The no value HDB flat

People in SG are paying their entire life for a lease with a time limit.

By selling houses these people are actually selling a trickling lease to the next buyer.

Holding a house with not the intention to live and settle down but the intention to use it to speculate is like holding a time bomb in the hand waiting for it to blow.

Whoever hold the lease also have to contribute painful blood money in the form of cpf and cash to finance this debt.

These people screw themselves and end up destroying their own children lives but still cannot see through the cruel reality and  foolishly think the housing policy in sg are good.

Insane….

 

Alan

 

 

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47 Responses to “The no value HDB flat”

  • NotMyProblem:

    Don’t say HDB has no value. It has benefited a lot of PRs and foreigners-turn-SG.

    These people bought their flats, stayed for few years, sold the flats to local and left.

    I have witnessed one ex-foreigner, returned his SG passport, withdrew his CPF and sold his flats, in total he took back $1.4 Million. Now he is a rich ex-Singaporean living happily back in his own country.

    Only stupid SGs are left holding the time bomb.

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  • LIONS:

    Its is the govt’s sacred duty to ensure sgs staying in older flats dont become HOMELESS when the 99 years lea$e is up.

    However the govt does it is not as important aside from financially burdening the flat-owners.

    Extending the LEASE is a VALID OPTION to ensure social security.
    If thw govt fails to do this,it has to be FIRED!
    The PRESIDENT must follow up on this ISSUE.

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  • L Wong:

    Tell you a secret I cannot say in the House, otherwise my grandfather and father, aka bosses will kick me out of the House and I will have to join the jobless. My brother CS told me once you reach a certain age, it is very difficult to find another job. Moreover, if I have offended my father, who will dare to hire me. I already tried very hard to curry favour him, telling him confidential information about his squabbles with his siblings. Who knows the whole world knows what I did, luckily I was protected by the majority in the House who basically sit on the fence or side with my father, always.
    On the secret I am about to tell you, I just wayang’d the other day, I will ask my Yes-men to study and then I will pass it to CS who is going to succeed my father’s business. CS already told me our pens, aka pigeon holes for the sheep will not be enbloc or extended, they are just sheep, should not complain too much, we just make sure they are hungry to work for us rich and powerful until they drop dead, otherwise where are we going to have land for bungalows for ourselves, our children, our rich friends, and our foreign rich friends, horses, donkeys and sheep that we are going to import to grow our business.
    CS also said he would tai-chi, aka procrastinate and leave it to his son, the 5th generation to decide what to do with the pens. He said he conned our step grandmother about making that motherhood statements to the House, his father tai chi to him and he tai chi to his successor, simple as that, he just wants the million dollar pay and bonus and to make even more money than my father, and that greedy maternal uncle, Mah BT who was in charge of building pens and bungalows.
    Don’t tell anyone about it, I will deny everything like I told the House about leaking information to father.

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  • Hi Lawrence:

    You have helped me make hell lots of money. How about invest some more in my company? I guarantee you can make even more than the $2 million your father pays you. Do not flood the market with your pens and land so that we can sell our buildings to the rich and horses at record prices, then we buy land from your company, or even from you and your cronies, sorry, buddies I mean.
    If your father sacks you, and does not give you Chairmanship and Directorship in his subsidiary companies, come and work for me, I guarantee you will be richer than your uncle Mah, your great grandfather’s blue eyed boy.
    Can you influence your step sister JT to import more horses, donkeys and sheep for us. We need them to work for us at cheaper price, also to buy and rent our stable.
    Thanks a lot, more good years!

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  • oxygen:

    @ ALAN, I have said on countless ocassions, nearly 70% of the peasants in LEE-jiapore got this Dunning-Kruger disease – too stupid to even begin to discover they are stupid to impossibility.

    These NFI dumdfarked morons still didn’t know that speculating in property (other than for home occupation use) neither understands nor believe that the more pricey the speculation is, the BIGGER IS THEIR LIABILITY RISKS which gonna explode right under their a*ses.

    The public housing asset enhancement scam has imploded in LEE-jiapore. Retirees cannot find buyers for the old speculative WAY OVERPRICED gamble called HDB and they are finding out that their next money-sucking adventure called 30 yr-lease 2-rm (SEXILY-LABELLED as Flexi) cannot be funded since they got no more cash and their CPF tied in the old flat is burnt or the yet uncommitted portion of residual CPF balance cannot be further splashed without running into another deficit of the required minimum sum.

    PAPpy asset eenhancement scam have run its full course – they farked the retiree’s subsistence survival needs, locked up their residual CPF balance and find their 2-rm 30 yr lease flexi have no more UNDERTAKERS to take over this superlative gamble far more expensive (on per sq ft basis 99 yr lease) than even BTOs.

    PAPpys still wants to squeeze blood out of stone with resale levy on the old flat which is a deception of disguise of what really is CAPITAL GAIN TAX (illegal and connot be collected by IRAS) reserved for peasants.

    The WHOLE ECONOMY IS NOW HIJACKED BY THE COLLAPSE FROZEN FARKED PROPERTY MARKET.

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  • oxygen:

    Ooops typo error there, sorry

    oxygen: PAPpy asset eenhancement scam have run its full course – they farked the retiree’s subsistence survival needs, locked up their residual CPF balance and find their 2-rm 30 yr lease flexi have no more UNDERTAKERS to take over this superlative gamble far more expensive (on per sq ft basis 99 yr lease) than even BTOs.

    should have been read as

    oxygen: PAPpy asset eenhancement scam have run its full course – they farked the retiree’s subsistence survival needs, locked up their residual CPF balance and find their 2-rm 30 yr lease flexi have no more UNDERTAKERS to take over this superlative gamble far more expensive (on per sq ft basis 99 yr lease) than even BTOs.

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  • oxygen:

    should have been read as

    oxygen: PAPpy asset eenhancement scam have run its full course – they farked the retiree’s subsistence survival needs, locked up their residual CPF balance and find their 2-rm 30 yr lease flexi have no more UNDERTAKERS to take over this superlative gamble far more expensive (on per sq ft basis 99 yr lease) than even 5-rooms BTOs.

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  • PC Ong:

    Not true. HDB flats have a very liquid secondary market, very easy to sell. Yes, those flats with shorter remaining leases are worth less than those with longer remaining leases. As long as you have bought your flat more than 10 years ago, you will still make good profits.

    Our MND Lawrence Wong has already said this is a complex issue. If the lease gets topped up indefinitely, this will send the wrong signal to people. And there will not be enough land to recycle for our future generation.

    There are some potential solutions when lease expires:
    1) Our govt will let people stay for another 1-2 years for free, while they make plans for alternative housing. Our govt will never kick people on to the streets.
    2) Pay a token sum to top up the lease for a certain period. If you want longer lease then pay more

    Finally, even if people don’t get any money after the lease expires, it is money still well-spent because we have a very reasonable amount to stay in very high-quality public housing for 99 years. In addition, most Singaporeans have ample cash savings and don’t rely much on cashing out their HDB to fund retirement.

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  • Irene Vanessa Wan Si Hung:

    They like the expensive life here. Everything so convenient. Coffee shops and shopping centers near you. Covered walkways – throw your umbrellas out! MRt stations next door – for those living near.

    So yes, even foreigners are quick to sense the convenience.

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  • Python 5:

    Let these singaporeans burn their way to complete bankruptcy.
    esp those who bought Bishan flats for $1m.

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  • What to do now?:

    HDB SELLS US “TICKING TIME BOMBS” not homes.

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  • opposition dude:

    It seems like 40 is the new 60 now. Flats built in 1978 and before are at least 40 years today, how are the values holding?

    It will be interesting when those flats built in the 80s hit 40 years. Got a good show to watch liao!

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  • I am going to emigrate:

    GCT (you started it all) and LHL, convince me why I would want to be so stupid to want to use up all my life savings by working the longest hours in the world to buy the most expensive square foot of living space in the world, not on solid ground, but in the air only to have its value become zero maybe even before I leave this world? With medical advancement, I may live to well over 100 or 120 years. Will I end my life living in a tent?

    I am going to emigrate. Thankfully, my qualifications will help make it easier.

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  • Xsingaporean Emigrant:

    I foresaw this sad state of affairs in the early 1970s, when LKY started grabbing my father’s land after cunningly deviced a new law to authorize his government to grab private land at dirt cheap compensation rate, with the excuse that it is for development.

    How can such a government be good for the people when it does not respect the individual’s right ownership?

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  • LIONS:

    Its not so much about ibtegration partie$ or NDP JIBGLES; its about SOCIAL COMPACT thats stems ftom SOCIO-ECONOMIC WELL-BEING for ALL,not just the ELITE$!

    Without a SHELTER,A HOME,FAMILIES WILL BREAK DOWN in many cases.
    When families BREAK DOWM,SOCIETY BREAKS DOWN.
    Lets stop pretending ALL IS WELL?

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  • WPA = Whacking Pap Alliance:

    asset enhancement of HDB – 70% sheep bought it lock stock and barrel. as more and more of 70% sheep jobless let’s see whether 70% sheep remains sheep.

    inside 200m is not within 200m – either 70% sheep is blind or plain stupid. one pap law two pap interpretations bright as day yet 70% sheep remains sheep.

    pap selected INDIAN president – 70% sheep was told Singapore needed a president by race malay yet when pap selected INDIAN president 70% sheep not a bleat.

    pap says mrt fails because of signal fault. but doors all fault. 70% sheep says no problem lah. signal fault doors fault no problem lah.

    the list goes on and on and on.

    which one hits 70% sheep hardest. it is that zero value HDB at end of lease. pap says can monetize HDB. 70% sheep still believes.

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  • DOOMED:

    FOREIGNERS CAME WITH DIRTY MONEY

    AND

    DEPART WITH CLEAN NOTES……

    SINKINKUS ARE SO SO STUPID…..

    HOW TO LOOSE 1M, WHEN ITS DIRTY…..

    THINK LAH

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  • Malaysia boleh Singapore bodoh:

    HDB flats are so over-priced it depletes the CPF account of the buyer (actually the lessee, not the owner). After buying it depreciates 1 percent per year. After 40 years it is difficult to sell because mortgage not available to potential buyers. Why was HDB flats “sold” to Singaporeans as store of value, “affordable and subsidised”? Because Singaporeans are bodoh (while Malaysians are boleh).

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  • oxygen:

    WILL SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ALL this – is the HDB resale levy a CAPITAL GAIN tax on the OWNER selling his old flat or is it a CAPITAL GAIN tax on the property – sold or unsold.

    There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between the two. If it is a capital gain tax on the owner of the sold flat – IT IS ILLEGAL, there is no capital gain tax regime in LEE-jiapore.

    Even if you ignore the ILLEGALITY, you can’t explain this anomaly. If the last surviving owner dies inside with 55 years lease remaining and all his/her kids have migrated, the trustee in the will have to sell that deceased estate, can HDB then going to impose a resale levy on the dead corpse already cremated? I am assuming the trustee – without the direction of the will – REFUSED TO PAY.

    If the resale levy is taxed on the PROPERTY – regardless of whoever is the identity of the owner – then it does not matter that the deceased or the trustee not pay or refuse to pay the resale levy, the next buyer absorbs the burden of capital gain tax levy when he/she subsequently sells the flat.

    If it is UNCERTAIN OR UNDEFINED OF HDB regulations if the resale levy aka capital gain tax is certain of liability flowing to OWNER (therefore identity relevant) or PROPERTY (identity irrelevant), then it is a FICTION or pretension of no reality.

    In other words, the resale levy as a form of capital gain tax is THEFT OF PRIVATE PROPERTY by insidious means or is it not of whimsical fabrication?

    What do you all think?

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  • Some thoughts:

    HDB officers never volunteered that important detail to buyers that their flats will be zero value at 99yo…is that item in the lease? Shouldnt it be pointed out n explained at the hdb office during the 1st sales appointment at least? If not , then it should be! Not everyone can understand the legal language in the lease. Whats more the HDB keeps the lease upon completion of saleappointments. (Mine was resale) i dunno about new homes.
    Even when buying resale hdb, the housing agent or hdb sales staff so coveniently omit that very neccessary detail..
    Want to earn ok..but must must earn honestly, right?
    So has HDB & the gov guilty of fake news?

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  • oxygen:

    @ PC Ong

    MATE, YOUR FART HEAD MUST BE SMARTER THAN your dessicated coconut. If you didn’t buy your flat more than 10 years ago, it must be less than 9 yrs old, YOU WOULD HAVE BOUGHT IT NEAR THE TOP PEAK of public housing price index. Taking account into your financing costs of mortgage for the holding period AND THE CAPITAL GAIN TAX (SEXILY CALLED HDB RESALE LEVY), you are MORE THAN LIKELY TO HAVE LOST YOUR PANTS and something else too.

    If you bought a condo, obviously no capital gain tax of resale levy but you would have lost a lot more on your next stupid property speculation after PAPpys brought in its property cooling measures.

    SO EITHER YOU LIED HERE OR YOU ARE A COMPLETE IDIOT farting gases.

    PC Ong: Not true. HDB flats have a very liquid secondary market, very easy to sell. Yes, those flats with shorter remaining leases are worth less than those with longer remaining leases. As long as you have bought your flat more than 10 years ago, you will still make good profits.

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  • Malaysia boleh Singapore bodoh:

    Some thoughts:
    HDB officers never volunteered that important detail to buyers that their flats will be zero value at 99yo…is that item in the lease? Shouldnt it be pointed out n explained at the hdb office during the 1st sales appointment at least? If not , then it should be! Not everyone can understand the legal language in the lease. Whats more the HDB keeps the lease upon completion of saleappointments. (Mine was resale) i dunno about new homes.
    Even when buying resale hdb, the housing agent or hdb sales staff so coveniently omit that very neccessary detail..
    Want to earn ok..but must must earn honestly, right?
    So has HDB & the gov guilty of fake news?

    Singapore democracy is also FAKE.

    That Singapore is 1st World country is also a FAKE.

    That there is a free press in Singapore is also a FAKE.

    That HDB flats are a store of value is also a FAKE.

    You get the “drift”?

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  • Ah Peng Kia:

    @PC Ong, when HDB sold the flats including land costs,it should belong to the buyer. Masking lease as sales is unethical. Taking back the land and reselling without compensating the 1st buyer who paid for the land as part of the flat price in criminal. Why should those who have paid with their life savings have to beg for handouts like “1-2 years free stay”? Singaporeans pay for the roof over their heads with lifelong savings just to be made beggars by this government, is this not greed on the part of the government? Isn’t a government’s role to protect the citizens enact policies that are at least fair to the people? Otherwise, the government, with all the power it wields, is nothing but thugs out to take advantage of those living under their thumbs.

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  • Boh Bian = Boh Brain:

    What to do now?:
    HDB SELLS US “TICKING TIME BOMBS” not homes.

    Asset DEPRECIATION scheme?
    Asset DEPRECIATION TO ZERO GUARANTEED PROGRAM?

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  • HarderTruths:

    It does not really matter anymore. The pappies have made sure they will be re-elected no matter what.

    They can put all $G HDB owners on the streets – no problem. They can jail all the opposition – no problem. They can take everything citizens have – also no problem.

    Why? Because there are enough polis to handle the $G locals and FT to continue to make $G a factory. USA and EU India China will all say $G citizens are communists and should be in an ISA prison.

    $G citizens think they are smart – how smart do you have to be to live as a slave?

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  • SG:

    Oxygen,
    Private property prices are skyrocketing…
    The cooling measures didn’t work

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  • Greedy Evil Lying Hypocrites:

    There is value to HDB apartments, lot’s of value because the land has value.
    Only greedy PAP government said no value because they want to rob it from you for free and then resell the land.
    Rather than sharing the wealth, because you paid for the land and costs of everything and maintenance, evil PAP robbed you by systematically changing the game rule , because they can, without any checks in parliament.
    This will not be the only thing PAP steals from you and it won’t be the last. Your CPF is graduately eroded and gone.
    They paid themselves billions, legalized corruption and with easy money they gambled with reserves, created huge loses.
    No one knows the state of reserves except the familee. This is kleptocracy.
    You can get back your cpf and HDB by removing the evil PAP.
    Never fall again to their wayangs and lip services.
    Seek the truth yourselves by opening and checking the books.
    These greedy evil self serving thieves need to pay for their crimes.
    Kick them all out!

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  • Kick PAP out:

    Some thoughts:
    HDB officers never volunteered that important detail to buyers that their flats will be zero value at 99yo…is that item in the lease? Shouldnt it be pointed out n explained at the hdb office during the 1st sales appointment at least? If not , then it should be! Not everyone can understand the legal language in the lease. Whats more the HDB keeps the lease upon completion of saleappointments. (Mine was resale) i dunno about new homes.
    Even when buying resale hdb, the housing agent or hdb sales staff so coveniently omit that very neccessary detail..
    Want to earn ok..but must must earn honestly, right?
    So has HDB & the gov guilty of fake news?

    PAP changed the game rule as time passes. LKY is dead. GCT is still around but kept quiet. How the hdb assets enhancement scheme becomes a scam is anybody’s guess as long as GCT decided to remain quiet to cover PAP at the expense of hardworking sinkies. The SERs was intended to renew the cycle but the PAP decided to steal for free instead of sharing the Gain at the expense of sinkies.

    PAP is scheming. They think they can manipulate the situation like the MRT and selective upgrading as election carrots. This is going to backfire as people get tired of all the lies and give them the boot.
    Throw them out, get all our wealth back.

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  • Time Is Running Out:

    HarderTruths:
    It does not really matter anymore. The pappies have made sure they will be re-elected no matter what.

    They can put all $G HDB owners on the streets – no problem. They can jail all the opposition – no problem. They can take everything citizens have – also no problem.

    Why? Because there are enough polis to handle the $G locals and FT to continue to make $G a factory. USA and EU India China will all say $G citizens are communists and should be in an ISA prison.

    $G citizens think they are smart – how smart do you have to be to live as a slave?

    Sinkies can throw out the PAP government in election.

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  • Totally Amoral Corrupt Evil:

    PC Ong:
    Not true. HDB flats have a very liquid secondary market, very easy to sell. Yes, those flats with shorter remaining leases are worth less than those with longer remaining leases. As long as you have bought your flat more than 10 years ago, you will still make good profits.

    Our MND Lawrence Wong has already said this is a complex issue. If the lease gets topped up indefinitely, this will send the wrong signal to people. And there will not be enough land to recycle for our future generation.

    There are some potential solutions when lease expires:
    1) Our govt will let people stay for another 1-2 years for free, while they make plans for alternative housing. Our govt will never kick people on to the streets.
    2) Pay a token sum to top up the lease for a certain period. If you want longer lease then pay more

    Finally, even if people don’t get any money after the lease expires, it is money still well-spent because we have a very reasonable amount to stay in very high-quality public housing for 99 years. In addition, most Singaporeans have ample cash savings and don’t rely much on cashing out their HDB to fund retirement.

    This is talking cock. If PAP wanted the people to rent, then it should be set out that way in the first place and should not lie to the people. All upkeeping costs and land cost and burden are placed on the people, this is evil and dishonest. This is no different from buying an apartment. In the end, the HDB dwellers should get the share of the wealth they put in. The bubble inflated because greedy PAP overpriced the land by benchmarking everything to CBD. Woody Goh is the direct culprit as it happened during his rein. Many critics already pointed this out in the past. This is akeen to robbing future value to current use. The current HDB dwellers are in fact paying for future value of HDB upfront, all the more they should be compensated. Why should these people be left in the lurch by PAP incompetence and laziness in policy.

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  • Dumb and dumber:

    Someone please change Description of Singapore in wikipedia. Sinkiepoor is a democratic country that votes to devalue their properties and make themselves poor.

    Malaysia : A country that has woken up from its stupidity and making huge gains for their citizens.

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  • oxygen:

    @ SG

    YOU ARE MISTAKEN – take a look at SG property price index. It actually PEAKED in 2011/2012. It is public information if you do your research on the internet.

    SG: Oxygen,
    Private property prices are skyrocketing…
    The cooling measures didn’t work

    Here is my proof – from Straits Times dated May of 2015, no less. This is about 3 years after the property cooling measures introduced when property price peaked as I asserted in this thread.

    Loss-making property transactions on the rise in Singapore.

    https://www.straitstimes.com/business/loss-making-property-transactions-on-the-rise-in-singapore

    And this is only realisable NOMINAL price relative to costs of purchase – NOT COUNTING TRANSACTION COSTS AND PENALTIES OF PAPpys property cooling measures introduced in 2011/2012. It also have NOT factored into the interest financing costs of outstanding mortgage of perhaps 1.5% to 2% per annum (translating to 4.5% to 6% in that holding period). Factored all in, it must have been at least 8% LOSS ON TOP OF THE NOMINAL CAPITAL LOSS (the difference between the buy/sell price differential). That is to say, those who bought in 2011/2012 and sold in 2015 must have lost SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY EXCEEDING 8% of transaction, anti-cooling penalties and mortgage financing.

    Most of the recent two years in Sentosa Cove condos – whoa, prime waterfront luxury property, lost their pants and something else too.

    And yes,, developers are asking higher and higher, GUNDOOS got sucked in, no surprise in there. But it is NOT the market when prices of existing condos, including prime waterfront one, are falling with fools (who once also thought they are very smart buying Sentosa Cove condos and Tanjong Rhu waterfront properties) taking big losses.

    And we are seeing the repeats of the same lunatic stupidity now. Look at recent en blocs craze, developer paid through their noses for inflated land prices. How do they survive and seeking to prosper from risks undertaking?
    Build higher adding to more units, SHRINK SIZES AND PRICED UP PER SQUARE FOOT ASKING PRICES. So buyers are asked to cough up more money PSF BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN PROPERTY MARKET RECOVERS. It is a MIRAGE – just like Sentosa Cove. Sure some transaction for dummies took place, property index perk up BUT A LOT OF CONDOS ARE DARK AT NIGHT after hours – UNSOLD. And existing buyers sitting on massive losses as SELLERS FIND NO BUYER when they need cash. These are suckers of illusion of wonder property bubble.

    STRAITS TIMES ARTILCE OF 2015 IS CORRECT – these are ACTUAL losses REALIZED – THE REAL THING.

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  • oxygen:

    @ SG

    IF YOU READ THE CNA NEWS and Lawrence Wong’s cawked talking, you would convince yourself that there is still value in older HDB flat.

    CNA/Lawrence Wong : Quoting transaction data over the past year, he said that an older 4-room flat with less than 60 years remaining on its 99-year lease would sell for around S$300,000 and a 5-room would sell for around S$400,000 in non-mature estates.

    There is still value in older HDB flats Minister for National Development Lawrence Wong.

    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/there-is-still-value-in-older-hdb-flats-minister-for-national-10243064

    I would say to both only ONE WORD – POPPYCOCK! PAPpys Fengshan MP, Chyeryl Chan won’t be able to explain this IF CNA/LAWRENCE WONG ARE CORRECT.

    Cheryl Chan, PAP MP, Fengshan :
    The MP further said that people who own older apartments find selling them to be difficult, what with a shrinking lease and a bigger number of housing units available in the markets. Buyers, on the other hand, simply deem these older apartments to be too expensive. Therefore, she argued, the value of these flats should not be based on the comparison method of former market sales.

    To ease struggling housing resale market MP proposes changes in methods of valuation for older apartments

    http://theindependent.sg/to-ease-struggling-housing-resale-market-mp-proposes-changes-in-methods-of-valuation-for-older-apartments/

    WHY IS CHERYL CHAN CORRECT?

    VERY VERY VERY SIMPLE. Lawrence Wong/CNA is quoting LAST YEAR transacted prices as benchmark of CURRENT STATE of property market. Cheryl Chan is talking about CURRENT STATE of her knowledge that retirees cannot monetize their older flat. How does Cheryl Chan knows? Obviously from her constituents feedback and feedback of the same from her fellow PAP MPs. The resale public housing market has found itself in a state of what I call ‘FROZEN FARK’ which a lot of hard driving selling actions takes place but NO EJACULATION to satisfaction!

    Every seller have to find a buyer, right? Without the buyers which Cheryl Chan, PAPpys MPs and WP MPs are aware of. WHERE IS THAT EJACULATION to allow retirees to reach estacy of monetizing their old flats and release relief of CPF imprisonment trapped in that HDB of NO VALUE?

    SO WITHOUT THE BUYERS TO CLOSE TRANSACTION, WHAT VALUE OF OLDER FLAT IS LAWRENCE WONG AND CNA IS FARTING ON?

    I say it is a mystery!

    WHO IS TALKING CAWKED? Cheryl Chan or Lawrence Wong? 2-rm Fexi is WHITE ELEPHANT!

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  • oxygen:

    @ totally Amoral Courrpt Evil

    SPOT ON, MATE. It is CAWKED TALKING. Lawrence Wong talked of 2017 historical valuation – IRRELEVANT NOW when sellers find no buyer to consummate a value (even if it is a massively shrank value today). Dr Cheong, HDB CEO is also dancing to the same tune of fiction tall tale – bravely publicly telling peasants that retirees love her HDB’s 2-rm 30 yr lease (SEXILY LABELED AS FLEXI of its innovative youthfulness?? Maybe it should be called NUBILE by HDB, sounds for seductively appealing of finding old retirees attraction? ha ha ha). I am sure with aging population, there is a shortage of demand for smaller acommodation to house one/two retirees but the 2-rm 30 year SEXY is priced sexily even more expensive per sq ft than the 5-rm BTOs which offers grants to eligible applicants. All 2-rm 30 yr lease SEXY buyers (horny old uncles???) have to pay capital gain tax first cleverly concealed and even more sexily packaged as “resale levy” AND ALSO MONETIZE their OLD CHICKEN COOPS FIRST!!

    So sad, it can’t be monetize contrary to PAPpys promise of property wonderland to fantasy heaven. PAPpys turns on a different music and dance to different lyrics now – using old valuation to bury current NO VALUE of real valuation in the face-farking reality of NO BUYER. Value is ONLY DISCOVERED AND SUBSTANTIATED when there is a buyer to consumate the advance of the seller.

    SIMPLE ECONOMICS. Genius PAPpys don’t understand this, meh?

    Totally Amoral Corrupt Evil: This is talking cock. If PAP wanted the people to rent, then it should be set out that way in the first place and should not lie to the people. All upkeeping costs and land cost and burden are placed on the people, this is evil and dishonest. This is no different from buying an apartment. In the end, the HDB dwellers should get the share of the wealth they put in. The bubble inflated because greedy PAP overpriced the land by benchmarking everything to CBD. Woody Goh is the direct culprit as it happened during his rein. Many critics already pointed this out in the past. This is akeen to robbing future value to current use. The current HDB dwellers are in fact paying for future value of HDB upfront, all the more they should be compensated. Why should these people be left in the lurch by PAP incompetence and laziness in policy.

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  • Lawrence still in Dreamland:

    Lawrence Wong simply does not understand the problem on the ground. Talk to Cheryl Chan dumbo ! Let me restate the problem to him in simple terms – Those trying to sell their old HDB flats are finding it very very difficult to find buyers, firstly because of the short lease remaining, and potential buyers’ difficulty in getting a loan to finance these old flats. If Lawrence Wong still does not wake up from his dreamland, the Lease problem will blow up in his face come 2020, and PAP will end up like BN – as HISTORY !

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  • oxygen:

    @ Lawrence still in Dreamland

    Lawrence Wong & Dr. Cheong should talk to Ms. Kuik Shao-Yin. Me thinks she is a lot smarter, far more in touch with reality and the ground than the former two combined.

    The Power of a People

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/shiao-yin-kuik/the-power-of-a-people/10156335908358427/

    Even Louis Ng who spoke out against OSSIFIED PUBLIC SERVICE got an undeserved fiack from a 4G PRETENDER for speaking up. SO SAD to note the extent OF OSSIFIED MENTALITY EXISTING IN PAPpypolitics.

    Lawrence still in Dreamland: Lawrence Wong simply does not understand the problem on the ground. Talk to Cheryl Chan dumbo ! Let me restate the problem to him in simple terms – Those trying to sell their old HDB flats are finding it very very difficult to find buyers, firstly because of the short lease remaining, and potential buyers’ difficulty in getting a loan to finance these old flats. If Lawrence Wong still does not wake up from his dreamland, the Lease problem will blow up in his face come 2020, and PAP will end up like BN – as HISTORY !

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  • Straight "A"s Marlboro Tan:

    70% are reaping the effects of their foolishness

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  • Please keep Quite:

    This is the secret every HDB owners should kept. If not, stupid FTs don’t buy our flats how. Sure die.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Ah Peng Kia

    @ PC ONG WILL MOST LIKELY HIDE INSIDE some old ladies panties and won’t come back to extend this conversation with you.

    He is KNOWINGLY TALKING CAWKED in TRE whilst you supplied him the full and frank truths.

    HOW TO TRUST PAPpypolitics like this – so steep in prevarications?

    Ah Peng Kia: @PC Ong, when HDB sold the flats including land costs,it should belong to the buyer. Masking lease as sales is unethical. Taking back the land and reselling without compensating the 1st buyer who paid for the land as part of the flat price in criminal. Why should those who have paid with their life savings have to beg for handouts like “1-2 years free stay”? Singaporeans pay for the roof over their heads with lifelong savings just to be made beggars by this government, is this not greed on the part of the government? Isn’t a government’s role to protect the citizens enact policies that are at least fair to the people? Otherwise, the government, with all the power it wields, is nothing but thugs out to take advantage of those living under their thumbs.

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  • Sg:

    Oxygen
    As you said, that was in 2015.
    How about prices in 2018 now? Properties in suburbs are making money, as prices of new launches rise by 10-30% price of existing units are re rated and marked up accordingly

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  • oxygen:

    @ SG

    THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK. New launches rise by 10% -30% of existing units are re rated and marked up accordingly?

    Sg: Oxygen
    As you said, that was in 2015.
    How about prices in 2018 now? Properties in suburbs are making money, as prices of new launches rise by 10-30% price of existing units are re rated and marked up accordingly

    I SAY TO YOU THAT YOU COULD BE RIGHT – as I am NOT a AVID follower of LEE-jiapore property market or any other in the world.

    BUT HERE IS MY REASONS WHY YOU ARE DEAD WRONG of being “right”.

    On the per sq ft basis, it HAS TO GO UP because developer PAID SWEET JUICY FOR INFLATED LAND COSTS – they also shrink the apartment size, SO ON A PER SQ FT BASIS they have to price new launching SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER to cover their land costs and provide a profit. From the buyer’s perspective, they have to pay a higher prices, IT MEANS BIGGER MORTGAGE which in my opinion DOES NOT PROVE THE EXPENSIVELY-PRICED APARTMENT prove its value and, by exension of it, his/her INCREMENTAL wealth accumulation of buying into new launches. It just prove that they paid more, signed a bigger mortgage (liability) and adds nothing to the buyer’s net worth but simply EXPANDS HIS/HER RISKS EXPOSURE of committing to a bigger loan and/or CPF injection.

    IT IS NOT WEALTH BUT MIRAGE OF WEALTH for existing units nearby. The “nearlogy” psychology works wonder of mischief and stupidity of property-mad investors. Just because someone bought an en bloc new launches nearby, I become richer i.e. existing units are re-rated and marked up accordingly? The real test of wealth is a transacted deal – the seller has to find a buyer to consumate that deal of imagined higher valuation due to “nearlogy”. If not, that gain in valuation exists only IN ONE PLACE ONLY IN ISOLATION i.e.IN YOUR MIND ONLY. You convinced yourself you are richer BUT IT IS FICTION of fairytale wealth because

    - why should you be richer because one or two or ten idiots paid more for a nearby new launches to the gain of developer

    - you didn’t gain one cent when the dumb gambler/speculator paid for the developer’s inflated land costs and needs a profit for risks taken as well.

    IF THE PROFITS SUPPLIED BY THE 10 IDIOTS GOES INTO YOUR POCKET, I AGREE YOU WOULD INDEED BE WEALTHIER.

    This is not the case in reality, 10 idiots took bigger risks, YOU DIDN’T BECOME RICHER because they are stupid idiots taking out bigger mortgage and risks. Even different apt in the same condo same size sells for different price.

    When economy tumbles and property price fall ISLAND-WIDE, ARE YOU RICHER?

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  • SG:

    Oxygen – thank you for replying
    Prices of new launches are say up by 30%.

    If you have an existing unit nearby, you can increase the price by say 10-15%, and buyers would go for your resale unit instead of the new launches , because they get at a cheaper and even bigger unit for the same price.

    That’s what I mean by existing owners benefit.

    Google Scala, average launch price was 1,150 psf, now,maybe, you can buy at 1,300-1,400 psf, that’s like a 20% quick gain and it’s not a mirage because there are actual transacted prices,

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  • oxygen:

    @ SG

    THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR CONTINUING THIS INTERESTING CONVERSATION. It is NOT wrong or surprise new launches are up on recent market bottom – simply because en bloc developers paid for inflated land prices.

    Investment is a funny animal. People chased rising stocks fearlessly and sell off after it collapsed with shaken fears. Property is no exception. Why?

    They see price as value – it is psychological – all in the mind of believer. My sibling bought a condo unit – more than a decade ago event – which I like very much overlooking the pool from her hall & bedroom. I forget how much psf but she paid $580K first round launch. Having cleared a substantial number of sales, developer asked for another $100k for next offering – extracting as much revenue/profit as the traffic will bear. She bought it “VERY CHEAP”. About 5 yrs on, her financial circumstances elevated. She upgraded to landed property in district 9 paying $1.6 mln in property slump, she sold her condo for $420K – a loss of $160K. I can’t figure out the pain of those who paid $680K. Not surprise if Scala launch price is $1,150 and may be asking now higher.

    WHICH IS ONE THE CORRECT VALUATION ? Is it $1,150 psf or higher. In a crash, it might sold for $900 psf – just like my sibling paid VERY CHEAP at $580K but sold for $420K but more than make up that loss now on her landed district 9 propery multi-fold. If she won’t take loss on her condo, she won’t have the apetite to risks a second mortgage – one deeply underwater!

    THAT DIFFERENCE IN SCALA is arbitrage opportunity of risk taking but a market turn could kill of the speculator of a property (liability) bet.

    SG: Oxygen – thank you for replying
    Prices of new launches are say up by 30%.

    If you have an existing unit nearby, you can increase the price by say 10-15%, and buyers would go for your resale unit instead of the new launches , because they get at a cheaper and even bigger unit for the same price.

    That’s what I mean by existing owners benefit.

    Google Scala, average launch price was 1,150 psf, now,maybe, you can buy at 1,300-1,400 psf, that’s like a 20% quick gain and it’s not a mirage because there are actual transacted prices,

    If you had one near Scala, would you be selling for profit and then take a BIGGER PLUNGE ON SCALA? No action no gain.

    Maybe, a gutsy investor says – YES! WHY NOT, I BET ONE AND WIN ONE! Always lucky!! My sibling was “lucky” turned “unlucky” and then “bigger lucky”

    SHE BET BIG, WIN BIG but could have ended CLEAN OUT TOO.

    PROPERTY IS LIABILITY BET. Commoditized HDB without buyer is dead bet.

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  • Fair value:

    The fair value of the flat at the end of the HDB lease should be 50% of the purchased value as the land returned to the Government.Or many will have their savings wipe off when they need it most…

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  • oxygen:

    @ Fair value

    YOU ARE DEAD WRONG, MATE, you have NOT accounted for the time value of money – that is the effect of erosion of purchasing power of money due to inflation AND THE CRUELTY IMPORT OF DECEPTIONS in PAPpys rotten asset enhancement politics scam.

    The correct fair value is WHAT THE GOVT sells of LAND COSTS to the next buyer at the end of the lease because

    - the land is returned to the Government

    - the Government is NOT ENTITLED to unjust enrichment of itself at the expense of the prior lease last holder.

    - Government SHOULD NOT BE A WEALTH EXTRACTION MACHINERY at the expense of this generation and future generation to benefit itself in the false disguise of unspecified and unsubstantiated hallucination of fictitious damage to future generation.

    - the government has a long history of hypocritical fiduciary i.e. trust us to do what is right for you, the asset enhancement scam is a rotten deception in reverse of self-interest preservation and enrichment of natural aristocrats at the expense of all peasant but now got unstuck. The peasantry accross generations must not be deceived again to bail their chicanery twice.

    Fair value: The fair value of the flat at the end of the HDB lease should be 50% of the purchased value as the land returned to the Government.Or many will have their savings wipe off when they need it most…

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  • jaywalker:

    A HDB flat is a rental unit for which you have paid all the rent upfront. Al your future earnings are tied up in paying off the rent.

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  • Extend your 99 years lease!:

    Change Gahment and we will get at least a 25 years’ extension!

    There is no need to stay put at 99 years, there is no rush to do that!

    Vote for Change and vote to keep your HDB flat for another 25 years!

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