for the pass 9 years, is about US$500 a million. So overall the loss is quite small, since both GIC and Temasek Holding are earning S$10-S$12 billion a year in net interest return from its trillion dollar reserve.

    Ironically, there are still investors willing to buy UBS shares, so there is opportunity for further gains. European banks also do need to consolidate and reduce its trillion Euros debt overhang, if not, best stay away from European bank shares.
    ,

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  • Oonself masturbate Oonself:

    Majority ASSUMES that because of PAST PERFORMANCE, the PRESENT and FUTURE do not need ANY CHECK and Balance.

    Some may ask, is “Ownself masturbate ownself ” oxymoron.
    Let me educate.
    Masturbation can be :
    1. Unilateral.
    2. Bilateral.
    3. Multilateral

    But I not referring to FTA.

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  • Oonself masturbate Oonself:

    Neo:
    As usual:

    No blame culture
    May cause undue panic
    Happens once in 50 years
    Can’t be help
    Don’t have 20/20 cocksight
    It shouldn’t have happens but sorry it had
    It either happens or not happens
    What to do? It happens
    Not in the interest of the public to know
    It’s peanuts
    What do you think?

    Just say BOH BIAN. That answers everything. You will accept everything.

    Eg. If you see a building on fire, just say Boh Bian and move on.
    If you see GIC make huge losses. Just say Boh Bian and you will move on.
    If you see town council investment fiasco, just say Boh Bian.
    If you see WP ineffective , just say Boh Bian.
    If your job lost to ft, just say Boh Bian.
    If you get sacked, say Boh Bian.
    If your wife have fun with another man, say Boh Bian.
    If you see someone being bullied, say Boh Bian.
    If you see a daylight robbery, just say Boh Bian.

    Yours
    Boh BIAN porean.

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  • rukidding:

    After going thru and witnessing how this PP Government handles the SGH Hepatitis incident, the Little india incident, the Mas Selamat incident, the Bus Workers strike in yishun…..

    …I think we should more or less know what will be the answer for this GIC losses in UBS.

    a) Lets move On !

    b) Learn from this mistake ?

    c) Nobody’s Head will be “chopped” ?

    d) Holy Jinx …nothing will happen !

    e) Life goes On…

    f) Changes in Cpf withdrawal age will probably happen.

    g) Many more increases in taxes ( ardy happenning) to “help coverup or fill up” the “BIG Hole”

    …..Pity our Dafts !

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  • MarBowling:

    Lee Kayu aka the Horrible Man who had one hand that covered the HOLE SKY in RD during the 2007/2008 GFC must be the Bugger(who else but he ONLY)who gave the green light to plough taxpayers’ hard earned monies into ultra toxic ang mo financial products!

    With this fiacking report of the massive loss, the HM must quietly smiling inside his urn! Say only for FUN, every one scambles to carry out his instruction! Those jokers must be adhering to his CB command w/o using their discretion and brain! Just stick to thr HM’s pearls of wisdom: do what is Right(even though it’s WRONG, must be Right if HM said so)don’t care or listen to what other people say and what’s wrong with collecting more money!

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  • oxygen:

    DOES THOSE HOT AIRS who made those GODDAMNED STUPID decisions to buy global banking stocks know the kindergarten elements of banking and/or economy post the GFC?

    For a start, when banks “bail-in” the tonnes of UNKNOWN BUT ESCALATING bad debts when the credit cycle turns, the losses will ONLY BE SUSTAINED BY SHAREHOLDERS or the acquirer in a takeover acquisition. Bank Of America (BOA) took over Merrill Lynch (ML) when the latter didn’t know the full extent of the mounting losses which is escalating by the seconds and minutes in a day. John Thain, the former CEO was sued by regulators for financial fraud of allegedly putting out repeatedly “false public declarations” of ML’s true financial position in that BOA takeover BUT NOT CONVICTED AT LAW – rightfully so. He was and still is totally INNOCENT. At each point of his public statements/announcement of ML’s financial solvency, he was right to the dot AT THAT POINT in time. But the market meltdown of financial assets means that ALL HIS VALUATION OF ML’s financial assets in its book is also CURRENTLY MELTING of values. John Thain was catching the wind or living on a moving feast of evaporating asset values (hence the deterioration in ML’s balance sheet). As soon as he put out statutory announcement of ML’s financial solvency, it is OUT OF DATE and reality the next minute!! The GFC deceived him, NOT him deceiving investors and market participants.

    In those circumstances, Sinkieland BOUGHT global banking shares – HOW MORE STUPID CAN THOSE DECISIONS BE??

    On economics, it is even more stupid, failing banks with melting assets either got acquired or bailed out by central banks and CBs cannot bail out each and every banks – against another cancer deterioration infecting the entire banking industry. TO SAVE THEIR OWN ARSE, they shore up their own doubtful borrowers because write-off endangers their own banking insolvency liquidity requirement. That means banks MUST UNDERSTATE their loan losses and FORTIFYING those near dead borrowers. To keep them alive for recovery forward, banks have to even LEND MORE MONEY TO THOSE DYING BUSINESS WHICH OTHERWISE WOULD HAVE COLLAPSE but increased lending is ON LOWER MARGIN LOWER INTEREST RATE. You then get stuck UNABLE TO TURF OUT THIS DYING BUSINESS that could survive ONLY BY REASON OF CHEAP FINANCING. For the lending banks, it is PILING BIGGER RISKS ON TOP OF BAD RISKS.

    SO HOW CAN THERE BE ANY FUTURE IN BANKING after the GFC?

    When the credit cycle turns around of rising interest rate – the end of 30 year bull bond market – interest rate will climb back up AND THIS WILL KILL ALL THOSE MARGINAL BUSINESS hurting banks again.

    UBS INVESTMENT IS DEAD LOSS STUPIDITY.

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  • rukidding:

    @haha9.52 am,……

    ya lor,….net, net we are still in the black ?

    Ghee,….this kind of answer ?

    Notice how the “meekness & dead silence” ???

    Although still “in the black”…nobody from P.A.P. camp, nor GIC… “dares” sound out in their usual “loud trumpet” broadcast ?

    More like “Bo Pian”….better “keep a low profile” and “not still up too many dust” ?

    What a mark contrast when they were “witch hunting” against AHPTEC ?

    Politics at Pappy’s Best !!!!….Hyprocites indeed !

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  • Bernard K:

    Back in 2007: GIC’s deputy chairman and executive director, Tony Tan Keng Yam, told reporters in Singapore that “we made this significant investment in UBS because we have confidence in the long-term growth potential of the bank’s businesses, particularly its global wealth management business.” He added, “GIC’s preferred practice in respect of our public equity investments is to take relatively small stakes in companies for portfolio diversification. However, we made this significant investment in UBS because we have confidence in the long-term growth potential of the bank’s businesses, particularly its global wealth management business.” (Forbes 12/10/07).

    Now lets compare this to what Warren Buffet did in 2007. He made a bet with a frd (from Protégé Partners) that a low-cost S&P 500 index fund administered by Vanguard will beat any of his top 5 hedge funds. And the average for the five funds (whose names have never been made public) is 2.2%. In total gains, the index fund is up 85.4%. The average gain of the five funds is 22%. (The best performer of the five is up 62.8%. The worst performer—over nine years, remember—has been mind-bendingly bad: up only 2.9%.)

    Is buying into ‘elite’ UBS another ‘meritocratic’ psychological and mental handicapped so prevalent in PAP? Buffet has certainly known since 2007 that just coz u pay a higher management fee dosent mean u get better returns. Why don’t we just park our CPF funds with Buffet? GIC is just another of the over rated and over paid ‘asset manager’.

    Secondly, there is also a technological and domestic development in asset management. The growth in online platforms for self-investing and the proliferation of information and expertise advice online. There are an estimated 79,000 Mutual Funds and 1700 Exchange Traded Funds. A significant number of these are local or domestic funds in emerging markets that challenge the roles played by traditional wealth managers liked UBS.

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  • Bad investment:

    UBS is a really bad investment…

    Sad for Singapore…

    Need to be more careful when using other people hard earned money…

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  • talented re-balancing act:

    //how does it recoup gargantuan losses from other much smaller investments? Is this the reason why it has increased the size of its regular bets to billions of dollars? Is this also the reason for CPF OA rates to stay at 2.5% for more than 2 decades?//

    aiyoh. the magical words (only can fool all those daft sinkies) by the white idiots.

    1) long term (aka never-ending timeframe / horizon extending to a possible 9999999 years)
    2) cannot tell you much (to prevent some ‘alien beings’ from speculating the white idiotic talented re-balancing act in their portfolio whatever that is).

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  • Just1more:

    GIC must reveal at least how much it had invested and how much the worth yearly. Telling people that it will take years to compute is a stupid answer. Don’t the CEO of GIC needs to know what is he managing for? Surely he knows the GIC’s worth. Does he/she?

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  • LIONS:

    sometime back,when he was questioned,CROC-TEARS LBH,CHAIR OF TH,said that he ‘had’ BUISNESS/FINANCE EXPERTISE gained from his days at NOL,NOL?

    (NO WONDER NOL HAS TO SINK)?

    NOW,SEE WHAT HAPPENS?
    is it becos he cannot control the reckless HO JINX N HER ‘TALENTS’???

    weeks back,on TRE,when they started raising water prices etc,i said they probably lost BIG MONEY at TH/GIC.

    NO WORRIES for the lacking PAPies.
    when they lo$e BIG,they COLLECT EVEN BIGGER FROM poor sgs,many who are MADE jobless by their FT POLICY????

    WONDER WTF young educated sgs keep voting for LEE AH LONG (AND HO JINX)?….

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  • We must not Criticise:

    Philip Ang

    We must not talk about the LOSSES.
    Ignorance is Bliss.

    We may not be happy if we know the truth.
    Perception is more important than Reality.
    Whatever we perceive becomes our fact.
    The truth notwithstanding.

    Why worry about losses if we Trust?

    Losses will be paid by the younger generation.

    Let our elderly generation get all the PGP and let them be happy.
    Their support is key to our gabramen.

    Their children will pay for them.

    We must not demand for Check and Balance.

    It’s a taboo.

    Pls discipline yourself and don’t question.

    Just Obey.

    Just say BOH BIAN and you will accept everything.

    We must never demand transparency.
    It’s morally ethically wrong.
    It’s sinful.

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  • Head must roll.:

    This may sound stupid, but how is GIC Private Limited going to pay back the money borrowed from CPF reserves? Does the private entities there enjoy benefits from gains? If government linked, who is going to get fried from it, who is answerable, how to prevent bankrupting the country. The president very silent in this leh?
    If for the Japanese, the heads already apologised and hara-kiri in pride. Somebody must answer for it.
    I hope the WP can raise these in the Parliament, don’t care if we receive proper answer.

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  • Younger generation Pays:

    No need worry about losses.
    The younger generation will pay for it.
    Just have more tariff hikes.

    Billions will flow in.

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  • rukidding:

    ….Lunch was “stolen”..because of Ah Long’s “Great ideal” !

    ….now,..even your “Preserved lunch” was “carelessly taken care of” and has now “rot” and caused “great losses” ?

    All these “shits standards and performances”…and you have to “forced yourself” to pay him “millions” to do it ?

    I wonder what will happened if we were one day “ransomed” into paying him and his “gang” ..TRILLIONs ?

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  • gone with the wind:

    no wonder the recent slew of costs increases right left & center.
    we all could tell something was amiss n that the gov must be having money problems etc..
    many guessed right, that gic may have lost big again. and now its proven to be correct.
    so what now?
    no accountability , no apologies, no nothing.
    they’ll just continue fleecing us,the poor daft peasants relentlessly , for as long as they can.

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  • RDB:

    @rukidding: May 19, 2017 at 10:39 am (Quote)

    @haha9.52 am,……

    ya lor,….net, net we are still in the black ?

    Ghee,….this kind of answer ?

    Notice how the “meekness & dead silence” ???

    ==============

    And so the meaning is that PAP has always been POLUMPA AUCTIONING PARTY of their fellow citizens’ hard earned working class money for losing BIG TIME!

    And yet for PG $300 x 3 payouts some 70% DAFT Lau Kon You they still gave votes to his daft son because of his papa. As they don’t know what he answered a foreign journalist of the general perception is that LHL is PM because he is his son? he declared his daft son as “He is very much a man of his own”. Fully agree! For losing our hard earn CPF and also to become a deliberately NOT invited head-of-state to their Beijing for their One Belt One Road forum!

    And so Sinkies are actual about 70% daft followers to the tune of some 70%+3 Pee And Poo PMs!

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  • caliew:

    Is ok to learn from history and move on, but someone should be held accountable and be held responsible for the lost that it was incur, and whole GIC should be made to pay and compensate for the lost that they help incur, such as no bonuses to be paid to management of GIC and all high management is to take 50% pay cut, till the money is recovered, if sooner they help recover the lost investment the earlier the bonuses payment can be made to the management of GIC.

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    BOTTOM-LINE is that the world of HIGH-FINANCE can be an extremely dangerous place to be in if one is not conversant nor well-equipped with financial knowledge & tools, asset valuation skills & risk assessment capability.
    The late 1990s to 2008 were a Financial Industry era where Financial Engineering made so much more money than the Physical Industry itself eg. Manufacturing & Services. But unlike Physical Industry which is a self-sustaining Industry, the Financial Industry especially Financial Engineering is unsustainable. It is a Bubble economy which inflates & then suddenly deflates leaving those final holders holding the baby! – Pumped-&-Dumped!
    It is a Multi-disciplinary skill requiring deep accounting knowledge [yet not think like an accountant], corporate law understanding [finding legal loopholes & legal strategies], understanding of GAAP [restating revenue, write-offs, etc.] & especially, Statistical knowledge which helps one quantify risk [probability, statistical risk assessment, technical charting

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  • Oldcock:

    As a lawyer iś trained to whack an opponent, he knows nothing of economics.

    This is exactly the reason why he cannot get along with Goh KHeng swee, the economist from London school of economics!

    Hope Goh Kheng swee can urinate at him from his higher elevation!

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  • Gilliam Lee Kah Yew:

    Singaporeans do not feel anything. It shows they are smart.

    Wow, even if we exclude all the many other billions lost, just this UBS loss of $5.56billion SGD is mind perplexingly astronomical for me to comprehend what is the order of magnitude of this ton of gold burnt into ashes.

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  • Big Big Washing Machine:

    Could all these be the international high Profile Big Big Washing Machine?

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  • New Egg Yoke:

    Even if the once great Titanic could be saved, it is still a SUNK ship and has NO residual value-junkyard MAYBE! Move forward 30%. Take care of yourselves as best as you can. Minimise debts, SAVE. This nation of traitors, FTrash and Papsmear butt lickers is a done deal. Dun bother. Everything is NOISE. KARMA is just finishing his dinner. He will be coming for these white demons soon. The fire in T2 is just a warm up. Wait for it.

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  • lan:

    U think;why;
    cPeeF not pigPLE money very fun
    Dafts

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  • Fake Nepalese:

    Big Big Washing Machine:
    Could all these be the international high Profile Big Big Washing Machine?

    HP said Everything is Possiber.

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  • Gone:

    What is gone, is gone.No way they can be recovered. Just like a sinking vessel, even recovered or salvaged from wreck, it will still be a scrapped vessel.

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  • oxygen:

    DON’T KNOW WHERE HE GOT THIS FINANCE/INVESTMENT “GENIUS” calculus but it certainly defies the SANITY OF MY INVESTMENT LOGIC.

    Unless you are a bond holder putting risks capital for a defined time horizon, I have NEVER KNOW anyone investing in equities defines a time horizon of X years of returns expectations as if it is mandated in divine heaven that the investor will do nothing in between regardless of fortune strike and come hellish burnt of nearly all his invested capital in bad risks undertaking.

    The FOACKING DEFINITION of equity investing – UBS is an example – it does NOT have a DEADLINE nor MATURITY of realization at the time of investing. Why? You don’t buy a business (do nothing to it as a passive investor) with the view to sell it to your stupid gambling neighbor but rather to look at it from how to create, expand and improve that business to grow a richer pie for future generation inheritance.Look around those corporate acquisition, it is BUY FOR KEEP, not buy to sell to the next sucker in the queue. If the bought investment does not perform, you cut your losses and not wait for that imagined deadline to regret that you didn’t do anything about a stupid big bet entered into 30 years ago.

    Lee Kuan Yew:We are buying something that we intend to keep for the next two to three decades and grow with them

    If you do that of 2-3 decade wait, you are really placing a big bet on a LOTTERY GAMBLE and counting your gains or losses at the end of the expiry or maturity period.

    Investment needs to have a define target return. And if you can afford to lock in your capital & wait for that many years, it has to be a multi-bagger ( i.e. looking at a few hundred percent gains) win. If it is a losing bet after a few years, particularly a losing bet just after a few months and never got higher in values than you paid for in the first instance, YOU BOUGHT A DUD and it needs to be reviewed and scrutinized under very stringent criteria to hold or sent it into the museum of bad investment history.

    Investment has no sentiment nor target date of realization because economy and technology change the global competitive dynamics – some of the structural changes are irreversible.

    Who is buying retail malls now with a 30 years view of investment horizon? You are more likely to be bankrupted of this LOTTERY bet before 3 years is up.

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  • No confidence:

    Just compare the returns of both CPF and EPF and you have an idea which one is better managed. The folks managing our retirement money are clueless. Making risky investments and not being transparent enough. What else are they hiding? Unfortunately majority of the electorates are like sheep so they’d take everything the government says at face value. Our education system needs a complete overhaul.

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  • Bapak:

    You got everything right except the last sentence. We got to kick PAP out & overhaul the whole Singapore.

    No confidence:
    Just compare the returns of both CPF and EPF and you have an idea which one is better managed. The folks managing our retirement money are clueless. Making risky investments and not being transparent enough. What else are they hiding? Unfortunately majority of the electorates are like sheep so they’d take everything the government says at face value. Our education system needs a complete overhaul.

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  • WP asleep won't raise issue:

    Head must roll.:
    This may sound stupid, but how is GIC Private Limited going to pay back the money borrowed from CPF reserves? Does the private entities there enjoy benefits from gains? If government linked, who is going to get fried from it, who is answerable, how to prevent bankrupting the country. The president very silent in this leh?
    If for the Japanese, the heads already apologised and hara-kiri in pride. Somebody must answer for it.
    I hope the WP can raise these in the Parliament, don’t care if we receive proper answer.

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  • oxygen:

    POLITICALLY CORRECT PRAVDA SINKIELAND, as usual, busy and intensive in flatulence unleashing. The fake arrogant dishonesty has the bait read of UBS with SHITTY banking shares still “MAKE” money. It is manure fertilizer feeding on the daft 70% too stupid to discover they are stupid of gullibility and naivety. Have they sold all SHITTY bank yet and all the remaining UBS money diarrhea-causing shares yet to declare collective winning or losing now of ownself-praise-ownself politics of telling peasants 1% truth, 99% lies, fantasy and propaganda?

    When White Monkey-fed media tells peasants a seemingly miniscule true (if at all of contrary elephant doubt prevailing) SPICED UP WITH THE IRRELEVANCE of conflating with SHITTY banking exaggeration – IT IS OBVIOUS TO THE OTHER 30% THAT PRAVDA SINKIELAND IS CONCEALING BIG PILE OF SH*T from the public eye and mind.

    Come next downturn inevitable, SHITTING BANKING values could vaporize again but of course and als, THOSE PEASANTS TOO STUPID TO DISCOVER THEY ARE STUPID all forgotten Pravda Sinkieland lied to them earlier that together with UBS, the forever evergreen investment apprenticeship ‘STILL MADE A LOT OF MONEY’. It is call bait-and-switch in polite terms and in political jargon of truth telling, it is as obnoxious as farting at the dinner table whilst everyone is eating.

    IF ALL ELSE FAILS, PAPpy will sing to a different tune of investing in the ‘”LONG-TERM” with a maturity date of decades to come – an euphemistic code word for the reality of “I foacked this one thoroughly up, don’t ask question!” Here is one that is LIKELY NOT TO BE LONG-TERM even if the intention is otherwise.

    https://www.facebook.com/PeopleForTrueRuleOfLaw/posts/819011848132218

    GIC is substantial shareholder of this Australian uranium miner- Paladin Energy Limited (PDN) since 2013. If it is a 3 decade time horizon of investing for the fantasy dreaming of “long-term”, they would NOT be reviewing their investment opportunities, risks and options until 2043. That is LONG AFTER ALL THOSE INVESTMENT APPRENTICES GONE TO TERN SUA AND NEVER COME BACK TO RESPOND TO ACCOUNTABILITY.

    What is the truth?

    Paladin Energy was trading above 80c before GIC became substantial shareholder as high as $5. That means the hug parcel of Paladin shares must be bought above 80c.

    And what is PDN trading yesterday? it is only 7.2 cents per share. Shortly after GIC became substantial shareholder (PAPpy denied in the HOUSE OF MOST EXPENSIVE DECORATIONS) it holds any investment asset in its balance sheet), IT LOST HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of $. Now its survival hang in balance of restructuring.

    Apprenticeships failed under guise of long-term investing. Or is it not?

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  • So Simper!:

    WP asleep won't raise issue:

    No need WP, every issue has been raised by BLOGGER ANONYMOUS.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Rabble-rouser

    ANOTHER BRILLIANT POST COMMENT from someone MOST OBVIOUSLY enriched of LONG DEEP END INTENSIVE INFORMED EXPERIENCES.

    Your detractors could only thumb you down. Put them to a little test of intelligence, they will fail spectacularly – IF THEY DARE TO ATTEMPT at it for showbiz if nothing else.

    Rabble-rouser: BOTTOM-LINE is that the world of HIGH-FINANCE can be an extremely dangerous place to be in if one is not conversant nor well-equipped with financial knowledge & tools, asset valuation skills & risk assessment capability.
    The late 1990s to 2008 were a Financial Industry era where Financial Engineering made so much more money than the Physical Industry itself eg. Manufacturing & Services. But unlike Physical Industry which is a self-sustaining Industry, the Financial Industry especially Financial Engineering is unsustainable. It is a Bubble economy which inflates & then suddenly deflates leaving those final holders holding the baby! – Pumped-&-Dumped!
    It is a Multi-disciplinary skill requiring deep accounting knowledge [yet not think like an accountant], corporate law understanding [finding legal loopholes & legal strategies], understanding of GAAP [restating revenue, write-offs, etc.] & especially, Statistical knowledge which helps one quantify risk [probability, statistical risk assessment, technical charting

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  • All In The Familee:

    Lee Con You. No sweat, dafts paying for it, just like the past. It’s an honest mistake, let’s move on.

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  • Sperm Whale is not dirty word:

    Singaporean Accounting educated people should not practise accounting because they do not demonstrate ethics expected of an accounting professional when they condone Opacity and Lack of accountability.

    These are ACCOMPLICE OF THE PROBLEM.

    I would never pay them to do accounting.
    I rather get one from third world countries, cheaper and more value.

    Did sir Leong TSE trained his students well?
    No moral education and ethics meh?

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  • Clever accounting:

    Let’s do some clever accounting.
    Let’s make the performance measured over 100 years. That is, 2 x SG50.
    So everyone will be dead by the time we know how much they lost.

    I am better than Leong Tze Hian.
    I am Pinkie Bala Vivian.

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  • oxygen:

    EVEN A FIRST YEAR NO-PAY INTERN of a would-be Investment Analyst would know that a corporate bond issue with a guaranteed interest payment is a DEADLY TRAP OF DECEPTION.

    The reason is staring in the face of stupidity incomprehensible – guaranteed interest payment is NOT DEPENDENT ON the promised full faith and credibility cut finger blood proof of willingness to honor commitment BUT REST SOLELY ON THE ISSUER’s ability/financial solvency to pay.

    It is manure sold as hunger relieving food.

    And if it include an option to convert to equities available to the bond holders, it IS A BRILLIANT HANDCUFF by the issuer. If the issuer is unable to pay, it simply default into bankruptcy to leave the stupid-to-impossibility bond holder to scavenge the crumbs. The alternative is a falling share price in distress of financial strangulation, the bondholder is thus FORCED TO CONVERT supply more equity cash to the bond issuer TO PAY THAT PROMISED GUARANTEED INTEREST at a much higher price agreed earlier than prevailing. In other words, the foacking dumb bondholder is giving out cash to pay his own interest and dividend.

    There is nothing worst investment than a bond issue with attached assurance of OPTICAL ILLUSION of security of return – OTHER THAN CO-CO bonds. Co-co bonds pay very high interest rate, the bond issues might be dangling on the edge of bankruptcy, its share price collapse, THE BOND ISSUER THAN EXERCISE ITS OPTION TO REDEEMED is bond at fire-sale price. In such instance, the bondholder guarantees its own interest payment also guarantees the cheap sale back to the bond issuer of his DUMB TO IMPOSSIBILITY bought investment.

    Dumb convertible bondholders of non-performing issuers will always under pressure to average out by converting his bond into equity. IT IS ANOTHER DUMB MOVE TO PILE ON AND ADD ON of PILING MORE RISKS ONTO STUPID RISKS.

    No investment ever prospers by compounding stupidity of BIGGER GAMBLE of stupid gambling – I have yet to discover one yet. The charts tells the investor what the stock is whilst fundamentals analysis (of self-delusion) tells what the market SHOULD BE – the difference is the investor’s mistake of stupidity and financial loss.

    Looking at UBS chart, it is like a cascading waterfall – obvious long ago. BUT WHAT IS EVEN MORE TELLING IS THAT GLOBAL BANKING IS SHRINKING post GFC. Find out how many EU banks are still operating franchises or branches OUTSIDE EU since the GFC? I count only HSBC and Deutsche Bank.

    THE BEWILDERING QUESTION FOACKING MY MIND IS – how come GIC took nearly 10 years to know the banking world has changed when global banks every year have been downsizing and retrenching by thousands every year?

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  • Time for a Pay Cut!:

    From President downwards!

    Taxing the people should not be the only solution!

    True blue Singaporeans are angry, very angry indeed!

    PE 2017 will be a watershed with or without Dr TCB!

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  • oxygen:

    @ WP asleep won’t raise issue

    YOU ARE DEAD WRONG – LTK asked about GIC performance before but they sidelined him saying that GIC does NOT hold any assets in its balance sheet.

    WP asleep won't raise issue:

    I found this WINDY HAPPY CONTRADICTION of fact in this statutory declaration of GIC made to the Australian Stock Exchange. Here is my proof despite official denial.

    https://www.facebook.com/PeopleForTrueRuleOfLaw/posts/819011848132218

    GIC was and still is substantial shareholders of Paladin Energy. WP does not have enough numbers in the HOUSE OF MOST EXPENSIVE DECORATIONS to challenge and hold the PAPpys to account. It is NOT WP remaining silent and won’t raise questions. The fault is people like yourself who don”t vote enough WP or Oppies into the political zoo or circus you might like to call.

    WHAT IS NOT KNOW IN SINKIELAND is why so many FLOWER VASES AND PIGGIES coming from HIGH FINANCE BACKGROUND FROM THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS IVY LEAGUE zoos all DIAM DIAM DIAM over the years when they can see from the share price charts that it is a dead shit loss-making investment ever since it was bought.

    The POLITICALLY-CORRECT PIGGIES only know how to SQUEALS to thunderous repeated chorus of AHPETC accounting imagined transgression BUT BLIND TO THESE FACTS HAPPENING AROUND THEM.

    oxygen: Looking at UBS chart, it is like a cascading waterfall – obvious long ago. BUT WHAT IS EVEN MORE TELLING IS THAT GLOBAL BANKING IS SHRINKING post GFC. Find out how many EU banks are still operating franchises or branches OUTSIDE EU since the GFC? I count only HSBC and Deutsche Bank.
    THE BEWILDERING QUESTION FOACKING MY MIND IS – how come GIC took nearly 10 years to know the banking world has changed when global banks every year have been downsizing and retrenching by thousands every year?

    Are they blind or totally ignorant of what is happening in the economic and banking front?

    Or they have absent mindedly left their brains in the toilet every time they go in there to poo and do any other private businesses we don’t want to know?

    Or they read the little-improved 151-ranked (from 154-ranked previously) PRAVDA SINKIELAND and didn’t even understand those headline reads of global banking shrinkages and franchise closures around the world?

    All these going on whilst the 70% daft Sinkies trapped in the caterpillar-stupid trusting of authoritarian concealment of all truths and peasants too stupid to even discover they are stupid?

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  • oxygen:

    @ Sperm Whales is not dirty word

    MATE, PLEASE DON’T HEAP MANURE on all Sinkieland AR-CUNT-TERNS or similar categorization of other nationality earning their rice-bowl.

    It is GROSSLY UNFAIR of displaced blame and unjustified bashing. I explain why.

    Sperm Whale is not dirty word: Singaporean Accounting educated people should not practise accounting because they do not demonstrate ethics expected of an accounting professional when they condone Opacity and Lack of accountability.
    These are ACCOMPLICE OF THE PROBLEM.
    I would never pay them to do accounting.
    I rather get one from third world countries, cheaper and more value.
    Did sir Leong TSE trained his students well?
    No moral education and ethics meh?

    The AR-CUNT-TERNS in Sinkieland or elsewhere of your vitriolic attack here are a CUNTSERVATIVE mob – that is why they are (not all) lousy investors I found.

    @ Rabble-rouser is completely right when he wrote these wisdom words.

    Rabble-rouser: It is a Multi-disciplinary skill requiring deep accounting knowledge [yet not think like an accountant],

    I can easily illuminate from first hand experience what this SMARTIE blogger said is right of this profession endeavoring of investing BUT MUST NOT BE thinking like one in actual investing. But leave that for now.

    AR-CUNT-TERNS – if you read PRAVDA SINKIELAND – recently FOACK “AH PEK” asserting that its town council could still squeeze another $500K out of operating expenses by more stringent contracting and billing practices. It is ALL UNSUBSTANTIATED and HALLUCINATORY of imagination of speculative conjectures. Of course, besides old ladies, the easiest target of punching bags must be “AH PEKS” when it is no business of AR-CUNT-TERNS to speculate what the real market conditions prevailing is like when it comes to the costs of hiring contracting services help.

    HOW COME THE SAME EAGER POLITICALLY CORRECT AR-CUNT-TERNS don’t comment on the lousy decisions to invest and lost BILLIONS OF DOLLARS on UBS? The former imagined loss is only $0.5 of just $1 million, the latter of UBS speculative GAMBLING LOSS ACTUALIZED is MULTI-BILLIONS only.

    Surely the cow-dunked infested desiccated coconuts sitting on the shoulders of AR-CUNT-TERNS anywhere in the world generally can’t be both CUNT-SERVATIVE and RIDICULOUSLY HYPOCRITICAL OF RECKLESS ACCEPTANCE at the same time?

    I know that all OZ AR-CUNT-TERNS in Sydney always dressed up in DEEP DARK BLUE suit, red ties – VERY CUNT-SERVATIVE dress code.

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    oxygen: @ Rabble-rouser
    ANOTHER BRILLIANT POST COMMENT from someone MOST OBVIOUSLY enriched of LONG DEEP END INTENSIVE INFORMED EXPERIENCES.
    Your detractors could only thumb you down. Put them to a little test of intelligence, they will fail spectacularly – IF THEY DARE TO ATTEMPT at it for showbiz if nothing else.

    @ Oxygen:
    Actually my full post got truncated halfway & the rest of my comments were lost when my notebook simply refreshed out of the blue & flushed everything I wrote. Didn’t want to replicate the lost part again because it wouldn’t have matter anyway re: the thumbs down! If nothing else, I simply hate the recent Microsoft Windows releases which were damn unstable & does stupid things to you. And this post proved what I had always known – many TRE readers lack sophistication & financial understanding!
    Anyway, just between you & me! After Post-2008 GFC, the Financial Industry Era had progressed to become a Liquidity-Flushed[re:Asset Bubbles]-&-Risk-Heighten[re:High Risk building up] era; in part from complicit by the World Central Banks [Quantitative Easing] to ‘extend-&-pretend’ global banks’ health when their balance sheets were already wrecked by the GFC & further subsequently sideswiped by EU sovereign govt defaults (PIIGS). Between 2009 to today, the world’s banks are the equivalent of a nuclear time-bomb awaiting to explode! Many banks especially those in the West had become ‘WHALES’ – high rollers in casinos. Many were up to their eyeballs speculating in unquoted high leveraged derivatives & cross-risk underwriting instruments – this was a repeat of the 2008 GFC but at a much bigger scale![because this time, the Central Banks are funding them]!
    Even S’pore banks are not invulnerable – their major assets ie. loanbooks in the O&M industry (already under stress); construction & property (akan datang Brick ‘N Mortar collapse!) & unsecured corporate & household sector (very, very weak vulnerable)!
    Even Banks themselves are exposed to disruptive forces. What many don’t know is that Tech companies with their Google Pay, Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, AliPay, & Paypal are doing to the banks for transactions banking. Peer-to-Peer shadow banking websites are doing intermediary borrowing/lending at a far lower cost than banks. Crowdfunding-&-GOFUNDME type of venture capital are replacing IPOs & mainstrem VC.

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    oxygen: I can easily illuminate from first hand experience what this SMARTIE blogger said is right of this profession endeavoring of investing BUT MUST NOT BE thinking like one in actual investing. But leave that for now.

    Not to denigrate Accountants but simply state the “obvious-but-apparently-not-obvious-for-the-public” fact.
    Accountants are simply number crunchers! They are in the business to obfuscate the financial accounts simply by doing what is allowable by law or by GAAP. They have become the accomplices of the Mainstream Channel controlled by the Elites – Ratings agencies, the Mainstream News Media, Investment Banks’ Stockmarket Research Units, Academic & Professional ‘Talking Heads’, etc.
    And I have yet to see Accountants breached the wide chasm for what it takes to be a successful Investor. Many end up losing in their investments because their accountant training is an obstacle to true financial understanding. In part, because they believe in the very bullshit they put out to the public.
    In true finance, the art for any Financial Bloke is to decipher the REAL CASH FLOW from the business or from any Income-producing asset. BOTTOM-LINE is CASH FLOW! The second aspect is CAPITAL GROWTH! And that is critical FUNDAMENTAL ANALYSES! This requires strong ECONOMIC UNDERSTANDING & MULTI-DISCIPLINARY CAPABILITIES TO WORK! Capital Growth requires “MOATS” or Structural Competitive Barriers in order to achieve Supernormal Profits. Again, many lack this important criteria – choosing to follow the herd or listen to Professionals who are there to earn their commission.
    And that is all I have to say! – Thumbs down if you must!

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    oxygen: THE BEWILDERING QUESTION FOACKING MY MIND IS – how come GIC took nearly 10 years to know the banking world has changed when global banks every year have been downsizing and retrenching by thousands every year?

    It took PAP 10 long years to figure out that a tin of Baby Milk Formula was overpriced & being profiteered through the retail channels in S’pore. It costs as much as 3x the price of Baby Milk Formula in Australia or New Zealand. They had 10 long years of collecting millions in pay yet oblivious to the eroding situation that things are escalating toward the bad ie. high cost of living in S’pore – 4th year as the most expensive global city!
    Another clueless factor arising from the PAP is FINTECH – the Next Big Thing! S’pore (PAP) are working with the status quo eg. banks to come up with Fintech money-making schemes. But what they don’t know is that FINTECH is the seed of destruction for the Mainstream Banks. Mainstream Banks are high cost-centers whose sole purpose is to retain their high profit margins at the expense of their customers. What FINTECH would be is to use low-cost technology platforms to deliver low-cost solutions to both end-user ie borrowers & lenders at a spread which Mainstream Banks cannot compete!
    And that is the Napalm bomb that will roast the banking world to a crisp as we know going forward. Like Brick ‘N Mortar retailing, things will only get worse & never will get better despite what people hope to think!

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    oxygen: WP does not have enough numbers in the HOUSE OF MOST EXPENSIVE DECORATIONS to challenge and hold the PAPpys to account. It is NOT WP remaining silent and won’t raise questions. The fault is people like yourself who don”t vote enough WP or Oppies into the political zoo or circus you might like to call.

    The problem isn’t with the Workers Party. In truth, the Workers Party aren’t comprised of highly intelligent individuals who can really challenge the PAP & put them to the sword! At best they are hard-working & diligent people hoping for change by challenging the PAP status quo but can’t.
    Truth is that the PAP had alienated a whole bunch of true-blue but disenfranchised S’poreans who voted with their feet for greener pastures. This has always been a cornerstone for PAP’s political dominance – displace the politically inclined dissidents who could leave & replaced them with compliant & obedient foreigner-citizen converts. The PAP did it stealthily with the M’sians in the mid-1970s till mid-1990s. But the high cost of living in S’pore & the improved economic circumstances of M’sia reversed the flow of wannabe S’poreans from M’sia. Since then (2004), the PAP discarded their stealth mode & did it more openly, virtually importing Ah Tiongs & the Patels by the containerloads.
    No one in their right minds would want to participate in PAP’s political economy because one wrong move could make one drive taxis or become a security guard for eternity. Or like Roy Ngerng, clean toilets for a living! The late LKY was smart but he was too clever for his own good. The political handcuffs he put on S’pore has now rebounded onto the Economic front. S’pore is drifting into the abyss – no one can understand nor comprehend the damage done to S’pore by the political handcuffs & the mass indoctrination wrought by the useless educational system & Meritocracy Policy.
    And that is all I have to write – Thumbs down if you wish!

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  • oxygen:

    @ Rabble-rouser,

    AGREES WITH MOST OF YOUR THESIS except this one.

    Rabble-rouser: In truth, the Workers Party aren’t comprised of highly intelligent individuals who can really challenge the PAP & put them to the sword!

    My thoughts are that the incumbents apprenticeships in the last 2 GE, particularly the last one, cannot be matched to the quality of WP’s newbies. Look at the rejects in the incumbency that sneaked through their preferred backside or backdoor entry if you like but once in, you smell the arrogance of their hypocritical air of superiority. They talked rubbish from the high pedestal of political elevation. If you put them on town-hall like “national conversation” debating with peasants, I am sure a lot of them would melt like ice-cream in a tub of boiling water.

    It take courage and patriotism to enter politics via the WP route – the real test of baptism of fire – something that the incumbents sheltered their dumbass recruits of battlefield exposures. In a crunch of national crisis, I expect the talk-cawked-sing-song PAPpys to disintegrate very fast. The economy MAXED OUT, RESTRUCTURING FAILED, the CFE clueless of the direction forward – NO ONE IN THE INCUMBENCY in the HOUSE OF MOST EXPENSIVE DECORATIONS could offer a suggestion or way out of this quagmire and quicksand. That this the proven failure in incumbent politics and PAPpynomics. Sinkieland’s key weakness, vulnerability and risks collapse now is economics – any great minds in the inductees in the 2011 & 2015 GE among incumbent politics to share a hint of wisdom and possible escape route ahead?

    NONE!!

    The last GE was a sorry mess for Oppies. The last minute implosion within NSP scares voters out of their wit – most stupidly too scared to vote Oppies seeing how NSP could NOT even govern themselves on the eve of election. Those tainted with NSP WHO ACTUALLY CONTESTED in the last election – in my view – are UNELECTABLE. Ever!

    Realistically, Oppies is now reduced to SDP & WP. Unless voters recognize the harsh truth that everything grew big all have humble -even torturous – beginning, Singapore will die off within 2 decades.

    What we have now is dysfunctional failures governing us – incapable of change. I see escalating signs of disintegration in economy and social anomie of escalating anti-social behavior in public space. It is falling apart yet a section of the 70% too fearful to accept CHANGE IS INEVITABLE if we are to survive as a nation.

    The boiling frog is waiting to be cooked and served for someone’s dinner. It will come sooner than most expects. The smart one leaving.

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  • ahlong meets mingyang:

    thanks gic for showing the world that old fart harry talks cock!

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  • oxygen:

    @ Phillip Ang

    HERE IS SOME MIND-BOGGLING STUFF of how PAPpy is in sheepish denial for so long of its investment debacle in UBS. I have compelling apprehension that there is a lot more to come.

    Here is some headline reads (if you google ÜBS + Downsizing)

    Swiss bank UBS plans massive layoffs of 10,000

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2012/10/30/swiss-bank-layoffs/1667979/

    Now that was in October 2012 – nearly 5 YEARS AGO!!!

    And it came after UBS warned in September – same year

    UBS restructuring to take THREE YEARS!!

    https://www.ft.com/content/0742914c-211f-11e2-babb-00144feabdc0

    WITH LARGE JOB LOSES IN LONDON, STAMFORD ( its US hub) and even ZURICH (its home base)

    and as late at 2016, the RETRENCHMENT CONTINUES unabated geographically. UBS is shrinking from the Asian presence.

    http://news.efinancialcareers.com/sg-en/245478/ubs-is-firing-senior-bankers-in-asia-it-may-live-to-regret-this/

    THE BLEEDING AND THE FIRING CONTINUES….unabated

    HOW COME THE PAPpys finance whiz kids in the HOUSE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE DECORATIONS AND DECISION-MAKERS inside GIC STILL SEEMINGLY UNAWARE that UBS is a write-off of its banking future – globally.

    PAST TENSE in 2012 was still sitting on the Board of Directors in UBS then?

    And only now GIC came up to “cough blood” admitting that its huge hasty gambling on UBS (and most likely all its investments in bank stocks globally) is a MONUMENTAL DEBACLE of failure?

    China is a risky bet on the brink of its own financial firestorm imploding. Both the state and corporate sectors are way overleveraged – a RECKLESS GLUTTON OF DEBT and money laundering to move whatever cash they can get out of China.

    When the firestorm ravages through the Chinese banking sector, our sovereign wealth funds massive investments in Chinese banks will vaporize on a scale a few times that of this UBS debacle.

    PAPpys in this UBS debacle KEPT PEASANTS IN THE DARK. No surprise if there is repeat performance of disingenuous oblivion and denial when calamity again hits home just as our economy sinks faster into sudden death collapse.

    PAPpy supporters who bought property and doubled up of betting BIG are in for a roasting fiery end of their greed and incomprehensible stupidity.

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  • No Belt No Pants:

    ahlong meets mingyang:
    thanks gic for showing the world that old fart harry talks cock!

    Not if I can help it !
    Just measure performance over 100 years long term horizon.
    By then most would have died including young children of today.

    Don’t measure it over 20 years.

    And by 100 years time, extend the period by another 5 GE of 50 years.
    This way sg 150 is assured. Hire scholars to come up some reason can already.

    Who dares to oppose anyways?

    SMLJ also Boh Bian what.

    I, LJ TUAKEE,
    BOH BIAN POREAN

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  • Lan Tut Kang. LTK:

    As I repeatedly repeated for over a decade.
    Singaporeans must suffer much more extremely before they find the courage to vote for change.

    Finally, light at the end of the Kra Canal and Malacca port.

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  • WP clueless:

    @Rabble

    Contrary to what someone else wrote, for once I agree with you.

    WP lacks highly intelligent people who can challenge PAP.

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  • oxygen:

    @ WP clueless,

    NOT ONE PAPpy in the HOUSE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE DECORATIONS of walking artefacts farted a word on this ignominious debacle – inside or outside there. Even Botak in that political zoo denied GIC has any investment on its book-soon after GIC made a mandatory statutory declaration that it hold substantial shareholding in Australian uranium miner, Paladin Energy when queried by WP.

    https://www.facebook.com/PeopleForTrueRuleOfLaw/posts/819011848132218

    So you are barking nonsense here.

    WP clueless: @Rabble
    Contrary to what someone else wrote, for once I agree with you.
    WP lacks highly intelligent people who can challenge PAP.

    CYBERSPACE is smart enough to rip PAPpy apart. The PAPpy piggies over-hyped, overpaid and overfed are only good at squealing at AH PEK and their ladies can only CHU PATTERN or DON’T KNOW WHAT TO SAY. To avoid doubts, just ask “WHAT DO YOU THINK”.

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